Dead Play:5 need schematics or tips


Hi

Play:5, manufacturing date sometime around 2009, is completely dead. No light in LED.

Found several cases of this online, but no solutions.

Does anyone have any knowledge about the problem, og better yet, schematics..

I mainly suspect problem in switch mode power supply. Have only done very basic measuring, but I find 220VAC on primary side, no power on secondary side. I think about ordering a mosfet, and/or a diode I suspect, but if I had schematics I could do some more pinpointing..

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Hi,

I have a new problem with my play 5.

2 components were blown Q27507/Q27502.

2 components shorted, Q27509/27503.

I think the part numbers are 34N B1. What are these? Mosfet? Appreciate it if anyone can share the part numbers of that 4 components in yellow box. Thks!

 

On my board, all 4 of those components are the same, and are labelled DMB B8.  That is a DMP3098L (P-CHANNEL ENHANCEMENT MODE MOSFET  https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/405103/DIODES/DMP3098L.html?)

The really weird part though is that “34N” is a different device!  That’s an N-channel mosfet:  https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds31787.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks Tim. You are truly helpful. Looking thru the datasheet, the Q27509/Q27503 on my board is indeed 34N B1, same marking placement as well. I am guessing those 2 blown would be the same.

Looking at my board again, only Q27515/Q27504 are labeled as DMB AN.

The rest like Q27203/Q27205/Q27303/Q27205 are all 34N B1

Fingers cross, thanks.

Userlevel 4
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Hi,

I have a new problem with my play 5.

2 components were blown Q27507/Q27502.

2 components shorted, Q27509/27503.

I think the part numbers are 34N B1. What are these? Mosfet? Appreciate it if anyone can share the part numbers of that 4 components in yellow box. Thks!

 

On my board, all 4 of those components are the same, and are labelled DMB B8.  That is a DMP3098L (P-CHANNEL ENHANCEMENT MODE MOSFET  https://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/405103/DIODES/DMP3098L.html?)

The really weird part though is that “34N” is a different device!  That’s an N-channel mosfet:  https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds31787.pdf

Good luck!

Thanks Tim. You are truly helpful. Looking thru the datasheet, the Q27509/Q27503 on my board is indeed 34N B1, same marking placement as well. I am guessing those 2 blown would be the same.

Looking at my board again, only Q27515/Q27504 are labeled as DMB AN.

The rest like Q27203/Q27205/Q27303/Q27205 are all 34N B1

Fingers cross, thanks.

I opened up another PLay:5.

The two on the right are 34n, and the two on the left are DMB.  When I read the first board, I had confirmation bias as I was expecting to see DMB, and I was looking through a bunch of glue residue.  Those are indeed 34N as well.

This actually makes a lot of sense -- there should be both N and P channel to drive the speaker.

Sorry I misled you.  I hope you see this before ordering parts!

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Thanks Tim. I have not order the parts yet. 😀 will place an order for both 34N and DMB. Cheers!!

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I just had a success fixing a dead play:5 so thought I’d share it.  The device would not boot up. When I measured the voltage driving the PWM chip, I found it was ramping slowly from 7-8V up to about 19V, then dropping back to 7-8V and repeating.  The frequency of this was about 3-4 seconds.

I found a 10 ohm resistor that was open (R27797).  I replaced it with another 10 ohm and the device now works.  I only had a much much larger wattage resistor, but it got the job done.  Images are attached.

I had some other dead boards with the exact same ramping of voltage.  Unfortunately when I checked them, none of them had the same failure.  Hopefully this can help someone else though!

R27797 replacement

 

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SO… My success 2 days ago inspired me to have another look at the two other dead units that I have.

I found a common problem to both of them, and got both working!

I had looked at everything in the high voltage section of the power supply, and couldn’t find any bad components.  Despite this, the devices were both not working, and on closer inspection were resetting about once every 5 seconds… There was power ramping up, and just as it hit 20V in the driver power to the IC, it would fall back to 10V or so and start over. This is a problem that others have had on this forum (and in this thread).

I looked at the datasheet for the PWM (ICE2QS02G), and realized that I had not checked the feedback section of the circuit.  This is the bit on the ‘other side’ of the opto-isolator.  Most of this part of the circuit is buried in glue, but sure enough, when I checked the resistors there, both of my devices had bad resistors in the same spot!  The resistor in question is a very small surface mount, with the marking “68b”.  Looking in the EIA listings , this is a 4.99k resistor.  Both of my devices had open resistors.  I added 1/8 watt 4.7k resistors (I didn’t have 5k), and lo and behold both devices now work.

The lower value resistor did have the effect of making the device run at 13V/26V instead of 12V/24V.  I don’t see this as a problem, as there are several EH31 regulators on the board, and the only thing (I think) that would be driven directly by these voltages would be the actual audio amplifiers.  Those should be tolerant.

Bad resistor -- preventing boot
new resistor -- fixed boot issue and device works great now!

 

I have two broken Play:5 units and when i check the “68b” resistor on them one reads 4.5 kOhm and the other one reads 12 kOhm, could the one that reads 12 kOhm create the problem you describe @timc995 ?

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Hi Dr_Phil.

Yes, if that resistor isn’t reading 4.5k, it will definitely affect the voltages.  I would say though, it is rare in my experience for a failure like that.  Resistors usually short out entirely, or blow open.  Landing somewhere in the middle (like 12k) is unusual.  It could be that the chip is actually ‘open’, but you are getting some other resistance measurement from the circuit itself.

I lost my info where I reverse engineered that part of the circuit, but the usual way that it works is that there is a reference voltage, and a feedback loop.  A simple voltage divider is made on the output voltages, and that voltage is compared to the reference voltage.  Often it is something like Vout=Vref*(1+V1/V2).  Vref would depend on a chosen reference voltage elsewhere on the board, and the circuit designer chooses V1 and V2 to get the desired output.  SO… If you are getting 12k instead of 4.5V, then your circuit is probably generating something like 5v/10v, instead of the required 12v/24v.

If you have a voltmeter, you can check what’s happening to the output voltages.  Also, you would ideally test that bad chip after removing it from the circuit, but these are so small that it may be impossible to remove it without damaging it.

Great, i will try to measure the voltage and see if the result could guide me.

Great, i will try to measure the voltage and see if the result could guide me.

Short circuit Player 5.

Dr Phil, your latest Post. Sorry I can’t find a “New Post” button on this page. Have to ride on yours.

Dead Player 5. Blown fuse. Installed larger fuse - tripped kitchen supply. Tested 8ohms across mains input. De-soldered/pulled one leg of the 2nd right-hand green filter coil (facing mains plug). Short cct now moved to bridge-rectifier. Meaning: replace the blown fuse but don’t waste time checking onward components to rectifier. It’s the 4-pin big black rectangular bastard behind the fat capacitor to the right.

Do not be dissuaded, have patients. Detach hot-glued components with drips of Isopropyl Alcohol bit by bit with screwdriver, easy-peasy. Firstly remove fat capacitor (notice white -ve polarity position). Second: the 4 rectifier legs. High class Sonos pcb (board) needs high temp narrow soldering iron bit. De-soldering braid and solder flux if you have it. Medium screwdriver leverage of component against board.

Yes, ESR tested both fat caps OK. Others too. Gonna replace bridge rectifier and fat caps. Awaiting delivery. And Comments / advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Short-circuit Player 5

Dead Player 5. Blown fuse. Installed larger fuse - tripped kitchen power supply. Tested 8ohms across mains input. De-soldered/pulled one leg of the 2nd right-hand green filter coil (facing mains plug). Short cct now moved to bridge-rectifier. Meaning: replace the blown fuse (small brown cylinder behind power input socket) but don’t waste time checking onward components to rectifier. It’s the 4-pin big black rectangular bastard behind first fat capacitor to the right of power input socket. 

Do not be dissuaded, have patients. Detach hot-glue from components with drips of Isopropyl Alcohol bit-by-bit with screwdriver, easy-peasy. Firstly remove fat capacitor (notice white -ve polarity position). Second: the 4 rectifier legs. High class Sonos pcb (board) needs high temp narrow soldering iron bit.

Use de-soldering braid and solder flux if you have it. Medium screwdriver leverage of component against board.

Yes, ESR tested both fat caps OK. Others too. Gonna replace bridge rectifier and fat caps. Awaiting delivery and, your Comments / advice.

It's just a damn psu. 
Strange that none of you 'tronics boffins have risen to the challenge of reverse engineering the Play 5 psu schematics.
A hand-drawn scribbled diagram, that ain't gonna offend our masters. SONOS might even
appreciate the good-will benefit of allowing it in these pages. Otherwise we're all still buzzing around like flies circling meat in plastic film, cursing their product brand telling others to avoid it.

Hi,

Thought I would add some information to this thread since it helped me resurrect a dead play 5 gen 1.

A few months ago my father informed me that one of his two play 5 speakers was completely dead. After browsing the internet we found that the fuse and rectifier could be possible causes. We opened the speaker and found that fuse was still intact. Some more browsing led us to this thread with other possible causes for a dead speaker. None of the earlier mentioned resistors etc. seemed to be the issue in our unit. Then after randomly measuring resistors with a multimeter I found R27793 near one of the big capacitors being open. 1203 is printed on the resistor and according to this page that means 120 kΩ.

R27793 was measured being open

A new 120 kΩ resistor was then soldered to the board and now the speaker is working again. :smile:

New resistor soldered to the board

Hopefully this can be of some help if someone else would have the same issue. :slight_smile:

I just had a success fixing a dead play:5 so thought I’d share it.  The device would not boot up. When I measured the voltage driving the PWM chip, I found it was ramping slowly from 7-8V up to about 19V, then dropping back to 7-8V and repeating.  The frequency of this was about 3-4 seconds.

I found a 10 ohm resistor that was open (R27797).  I replaced it with another 10 ohm and the device now works.  I only had a much much larger wattage resistor, but it got the job done.  Images are attached.

I had some other dead boards with the exact same ramping of voltage.  Unfortunately when I checked them, none of them had the same failure.  Hopefully this can help someone else though!

R27797 replacement

 

Thanks Tim,

Replacing this resistor and a 120k resistor near the ac filters fixed my dead play 5.

Tom

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Hi guys,

 

can someone tell me, what parts are the following and what I need to replace?

 

R27817

C27852

C27855

 

They are burned.

Hi guys,

 

can someone tell me, what parts are the following and what I need to replace?

 

R27817

C27852

C27855

 

They are burned.

100ohm

0.1nF(maybe)

2.9nF(maybe)

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How mich W must have the resistor or doesnt care?

How mich W must have the resistor or doesnt care?

maybe 0.1w or below,i guess

Hello, thanks for the picture.

I have-it fixed finally but I do not know the cause. Here it is in words and pictures:

First, small cap (C27854) is not charging from the AC side, those are probably discharge resistors to the remaining capacity in the filtering caps. It’s another mechanism I could not figure out. The C27854 is providing power to the ICE2QS02 driver chip. It goes thru all those small diodes and caps on the edge of the board. The normal behavior on the voltage for C27854 is that is charging up to around 20V slowly and then ( some of those diodes and transistors do that) turns on the power on the ICE2QS02. 

Once the chip is starting the voltage is self sustaining to around 13 V, I do not understand from where, maybe from the fly back transformer winding itself. 

So for me the challenge was to produce the charging of the C27854 up to 20 to start up the IC. I did this by putting 2 390Kohm from the + on the big caps. I monitor the voltage and it’s ramping up slow, like a second or two. After it reaches 20V the IC starts and it self sustain to 13V. It’s 3 days already and still works! meaning there is no other fail. There was no problem in the fuse or rectifier, nothing burned. As you can see the LED turns on with the 2 resistors soldered. This is the story of this fix.

The 2 390Kohm resistors from plus to C27854
Final resistors placement
Final result, The power led turns ON!

 

I have no power on pin 7 on ICE2QS02 and when i measure on C27854 it goes from 9 to 18 VDC in a 2-3 second loop, is this the same behaviour as you had?

i have the same problem, pin7 no power(0.1 or 0.5v), c27854 get loop vdc,have you fixed the problem by use putting 2 390Kohm from the + on the big caps?

 

Hello, thanks for the picture.

I have-it fixed finally but I do not know the cause. Here it is in words and pictures:

First, small cap (C27854) is not charging from the AC side, those are probably discharge resistors to the remaining capacity in the filtering caps. It’s another mechanism I could not figure out. The C27854 is providing power to the ICE2QS02 driver chip. It goes thru all those small diodes and caps on the edge of the board. The normal behavior on the voltage for C27854 is that is charging up to around 20V slowly and then ( some of those diodes and transistors do that) turns on the power on the ICE2QS02. 

Once the chip is starting the voltage is self sustaining to around 13 V, I do not understand from where, maybe from the fly back transformer winding itself. 

So for me the challenge was to produce the charging of the C27854 up to 20 to start up the IC. I did this by putting 2 390Kohm from the + on the big caps. I monitor the voltage and it’s ramping up slow, like a second or two. After it reaches 20V the IC starts and it self sustain to 13V. It’s 3 days already and still works! meaning there is no other fail. There was no problem in the fuse or rectifier, nothing burned. As you can see the LED turns on with the 2 resistors soldered. This is the story of this fix.

The 2 390Kohm resistors from plus to C27854
Final resistors placement
Final result, The power led turns ON!

 

I have no power on pin 7 on ICE2QS02 and when i measure on C27854 it goes from 9 to 18 VDC in a 2-3 second loop, is this the same behaviour as you had?

a normal board ,the C27854 is 15VDC, the pin 7 on ice2qs02 is 1.5 VDC

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Hi guys,

 

can someone tell me, what parts are the following and what I need to replace?

 

R27817

C27852

C27855

 

They are burned.

100ohm

0.1nF(maybe)

2.9nF(maybe)

Does it matter, how mich V the capacitor must have? And maybe means, i cannot  measur up an SMD capacitor ?

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And can someone tell me, what size of smd resistors they are, I can't measure up this size

I’ve just been repairing one of these, using many of the tips here.  Some observations for those following in the footsteps of many:

I had a blown fuse, then needed to track down what else was faulty.  Replaced fuse with same type. I thought the DC measurements were suggesting a problem with the MOSFET switch, so I changed that out with another N-Channel of similar value I had on hand.  The Dim Bulb Tester indicated there was still something wrong, but interestingly I was getting some useful DC voltages. My DC measurements of the bridge rectifier didn’t suggest it was faulty, so I pressed on. Decided to try plugging directly in to the mains. Big mistake. Loud explosion as the fuse self-destructed.
So stepping back I decided to use a process of elimination.  I removed both 100uF charge capacitors.  Replaced fuse, connected Dim Bulb Tester, still showed excess current.  I then removed the bride rectifier and replaced with another I had on hand.  Success: no more large current drain.
I intend changing out the 100UF caps with high quality brand, as well as the electro caps on the cold side.

But this failure of the bridge rectifier is a weird one.  I fix Switched Mode Power Supplies a fair bit.  Bridge rectifiers either go short or open circuit.  It’s as if this is failing under mains voltage?
Anyway, that bridge rectifier is a bugger to get out.  Removing the two 100uF caps gave better access to be able leverage it out whilst hitting it with the soldering iron (after having previously used a desoldering gun on those terminals).

 

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Hi guys,

 

can someone tell me, what parts are the following and what I need to replace?

 

R27817

C27852

C27855

 

They are burned.

100ohm

0.1nF(maybe)

2.9nF(maybe)

So what does it mean "maybe"? Can't I measure up an SMD capacitor or what?

Userlevel 4
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Hi guys,

 

can someone tell me, what parts are the following and what I need to replace?

 

R27817

C27852

C27855

 

They are burned.

100ohm

0.1nF(maybe)

2.9nF(maybe)

So what does it mean "maybe"? Can't I measure up an SMD capacitor or what?

For what it’s worth, I tried measuring these in circuit with my Fluke 87V.  I got 0 for C27852, and 2.0nF for C27855.  I imagine that the 0nF reading is due to the measurement being done in circuit.

Anything with this low a capacitance is going to be a filter cap, and I’m pretty sure you can just go with a low value (or maybe even no capacitor) and it would be fine.  I had a look at the eval board application note, and I don’t even see these caps in that circuit diagram https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-ApplicationNote_EvaluationBoard_80W_SMPS_QR_PWM_Controller_ICE2QS02G%20-AN-v01_00-EN.pdf?fileId=db3a30431a5c32f2011abefae1533bcd

 

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Ok I understand. So you mean that I could only use one capacitor with 2 or 3nf instead of the 2 SMD capacitors?

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