Can someone please illustrate - or explain - more clearly/specifically how one would go about actually WIRING together several impedance matching volume control units connected to one zoneplayer?
I've seen the wiring schematics for connecting 4 speakers to a ZP (without any volume controls), and I've seen the links for various impedance matching volume controls (IMVCs), but I can't seem to find a detailed explanation of how one would actually CONNECT 2-3 different IMVCs, from beginning to end.
Any clarification/help/links appreciated!
Wiring for multiple impedance matching volume controls
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hanesian,
Each control has an "input" and an "output" connector, sometimes marked "amplifier" and "speakers" respectively. The ZonePlayer should be connected to the "input". Be careful about (+) and (-). The (+) terminals are connected to the Red terminal on the ZonePlayer and the speakers.
If you dig around, you can find four conductor wire. Any audio store that has done more than one installation will have this wire on hand. I recommend #16 (1.29mm) wire. Some audio stores will insist that you use #14 (1.63mm) wire. While this is not wrong, it is a bit harder to work with at the controls. #12 (2.05mm) wire is too large for any of the controls that I have used and it is MUCH more difficult to manage.
Use the four conductor wire from the ZonePlayers to the controls, it is a great way to keep things organized. The wires are usually Red, Black, White, and Green. I recommend using the following convention -- Red: (+ right), Black: (- right), White: (+ left) Green: (- left).
One can carefully twist four strands of #16 (1.29mm) wire and stuff them into a ZonePlayer's speaker terminals. A great little organizer is the XANTECH CB18.
Each control has an "input" and an "output" connector, sometimes marked "amplifier" and "speakers" respectively. The ZonePlayer should be connected to the "input". Be careful about (+) and (-). The (+) terminals are connected to the Red terminal on the ZonePlayer and the speakers.
If you dig around, you can find four conductor wire. Any audio store that has done more than one installation will have this wire on hand. I recommend #16 (1.29mm) wire. Some audio stores will insist that you use #14 (1.63mm) wire. While this is not wrong, it is a bit harder to work with at the controls. #12 (2.05mm) wire is too large for any of the controls that I have used and it is MUCH more difficult to manage.
Use the four conductor wire from the ZonePlayers to the controls, it is a great way to keep things organized. The wires are usually Red, Black, White, and Green. I recommend using the following convention -- Red: (+ right), Black: (- right), White: (+ left) Green: (- left).
One can carefully twist four strands of #16 (1.29mm) wire and stuff them into a ZonePlayer's speaker terminals. A great little organizer is the XANTECH CB18.
Thanks for the clarification, buzz. A follow up question or two if you don't mind.
First, would I be right in assuming that if I wanted to run 3 separate volume controls/speaker pairs off of 1 ZP, I would pretty much NEED something like the Xantech CB18? Hard to imagine connecting 3 pairs of even 16 gauge wire to a ZP.
If that's the case, do you happen to know of a connector like the CB18 that handles fewer than 8 sets of speakers and costs a bit less? Or is that pretty much the only choice even if you won't use more than half the connectors?
Obviously once you start adding up the cost of multiple connectors like this, plus the impedance matching volume controls, etc. it starts approximating the cost of just adding another ZP. I guess that gets back to reinforcing what a decent value the Sonos sytem is, but I was hoping to supplement my four zones with a couple of rarely used part time zones (a patio and laundry room).
Thanks again for any clarification.
First, would I be right in assuming that if I wanted to run 3 separate volume controls/speaker pairs off of 1 ZP, I would pretty much NEED something like the Xantech CB18? Hard to imagine connecting 3 pairs of even 16 gauge wire to a ZP.
If that's the case, do you happen to know of a connector like the CB18 that handles fewer than 8 sets of speakers and costs a bit less? Or is that pretty much the only choice even if you won't use more than half the connectors?
Obviously once you start adding up the cost of multiple connectors like this, plus the impedance matching volume controls, etc. it starts approximating the cost of just adding another ZP. I guess that gets back to reinforcing what a decent value the Sonos sytem is, but I was hoping to supplement my four zones with a couple of rarely used part time zones (a patio and laundry room).
Thanks again for any clarification.
hanesian,
For some reason there is a little resistance against the "last" ZonePlayer, even though they are VERY cost effective. In my opinion, users sometimes spend more money, time, and trouble to install the controls, than simply purchasing another ZonePlayer. Further, if the user moves to another location, the ZonePlayers are more portable than the controls.
If the CB18 seems more expensive than it is worth, just stuff the three #16's. Other solutions that I have seen are more expensive than the CB18 and are messier. The beauty of the CB18 is that the connections unplug. This makes diagnosing problems a snap.
If you have the crimp tool (I don't recommend the $10.00 tools) and don't mind a little "mess" and the idea that you may need to try a few times before you figure out all of the details, you can join four #16's with a yellow crimp "splice". (The 4th #16 connects to the Zone Player).
For some reason there is a little resistance against the "last" ZonePlayer, even though they are VERY cost effective. In my opinion, users sometimes spend more money, time, and trouble to install the controls, than simply purchasing another ZonePlayer. Further, if the user moves to another location, the ZonePlayers are more portable than the controls.
If the CB18 seems more expensive than it is worth, just stuff the three #16's. Other solutions that I have seen are more expensive than the CB18 and are messier. The beauty of the CB18 is that the connections unplug. This makes diagnosing problems a snap.
If you have the crimp tool (I don't recommend the $10.00 tools) and don't mind a little "mess" and the idea that you may need to try a few times before you figure out all of the details, you can join four #16's with a yellow crimp "splice". (The 4th #16 connects to the Zone Player).
I agree with you on the relative costs/benefits of another ZP, but I'm not sure I followed what you were saying exactly in this last paragraph, buzz. Could you help me out a bit more here?
Which crimp tool are you referring to that might join four #16s with a yellow crimp splice? I have more experience with computer cabling & crimping than audio cabling, so I'm a bit slow on the draw here!
hanesian,
Your networking crimp tool is not appropriate in this context.
In the electrical supply section of hardware or automotive stores, you'll see a different selection of compression ("crimp") fittings. They usually have the terminals and a cheap tool. Better tools are in the $50+ range and the best are a few hundred dollars. I recommend the "ratchet" tools. This variety will not allow the tool's jaws to open until the crimp is complete.
Cheap tools and cheap crimp terminals are a bust. A well done crimp is very reliable. Usually the wire will break before the crimp will fail. Crimps also tolerate high vibration.
---
Edit: Note that I am not suggesting that using the yellow crimps in the fashion that I described in my previous post is sanctioned as "proper" use of the technology by the crimp gods, however, the technique will work if you are careful.
Your networking crimp tool is not appropriate in this context.
In the electrical supply section of hardware or automotive stores, you'll see a different selection of compression ("crimp") fittings. They usually have the terminals and a cheap tool. Better tools are in the $50+ range and the best are a few hundred dollars. I recommend the "ratchet" tools. This variety will not allow the tool's jaws to open until the crimp is complete.
Cheap tools and cheap crimp terminals are a bust. A well done crimp is very reliable. Usually the wire will break before the crimp will fail. Crimps also tolerate high vibration.
---
Edit: Note that I am not suggesting that using the yellow crimps in the fashion that I described in my previous post is sanctioned as "proper" use of the technology by the crimp gods, however, the technique will work if you are careful.
Thanks buzz. I appreciate your time and help.
A follow-up to my earlier question that buzz was nice enough to help me with. I thought I understood, but now that it's time to wire everything up, I'm still confused. Any additional help would be appreciated.
Basically, I just want to run two pair of 8 ohm speakers - one pair in the kitchen and one pair in the laundry room immediately below the kitchen - off one ZP. I understand I could probably run both pairs off one ZP without a VC, but since I want to be able to control the volume in the laundry room on those occasions when we wish to listen in that room I bought an impedance matching volume control for the laundry room. Most of the time they'll be off, but when we're doing laundry, we'll turn them on.
In this scenario do I only wire the laundry room speakers to the VC, and keep the kitchen speakers wired directly to the ZP? Or do both pairs of speakers need to be connected to the VC? In other words, does only one pair of speakers go to the VC, or both pairs?
And while I'm at it, why in the world does Niles not bother providing ANY useful wiring diagram with their products?!
Appreciate any help!
Basically, I just want to run two pair of 8 ohm speakers - one pair in the kitchen and one pair in the laundry room immediately below the kitchen - off one ZP. I understand I could probably run both pairs off one ZP without a VC, but since I want to be able to control the volume in the laundry room on those occasions when we wish to listen in that room I bought an impedance matching volume control for the laundry room. Most of the time they'll be off, but when we're doing laundry, we'll turn them on.
In this scenario do I only wire the laundry room speakers to the VC, and keep the kitchen speakers wired directly to the ZP? Or do both pairs of speakers need to be connected to the VC? In other words, does only one pair of speakers go to the VC, or both pairs?
And while I'm at it, why in the world does Niles not bother providing ANY useful wiring diagram with their products?!
Appreciate any help!
+9my understanding is that you CAN use a VC on only one set but that in all likelyhood you would rather use both. Since Sonos can support 2 sets of 8ohm speakers, you would just make sure that whatever setting you left on the 1 set coming through the VC would not change this negatively. however, this is going to mean that while you can change the volume separately at one zone (say, the laundry room) and effectively even mute it, you would not ever be able to play music in the laundry room without it also being on in the kitchen, and at a relatively decent volume since you would need to have it up somewhat for the other one to be audible. If this suits you then I suppose you can save $75 and some wiring.
not that I have tried, but any more than 2 pairs of speakers and you don't have this option. so having 2 sets wired directly and a 3rd set through a VC would not be recommended.
not that I have tried, but any more than 2 pairs of speakers and you don't have this option. so having 2 sets wired directly and a 3rd set through a VC would not be recommended.
I recommend using a volume control for ALL or NONE. As Ubertaffy mentions, using a control on one, some, but not all speakers, makes the speakers without controls difficult to live with. Generally, the speakers without controls are too loud.
If one wanted to pay close attention to speaker specs and room size, then do some math, one could possibly eliminate one control, however, this procedure will most likely not be able to anticipate a change in mood.
If one wanted to pay close attention to speaker specs and room size, then do some math, one could possibly eliminate one control, however, this procedure will most likely not be able to anticipate a change in mood.
Thanks for the clarification. I somehow had it in my mind that the VC worked as some form of switch as well, with both pairs of speakers connecting to the one VC. Now I need to decide if I still want to go this route or, with the recent introduction of the S5 maybe just get one of those for the occasionally used rooms.
I may have a couple new Niles volume controls to sell once this is all done with!
I may have a couple new Niles volume controls to sell once this is all done with!
Related question below the line; above line describes main floor wiring:
House was wired at construction. We are second owners and previous owners audio components were taken with them.
Have done my best to understand the wiring in the home, and for our main floor is as follows:
2 deck ceiling speakers: we recently replaced with Polk RC80i: 8 ohm
2 great room ceiling speakers: 6" diameter. unlabeled: would assume 8 ohm as likely mid grade speaker (not high end)
2 master bedroom ceiling speakers: same as great room speakers
All with impedance matching volume controls. The great room also has an on/off push button switch next to the rotary dial. I have attempted to educate myself on these. and appear appropriately set for having the 6 speakers. However, I feel most unclear about my understanding of the settings on these.
________
Application: I set up one connect:amp to the deck and great room speakers. the bedroom wires will not fit into the amp, probably need a connecting block, but also wanted to make sure that I do not overload the amp.
The result: rooms both play music that sounds good. BUT: the deck speakers need the Sonos app volume AND volume control volume turned to halfway point to be heard; one of the two turned up further to be louder; and are very loud at max volume.
Comparatively: the great room music is loud (not ear damaging) with the sonos app volume at half and the volume control at lowest point. when app volume turned up, can even still pay through the speakers when I shut off the on/off push button.
Finally THE QUESTION: why the drastic difference in the volume between the two rooms?
(have checked 3 times meticulously the wiring of the deck speakers from the speaker to the VC and the VC to the amp and it is definitely correct). Thanks for any help or ideas.
House was wired at construction. We are second owners and previous owners audio components were taken with them.
Have done my best to understand the wiring in the home, and for our main floor is as follows:
2 deck ceiling speakers: we recently replaced with Polk RC80i: 8 ohm
2 great room ceiling speakers: 6" diameter. unlabeled: would assume 8 ohm as likely mid grade speaker (not high end)
2 master bedroom ceiling speakers: same as great room speakers
All with impedance matching volume controls. The great room also has an on/off push button switch next to the rotary dial. I have attempted to educate myself on these. and appear appropriately set for having the 6 speakers. However, I feel most unclear about my understanding of the settings on these.
________
Application: I set up one connect:amp to the deck and great room speakers. the bedroom wires will not fit into the amp, probably need a connecting block, but also wanted to make sure that I do not overload the amp.
The result: rooms both play music that sounds good. BUT: the deck speakers need the Sonos app volume AND volume control volume turned to halfway point to be heard; one of the two turned up further to be louder; and are very loud at max volume.
Comparatively: the great room music is loud (not ear damaging) with the sonos app volume at half and the volume control at lowest point. when app volume turned up, can even still pay through the speakers when I shut off the on/off push button.
Finally THE QUESTION: why the drastic difference in the volume between the two rooms?
(have checked 3 times meticulously the wiring of the deck speakers from the speaker to the VC and the VC to the amp and it is definitely correct). Thanks for any help or ideas.
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