The higher the number, the more work has been put in by Trueplay; with a Sub in a corner, I have seen 14.9.



I don't think it matter which Apple device is used and the waving is to be done as shown in the video, aimed at the surrounding walls and also to some extent at the speaker from different places in the listening position. I don't think that this is a very precisely defined set of actions. So, don't overthink it.

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I only ask about the waving process because on my kitchen play 1 it's always crap after tuning. There is bass distortion. Every time. It's not there with Trueplay off. I even swapped the bedroom/kitchen play 1's around and it did the same thing.



I've also called support here in Australia and asked about how to "wave" and you get different answers on different days. I don't think anyone at sonos really knows how it works.



I asked about the apple devices because I get different results depending on whether I use my iPad or iPhone.



As for the demo video, she spends most of the time pointing away from the walls into the room at the direction of the speaker. Never at the floor. Yet support told me to point from top corner all the way down to bottom corner where the wall meets the floor. Which is it?



As for the listening position, if my setup is at one end of a room should I ignore the other end and just not go near it? Sonos website says cover all of the room, reviewers say sonos told them to concentrate a little/lot on the listening position - depending on which review you read.



Then I watched a video of a sonos employee on YouTube demo it for a review magazine and she was waving her iPad around like a hurricane. Do that at home and it tells you stop waving it so much.



Sonos need to do a video showing exactly how it should be done. No edits! Showing from top down. Also showing different room configurations - L shaped lounge rooms for example. Their would be a best practice for those rooms that is different to a square or rectangular room.



The iPhone 7 has 2 mics. Do both listen or just one? Will holding your hand over the camera mic cause irregular readings?



How am I doing on the not overthinking LOL

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it's always crap after tuning. There is bass distortion. Every time. It's not there with Trueplay off.

How am I doing on the not overthinking LOL

Overthinking: Bass distortion has nothing to do with how tuning is done, it is a defect of some kind. Send a diagnostic to Sonos when you hear it distorting, and quote the diagnostic number here.

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It is directly related to Trueplay I've been through tech support and their answer was "just turn off Trueplay "



I can put the play 1 in any other room in the house and there is no distortion after trueplay tuning. As soon as you put it back in the kitchen - distortion after tuning.

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If you want to do more than turn it off, submit a diagnostic when it is distorting. And let Sonos Support respond here.

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PS: Not liking the post true play sound, and it distorting are two different things. The first is subjective and may be the case, the second rarely so. Distortion is clearly unpleasant, if of the kind you refer to.

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I am highly aware of what distortion is. The woofer is displaying over excursion which causes distortion and then the DSP pulls it back into line. It is reproducible. It's nothing to do with my not liking the result.

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I understand you're trying to help and i thank you. But I really need Sonos to stand up and answer my questions. I've tried tech support in Australia for a few issues and they just say "oh we are only really able to help with networking"

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Does Sonos even have their tech support located in Australia? No idea, hence the question. But they do respond here to submitted diagnostics, hence the suggestion.

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Yes they have tech support in a few countries

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The 'bass popping' behaviour with a Trueplay tuned PLAY:1 has been reported before. There are a few threads.



This appears to occur when TP reinforces the bass due to speaker/room layout. One suspects that the bass is already heavily EQ'd to give the small speaker decent bass extension and the TP enhancement is sometimes sufficient to drive the signal into clipping. It sounds a bit like a drive unit hitting the limits of its excursion. Since it's independent of volume level any clipping must occur upstream.



Sonos seem to take the line that there must be a hardware fault, but I've witnessed this behaviour on multiple units when placed and tuned in a specific location.



This problem used to be so severe that I would disable TP for the PLAY:1s in question. Sonos have obviously made some DSP improvements over time, since I can now use TP without encountering the issue except on very extreme material.

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The 'bass popping' behaviour with a Trueplay tuned PLAY:1 has been reported before.

Consequence of clipping/over excursion caused by attempts to boost null room responses? Something that room response DSP usually stay away from attempting, restricting correction to smoothing peaks.

But if Sonos has largely fixed this, OP should not see it happening all the time.

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Consequence of clipping/over excursion caused by attempts to boost null room responses?

One suspects so, at least in TP's initial incarnation. As I say, Sonos appear to have quietly addressed it in a subsequent firmware version. On another thread I speculated that this resolution may not be totally unconnected with the soft-knee limiter detected in CONNECT.

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The 'bass popping' behaviour with a Trueplay tuned PLAY:1 has been reported before. There are a few threads.



This appears to occur when TP reinforces the bass due to speaker/room layout. One suspects that the bass is already heavily EQ'd to give the small speaker decent bass extension and the TP enhancement is sometimes sufficient to drive the signal into clipping. It sounds a bit like a drive unit hitting the limits of its excursion. Since it's independent of volume level any clipping must occur upstream.



Sonos seem to take the line that there must be a hardware fault, but I've witnessed this behaviour on multiple units when placed and tuned in a specific location.



This problem used to be so severe that I would disable TP for the PLAY:1s in question. Sonos have obviously made some DSP improvements over time, since I can now use TP without encountering the issue except on very extreme material.



This is exactly what's happening to my play 1. Sonos told me its an "environmental issue" and to not use trueplay. This is of course absurd. Trueplay is supposed to correct for the room the speaker is in and im being told the room layout is what's causing Trueplay to not work correctly.



As ive said this only happens in the kitchen. Put the same play one in any other room and its fine. Put the bedroom play 1 in the kitchen and it suffers the same fate. So its definitely not a hardware fault. Its all trueplay.



I should add that Trueplay works perfectly in the bedroom and the lounge room so its not a user error nor do i not like the result - in fact i love the result in the other rooms which is why i want it to work in the kitchen.



After all in this video made by sonos they talk about just how good trueplay is for the kitchen. How ironic that i cant get it to work correctly and the very company that makes it told me not to use it in that room.



https://youtu.be/8QgJHUy93T0

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If you don't post a diagnostic here, all you will get is words.

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Diagnostic 7283151

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Over to you now, Sonos

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Good suggestions everyone. The diagnostic isn't calling out any major flaws, but a few things I'd just like to check. First off, if you just turn off Trueplay for that speaker, you don't hear any clipping issues, correct? Playing the same songs, at the same volumes?



Have you tried moving it into a different position in the same room and tuning again?

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Hi Ryan



Yes, it you turn off Trueplay there is no clipping or distortion of any kind. Yes I have moved it around the kitchen and it still distorts in the bass to various levels - it's better in some location, worse in others but always there. At no point is the play 1 enclosed in any way, always on a bench or shelf with open air on three sides. Yes on the same songs, same volumes, same notes in the song. It does however not happen if the volume is below 1/3of max. As soon as you go above 1/3, even just one click on the iPhone for volume up, it starts.



When I say distortion in bass, it's mostly when the kick drum is used in a song. That's when it's worst.



For example, during the song "setting the world on fire" by Kenny Chensey, it does it on the songs first kick drum, then the next 2 are fine then on the 4th it does it again and on like that. This is not the only song however, it's all songs.



When you say "no major flaws" I take it there is something there you have seen?



Thanks

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When you say "no major flaws" I take it there is something there you have seen?



There's always something in a diagnostic, wireless spikes, a little more noise than we'd like to see... in this case, nothing that I saw would cause this, and not enough of anything worth chasing. The system seems to be operating just fine.



This sounds like a strange issue with audio in that room. Since multiple PLAY:1s have had the same issue, in different positions, and it goes away with Trueplay off, we've narrowed down just about all the variables. You may just be running into a problem with that room where Trueplay tuning isn't accounting for something.



The only other suggestion I could offer now would be to try using a different iOS device, perhaps the different microphone will help.



And of course, I have to ask, does it sound good without Trueplay on? If so, I'd say don't worry about it. Leave Trueplay off and just enjoy. The PLAY:1 was designed to sound great, if it does that without Trueplay, don't try to fix what isn't broken.

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See Kumar, the solution is always "just turn off Trueplay"



When you say "no major flaws" I take it there is something there you have seen?



And of course, I have to ask, does it sound good without Trueplay on? If so, I'd say don't worry about it. Leave Trueplay off and just enjoy. The PLAY:1 was designed to sound great, if it does that without Trueplay, don't try to fix what isn't broken.



I'm sorry Ryan, but did you really just say that? You - a Sonos representative, telling me not to fix something that isn't broken?



I thought that was the whole point of Trueplay! That there is only one "correct" way for a sonos speaker to sound and that every room affects that "correct" sound and Trueplay "fixes what is broken" in that room to make the speaker sound as it was designed to sound. Thats what the company says in this video, the irony being that one "expert" makes an example of just how good Trueplay works in the kitchen!



https://youtu.be/8QgJHUy93T0



So is this video a lie? Is Trueplay nothing more than a marketing gimmick that does not actually do what it is supposed to do? One of my major purchasing reasons for the sonos speakers was Trueplay. I was using sonos connects with my old hifi setup prior to this but got sick of hainvg to carefully place the speakers to try fix the very issues that Trueplay was allegedly created to fix. It was only after Trueplay was introduced that I started buying sonos speakers.



Had I known it was just a gimmick I would never have bought them. Thankfully in Australia we have very strict laws regarding misleading claims from manufacturers and companies.Also, a product must do what it is advertised/designed to do, otherwise the product has a major failure. It is unacceptable for sonos to promote Trueplay as a major component of the speaker - the app constantly reminds you that you have not done it, to then say "oh if it causes an issue then don't worry turn it off it's not really needed anyway."



Absolutely disgraceful

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See Kumar, the solution is always "just turn off Trueplay"



Absolutely disgraceful

I understand, but the last is surely a stretch, given that all units are giving you two valid sound quality options in every other room? And you have to read marketing plugs with the usual corrective lenses. There is clearly no correct way for a speaker to sound as long as it is not distorting, no matter what Sonos may say; speaker sound quality is, at the end of the day, a matter of personal preference. Some don't like Trueplay effects, some get to like them after a while, and then hate the sound with Trueplay off. None are wrong.



In my case, in some places it did not do anything noticeably different, and in one case it did it good. Although I needed to tweak the Sub level a little higher than the centre position that Trueplay left it at, to suit my tastes. Which leads to: Have you tried playing around with the Eq, after Trueplay, to see if dialling down the bass a little solves your problem?



Finally, as ratty explained, much of his issues that seem similar to yours have gone away now; his guess is that Sonos have tweaked Trueplay since it was launched. And which brings up another point: Sonos will keep tweaking Trueplay in the days to come, and these tweaks will be available to you as well. Free.

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Yes Kumar I have tried to reduce the bass in the eq after tuning. It does not reduce the clipping. The Bass level does reduce of course but the clipping does not. It does sound like the driver is actually hitting the enclosure.



I also don't know why you seem bent on defending Sonos at all costs. It's not my fault their product does not work as advertised. I've even asked the tech guys here in Australia to come to my home so I can demo the issue for them (they are located only 20 min from my home.) They refused. They won't even allow me to Trueplay the unit in my kitchen and send it to them for testing. Because after the tuning in the kitchen the unit has the issue even after moving it to another room.



Sonos are just not interested. They don't care. All they care is what the diagnostic says. Ryan has showed that here. The extent of their support is " send us a diagnostic. Oh the diagnostic looks ok. Well I'm out of ideas. " The diagnostic won't show and structural issues in the unit or defects in the driver/amplifier or any number of other components.



Do they want to see the unit to check for defects? NO

Do they suggest it's faulty and get a replacement? NO

Do they do anything to try remidate the issue? NOPE



Just "we've got your money so just live with it. "

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Do they want to see the unit to check for defects? NO

Do they suggest it's faulty and get a replacement? NO

Do they do anything to try remidate the issue? NOPE



In the room in question, is the issue limited to just the one specific unit? I think you said No to that. Do you then believe that both are defective in exactly the same way? Seems unlikely to me.

I am not defending Sonos at any cost; I have no commercial stake. But I see this as a free feature thrown in, that has worked fine or not made any difference at all. So, net result - I am fine with it. As many are. But if you think otherwise and have viable avenues to get your money back, why don't you just pursue those?

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I suggest that while Trueplay adjusts to an objective goal of making a speaker sound "right" given the environment and placement, it cannot be perfect (butterfly wings and everything). More importantly, it has no way of crawling inside the listeners mind and analyzing their extremely subjective listening preferences.



You don't like the Trueplay sound. Hearing is ultimately subjective, so it happens. If I had a nickel for every time a friend or acquaintance played their "perfect" sounding system which then proceeded to make my ears bleed, I'd be able to buy a couple Play:5's.

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