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SONOS v. HEOS - Collateral Damage

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Hi,

If you have been following the lawsuit between SONOS and Denon related to the HEOS line of Denon products, you are probably aware that SONOS won two major court victories recently. The result so far has been that Denon has removed certain functionality from their App. Not surprising, Denon is instructing their customer service people to tell the public that certain functions were removed from the App due to 'market research'. This removal impacts me because years ago, it would seem I bet on the wrong horse. When I was setting up my house for whole home audio I went with HEOS rather than SONOS for one simple reason, I believe the HEOS speakers sound more in line what my use and taste in music. The SONOS line is setup more for treble and vocals whereas the HEOS line is setup more for raw volume and heavier bass. The HEOS App was always crap but worked most of the time, now it is kinda useless and is making it difficult to use the speakers.

I find myself in the predicament of not being happy with either company. SONOS is the one who sued Denon, and is the ultimate cause of certain App functions being removed. And Denon is the one who essentially sold me an illegal product. Now I'm stuck with a bunch of speakers an an App that was limping already but is now crippled. Denon seems uninterested in taking the blame to fix the issue and wants to deny they are responsible in any way, and Sonos is saying we are sorry for your trouble (even though we created it), here's a measly 10% discount.

I have lost faith in Denon and am interested in switching over to SONOS but considering they are partially at fault for creating this mess, I expect them to be a bit more helpful about fixing it.

So, finally arriving at my question, if I want to buy a large quantity of SONOS speakers where is the best place to get them for the best price? I would probably be buying a PLAY: BAR, two subwoofers, two PLAY: FIVEs, and two ONEs at the outset.

Any thoughts on the best avenue to proceed are greatly appreciated.

Thx,

Atari

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airforceteacherAnswer

Headliner I

Setting aside the quagmire of discontent you've brought into this thread, your bottom line question is: how can I outfit my home at least expense.

1) eBay is always an option. Lots of stuff on eBay discounted heavily, and nothing I've gotten on eBay or open box has ever failed me.
2) Best Buy or Amazon open box or clearance. At least for Best Buy, warranty still applies. Amazon I think not, as they sell their open box as "used."
3) If you have access to the Base Exchange, then Sonos is usually best discounted there, and even better around Christmas time. Added bonus is no sales tax and usually free shipping. Active duty, reservists and retirees can shop in store, veterans can shop at aafes.com online once they verify their status.

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airforceteacherAnswer

Headliner I

Setting aside the quagmire of discontent you've brought into this thread, your bottom line question is: how can I outfit my home at least expense.

1) eBay is always an option. Lots of stuff on eBay discounted heavily, and nothing I've gotten on eBay or open box has ever failed me.
2) Best Buy or Amazon open box or clearance. At least for Best Buy, warranty still applies. Amazon I think not, as they sell their open box as "used."
3) If you have access to the Base Exchange, then Sonos is usually best discounted there, and even better around Christmas time. Added bonus is no sales tax and usually free shipping. Active duty, reservists and retirees can shop in store, veterans can shop at aafes.com online once they verify their status.

Ken_Griffiths

Atari_Prime,

If I were Sonos, I would not even consider offering you any form of discount in this situation.

Denon, by all accounts, stole directly from Sonos and passed off those thieved goods or services as though they were their own. The claim here is against the thief...Denon... Sonos is just the original victim of Denon and all they have done is brought the offender to justice.

Those who bought HEOS, need to seek redress from Denon, the thieves, who mis-sold their product with its stolen parts.

I don’t see that Sonos has any moral or legal obligation to offer HEOS customers any discount whatsoever.

Take the 10% (extremely kind) offer and then go sue Denon for selling you a 'sour lemon' in the first place.

K

Kumar

SONOS's actions have impacted the public in a negative way even if they were in the right to take such actions.

I don't know this well enough, but your sentence above suggests that Sonos were right in taking such actions. If that is admitted, your first part of the quote misses the big picture. By not losing revenue to be obtained from their development efforts by such actions, Sonos is able to sustain further developments that will benefit all customers as a group and this impacts the public positively in the long run.

Don't Denon also have a way of keeping their product fully functional by just paying Sonos the license fees for the features in question? If they are choosing to not do this, who is to blame?

As someone else did, I too suspect April 1 here.

BCM

Right on, Kumar. The only reason this is a negative to Atari is because he bought HEOS. Otherwise none of his grapes would be sour tonight.

K

Kumar

If so, equating himself with the public is a stretch. Or even equating all HEOS customers with the public.

chicks

What an amusing thread! Hard to believe just how incredibly entitled some people feel they are. OP, Sonos owes you exactly nothing, and their speakers are far more accurate than Heos. :8

Chris

Lead Maestro

Well - I can see why Sonos would want to earn his business away from a competitor and offer discount.

I'm curious as to what Denon had to remove from the app because of "market research"? What were they required to do to avoid future damages?

Respect the Queue (2)Move (3)Beam (1) Era100 (2)ARC (1)SonosOne (1)Playbar (4)Play5 (4)Play1 (3)Play3 (1)Port (2)Connect (1) Roam (2) Ace (1)Connect:Amp (4)Sonos Amp (1)Sub + (9) Echo + Smartthings; (2)Play)

jgatie

Well - I can see why Sonos would want to earn his business away from a competitor and offer discount.

As would any other competitor. That is very different from expecting a discount from Sonos because they "hurt the consumer" by being so bold as to protect themselves from a company who willfully broke patent law.

I'm curious as to what Denon had to remove from the app because of "market research"? What were they required to do to avoid future damages?

I would too.

AjTrek1

Don't be me and get a three year old CR-100 that had been setting in a steel shipping container for two full Phoenix summers and had the innards completely rotted. It lasted less than a month before it failed with a burst battery and cracked case.

Another comment....Caveat Emptor

One should always check the manufactured date (that usually appears somewhere on the packaging) on any product that has an internal battery. If its' 2018 and the product was manufactured in 2013 then "let the buyer beware".
I almost purchased an item (last on shelf) from a local retailer at full retail until I advised them that the product had been manufactured 2.5 years prior. I still purchased the product at 50% off and later returned it within the window when it failed to hold a charge. Point being it's just not BestBuy where one should be weary; but any retailer regarding a similar type internal battery product.

As for this thread...Sonos v HEOS (Denon)...I agree, the OP doesn't seem to be playing with a full deck :8

Cheers!

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

D

DavinciQC

Trending Lyricist I

@jgatie Again, not my lawsuit, not my place to judge who is right and wrong. See it how you want but SONOS's actions have impacted the public in a negative way even if they were in the right to take such actions.

You are way off. Stop whining. Man up. Sue Denon, get your money back. Go buy Sonos gear. Period.

20 years ago I bought a mountain bike made by Devinci Cycle (a Canadian company). It had a manufacturing defect (hidden or latent defect). Their aluminum frame had a failure issue that posed a high safety risk. I sued them many years after for latent defect and won my case.

So go get your money back with Denon.

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