In general, given an ‘ideal’-ish WiFi situation, the design is to be wireless, as a primary, and secondarily wired. For a Home theater room, I always suggest wireless (all radios/wifi on for all speakers), although the soundbar can be wired. This tends to avoid any potential (albeit slight, IMHO) delays between the soundbar and the Sub(s) and surround satellites due to transit through the extra network device. Not all network devices, however, present this as an issue, nor, as near as I can tell, all ears. 

My recommendation is, if you’re happy with your system as is, you shouldn’t change it. There’s no benefit. The system is designed to find the lowest latency connection and use it, as near as I can tell, but there shouldn’t be any ‘benefit’ one way, the other, or even mixed, as you have. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Just an opinion. 

Have you configured the STP settings on the managed switches?

https://support.sonos.com/en-gb/article/configure-stp-settings-to-work-with-sonos

I’ve been straight Wi-Fi for over 5 years. The new Sonos products are designed for wireless environments, and some will not join a wired Sonos network correctly called “Sonosnet”. Sonos has always had a “love/hate” relationship with switches especially managed switches.

As we don’t know what Sonos products you own, I can’t say which products can be wired and which cannot. I can suggest that if there is a Sonos Bridge involved it should be removed (Click here).

I recommend you review the information in this link to help determine the direction you want to move.

Thanks Bruce for the input.

The reality is that I ‘think’ there is an issue …. well a self generated issue that is. The swapping out of the old switches for new managed ones has created instability that did not exist on the previous 90% wired system.

To be honest my first incorrect assumption was that it was the new app. Whilst I think there are some issues there, the main one does appear be this STP issue. 

It is true that in past we never saw so much as hiccup that I recall. But now? Many issues. 

I think there are discussion threads that go through this Spanning Tree (STP) issue but I have struggled to fine one I can understand and replicate the fix.

The session with Sonos did show (to my surprise) that I was behind on SW updates. I have been doing them but had optioned ‘automatic’ and it seems that had not been happening. So some good news there.

As it goes we will be doing another and I think, the final room within the next few months …. and indeed it will be a home theatre room. After many years of waiting I have the green light to do a complete start to finish HT room! Excited. But also disappointed that the Parkwood TV box seems to be canned … I was hoping do the full fronts, backs and sound bar thing. But of course before going down that road, I was to eliminate this current reliability issue.

Sonos doesn't have a lot the search turns up.

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/choose-between-a-wireless-and-wired-sonos-setup

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/recommended-settings-for-using-sonos-with-ethernet-networks

Personally, I went from several wired to all wifi a while back and had no issues. It was nice to get the Sonosnet channel back for other uses. I've since added several Sonos that don't use Sonosnet and can't easily be wired and am still quite happy. I only have seven rooms and usually only stream to one at a time so my networking load is pretty low.

I'd recommend anyone try to go all wifi as a first try and only go wired if necessary. You have few options to manage Sonosnet once it is enabled on any device so a nice mesh wifi might prove better in many cases.

Make sure you understand what the "disable wifi" does before activating it as it can be a problem.

https://en.community.sonos.com/tutorials-and-how-to-s-229149/sonos-terminology-6905527#Disable+WiFi

Managed switches can be used, search here for that and Ubiquity and you should find some tips. I decided managed switches were excess hassle for my needs and went back to simple switches Sonos hasn't flagged as problems. 

Nice one …. this is what I need to at least eliminate the mess I have created. 

You sir have planned my near future for me tomorrow. Will give this a crack as wired network has as Bruce mentioned served us very well prior to this problem.

Will report back on impact. Many thanks

As I type slow…

On the TV room, Arc Ultra, a pair of 300s and one or two Subs will not disappoint.

You could go with a multichannel AVR and a bunch of passive speakers fed from the TV and a Port but that sacrifices simplicity and the ability to stream Atmos music, something I find I really like.

We have 5 Amps, an ARC, 2 Play Ones (which have to be wireless to the ARC), an older Connect:Amp, two Ports, 5 3rd Gen Sub Woofers, a Five and a Roam presently. Looking to do an HT room early next year as mentioned earlier. 

These have to date all been wired par the Play Ones. No Bridges.

Many thanks for that link. I have to confess I’ve never seen that and went RJ45 for everything years back a bit out of instinct rather than science and research.

We do have a decent wifi system as it goes. a Netgear Orbi RBS853 with an extra 3 satellites added over time….5 in total. The house whilst only a 4 bed semi is made of Staffordshire blue engineering brick so we overdid the wifi spec a bit even though the vast majority of devices are wired….TV’s cameras, etc

Great advice. Appreciated. Unfortunately I didn’t do the research as well as you and spent a slightly stupid amount on the two managed switches assuming (yes I know ) that they would improve my options rather than complicate them. 

I do in fact have a very top end (for the early 2000’s) B&W and Pioneer AVR HT set up which does not disappoint but is looking a little late 90’s and very large and not integrating of course into the considerable Sonos commitment in the rest of the house. 

The set up you describe is where I think we will be but the thought of ERA300 rears and that TV box still pulls me. I’m taking the logic route to says to plan for that and assume it will lands in a couple more years. But that does not negate your recommendation which I think will be the model.

Brilliant data, links and ideas folks …. appreciate you taking the time and plenty of reading this evening. Keep it coming …. super stuff and all being taken on board 

An update that may be useful to others in future in this position.

I spent an age with some very competent and helpful support from Netgear. They implemented the recommended Sonos STP settings and all appears well on a combination of wired and wireless connections.

The second managed switch was not performing well but a fairly substantial firmware upgrade resolved the issue. We did the same on the first switch and performance and consistency is much improved. Perfect I’d say.

Strangely the component we considered to be perfect had a firmware level automatically installed that Netgear considered better to degrade one level. They did this for me on the router and all 4 satellites. I’m not entirely sure it was necessary but certainly no issues as a result. 

Tomorrow I will move all the Sonos (that can be) back to wired and see what the impact is. Hopefully it will be the same. 

I’ve used the exercise to test every bloody RJ45 end to end, label and colour code every cable at both ends ….. something I’ve been promising to do for a decade. And no small exercise. Amazingly near all cables were in good shape even if some of the termination was poor quality. I’ve cut and re-terminated them all with better quality connectors and wall plates. Still a few to identify but the worst done.

So the Sonos recommended STP and STP associated settings are worth doing as is having the best FW on managed switches. 

Many thanks to those who took the time to help. All valuable stuff and is influencing next Sonos choices and purchases.

Actually I missed that I also contacted Sonos support and discussed configuration. They were more nuanced in ‘best practise’ definition. They seemed to think a combination of wired and wireless was best. 

I found it a little difficult to understand fully why if I’m honest. However in checking the diagnostics, they did identify that a was missing a few updates. This was a surprise. I thought I was doing OK in this department ….  app option was set to auto and every now and again I do see updates. I also use the PC app and that often prompts for updates.

But they were right …. and subsequently, if I option to manually search for updates, I’ve been getting quite a few. So lesson for me not to assume that ‘auto updates’ are actually that ‘auto’. And indeed it’s no effort to do a manual update in addition. It’s hard to have any feel as to whether the updates (or lack of them) were having an impact. But better be up to date as a rule.

And in fairness I notice that with these fairly substantial network checks and adjustments and the applying of all updates, the Sonos Android App definitely seems be working better. of course in reality my background issues were creating something of a false whipping post for the app.

Auto updates will only work if all devices are connected to the network at the time of the firmware update. Portables are a good example where they will miss auto updates if they are powered off. Even if all devices are connected, it is not uncommon in larger systems for an update to fail on a device and the update has to be rerun, potentially multiple times. Devices running different firmware could previously cause issues with audio when grouping, although with older devices now having their own specific firmware version, care now has to be taken when comparing the firmware on devices under About My System in the app. Regularly manually checking for updates is best practice to ensure the system is fully up-to-date.

My experience, for what its worth, this issue is more common in SonosNet / mixed environment, due devices restarting, SonosNet STP reconfiguring whilst other (potentially older/slower) devices are updating. It may appear they have failed, but actually they will have completed (or are still updating) and just not reported back to the App due to network reconfiguration.

With new App, in a fully wireless environment, with no Ethernet, just SonosNet between soundbar and Sub, I see the Sub appear to have failed maybe 1 in 5 or 6 system updates in iOS App when doing system updates, but if I force close the App, go make a fresh brew of coffee, and then re-open the App 10 minutes later, all is good, ie no need to rerun system update again instantly you see a failed message, just let it do its thing in the background whilst sipping your coffee.

I wasn’t referring to the app showing an update error due to the update timing out. In that situation, checking for updates again confirms the system is up-to-date.

I’ve ran both mixed environment and currently have a wireless setup. I wouldn’t say one setup is particularly different from the other in terms of updates. Sometimes updates would complete successfully at first attempt, others required multiple attempts. Personally, if there is a firmware update I update all non-portable devices first if the auto update hasn’t already completed, then I power on all portables and run the update separately for them.

The 5GHz connection between soundbar and sub is not SonosNet. SonosNet operates on 2.4GHz.

Terminology clash. Yes, a dedicated 5GHz channel. The Wireless Info shows SONOSNET on network matrix for WM:2.

So not the dedicated 2.4GHz SonosNet WM:0 we all used to love before we migrated to wireless setup WM:1 , maybe I should have referred to it as “SonosNet WM:2”, rather than just “SonosNet”.

In a wired SonosNet WM:0 setup you have root node, secondary node(s) and tertiary node(s), if a secondary node is restarting whilst a tertiary node is updating (ie via a tunnel to secondary node), the update will be interrupted whilst the secondary node restarts and/or the SonosNet WM:0 network STP reconfigures. With a mixture of older/slower and newer/faster devices, the network is unpredictable during the update process.

In a WM:1 wireless the network is more predictable, as no STP, all Sonos devices are connected to the WiFi, only bonded HT speakers maybe affected that use (SonosNet) WM:2

The 5GHz connection between soundbar and sub is not SonosNet. SonosNet operates on 2.4GHz.

Terminology clash. Yes, a dedicated 5GHz channel. The Wireless Info shows SONOSNET on network matrix for WM:2.

So not the dedicated 2.4GHz SonosNet WM:0 we all used to love before we migrated to wireless setup WM:1 , maybe I should have referred to it as “SonosNet WM:2”, rather than just “SonosNet”.

In a wired SonosNet WM:0 setup you have root node, secondary node(s) and tertiary node(s), if a secondary node is restarting whilst a tertiary node is updating (ie via a tunnel to secondary node), the update will be interrupted whilst the secondary node restarts and/or the SonosNet WM:0 network STP reconfigures. With a mixture of older/slower and newer/faster devices, the network is unpredictable during the update process.

In a WM:1 wireless the network is more predictable, as no STP, all Sonos devices are connected to the WiFi, only bonded HT speakers maybe affected that use (SonosNet) WM:2

I’m not fully understanding the scope or even if I have SonosNet invoked.

Is this visible in the mobile app or laptop app or even using third party tools? Interested to see the setup you describe.

Also is there a web page or explanation page within the Sonos web site? 

Thanks

In 99.9% of cases, the use of the term SonosNet in the community refers to the dedicated wireless network created by wiring at least one Sonos device to the router.

In the app, under Settings > Network, you will see SonosNet Channel with option to switch between 1, 6 and 11 which are all on the 2.4GHz band.

Previously the WM (wireless mode) was visible in the mobile apps within About My System, so you could see relatively easily how each device was connected, but this has still not been implemented yet in the new app, but still visible on desktop apps.

Explanation for each WM mode given here:

https://support.sonos.com/en-us//article/check-if-sonos-is-in-a-wireless-or-wired-setup

A useful tool in the past was reviewing the Network Matrix when using a wired setup, but with newer devices and portables not compatible with “SonosNet”, there is less useful information to help potential troubleshooting now than before. 

A good starting point for the Network Matrix/SonosNet however is this article:

https://freetime.mikeconnelly.com/archives/6050

Edited to make clear which version of Sonosnet this applies to.

SonosNet (the system-wide 2.4 gHz version) status is easy to figure out, if you:

- Have a SonosNet capable device.

- Have it connected to Ethernet. 

- Have the internal radio enabled.

Then you have SonosNet running.

The only way to stop (the system wide) SonosNet is to remove one of the three above conditions.

I really wish we had a Disable SonosNet option next to the Disable Wi-Fi one.

Not on Sonos website, but co-authored ‘SONOS Networking Best Practice’ will answer most of your questions, and probably generate a few more:

https://www.guildintegratorsalliance.org/fieldguides

My recommendation for a typical home (eg not high density Sonos Amp install in a rack), is use wireless with ceiling mounted APs. Well positioned £100 ceiling AP will perform a lot better than a £300 AP tucked away on a cabinet, shelf etc. Sonos does not need much bandwidth, but performs best with reliable low latency connection.

​@Mr. T I refer to SonosNet ‘Sonos Network’ as a network path created between Sonos devices, the guide I refer to above, co-authored by Sonos:

Generally, SonosNet operates in the 2.4Ghz band. The exception is for 2.1, 3.1, 5.0, and 5.1 speaker configurations, where Sonos uses the 5Ghz band to distribute audio from the center speaker directly to the rear satellite speakers and/or subwoofer. Because SonosNet inherently creates two different network communication paths (i.e. data can be passed through the hardwire connection OR through the wireless SonosNet connection), it creates the possibility of network loops when more than one Sonos device is hardwired with SonosNet enabled, so you need to follow best practices to avoid causing network loops.

Apologies for any confusion.

Thanks for the link ​@craigski, I hadn’t seen that publication before, or if I had, I’d forgotten about it.

Yes, technically you are correct. SonosNet is the private network path between Sonos devices and that between soundbar/subs/surrounds would fall into that category.

The widespread use of the term SonosNet in the community is in reference to the 2.4GHz connection only, rather than the 5GHz exceptions.

Glad we are on same page, we just didn't have our glasses on. 

I'm not used to seeing the 5 gHz inter-speaker link called Sonosnet, mostly see it called something like "5 gHz private network" so that is new information for me unless I just forgot being told earlier.

Is the inter-speaker Sonosnet v 2 or is it newer?

I do wish it had a different name, this dual / incompatible use is going to complicate answering questions.

I’ve seen the Sonos Bridge referred to as SonosNet v1.0.  Hardware in later devices allow SonosNet 2.0, potentially from the release of the Play:3 but not 100% on that. The 5Ghz bonding happens on both v1 and v2.

I wouldn’t change how you answer questions around SonosNet.