Era 300 network failures, SonosNet comparisons. Why are we taking a step back… and paying more.

J
Userlevel 1
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As a loyal Sonos consumer, beta tester and unofficial sales rep over the last 15 years, I have maintained that SonosNet had been, until now, one of the top reasons I recommend the brand. In a world full of poor ISP routers, mesh networks, and increased messy wifi poloution, having a dedicated music network has proven time and time gain to be an incredible, reliable and unique consumer rewarding technology. 

With the introduction of the Eras I got excited to rotate in some new upgrades. First in the door was a couple Era 300s. 
First step was to start some side by side comparisons. Play ones in the bathrooms first.  In bathroom #1 the first era wouldn’t stay available in the app, so on to era 300 #2 in bathroom #1, same issue. It was strange as the One has worked no problem in there for years. I took the usual trouble shooting step and nothing helped. On the bathroom #2 which also has had and One in it for years without issues. Same problem Era 300s won’t stay available in app and then go into error fix status.  Ok let’s try the studio with an old Play 3, same issue. Garage with an old play 3, same issue. Dining room Fives? Nope, still can’t keep the Era 300s connected to the app long enough to get through a song and the warning about using a mesh network. This is when I jumped online to see if others had issues and I discovered  they no longer support Sonosnet.

A quick call to tech support revealed an even more upsetting scenarios. The tech support didn’t care and blamed me. 
 

In our case we have a very substantial home/business network running. It works perfect for how we need it to. We use Sonos in the home and the studio attached to our house and it worked perfectly, until now. The Era 300 won’t work on that network because it’s using mesh technology and they won’t work on Sonos’s own patented network. Why on earth would they remove the option to use the dedicated SonosNet. I essentially have two paper weights now. Or I have disassemble our expensive network and go back to hoping and praying a single router will cover the house and business?
 

I’d expect that in a world of increased competition in the market, Sonos would be perfecting and focusing on their standout benefits.  This is like a huge step back for loyal and new consumers. I am over 30 days in, haven’t be able to complete a single side by side test and I’m stuck with two useless speakers and a growing disappointment in a brand that I used to love. 

On a side note I also use Bluesound and NAD wireless products and the fact that they use wifi is my number 1 issue with them. I’ve had to run hardwired solution to them.  So if I want to spend time dealing unreliable music networking I might as well use the stuff that sounds better. At least I can use power line adapters. The Era 300 don’t even have Ethernet ports anymore to us this work around. 😡🤬

 

 

Make it a great day.
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17 replies

U
Userlevel 1
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I saw this right before I left to go get an era 300. They say it wont work on a mesh system, even though all the other Sonos speakers are running on it?

Airgetlam

Nonsense. They work well on properly set up mesh networks, and you can get the adapter to wire it directly to your network, if you feel the need. 

Bruce
Ken_Griffiths

That’s strange @Justin_21, as I have several Era 300’s and 100’s and they all work perfect on my ‘bridged’ plume WiFi mesh network (6 AX/AC hubs mixed), together with my ISP provided router. Not seen a single issue.

SSDP device discovery/mDNS works every time that I open the various iOS/Android controllers and I’m not seeing any music dropouts whilst using Amazon Music UltraHD/Apple Music and the local NAS library etc. Not seeing any issues with Airplay, or Bluetooth playback either.

My thoughts are there might be a local network issue in your case. 

I’ve not even reserved the Sonos IP addresses in the router DHCP reservation table either, and their setup here has been really excellent alongside my other Sonos products - I have all now running on the mesh WiFi, but it did work equally well with the other products running in wired SonosNet mode too. I was previously using a Sonos Port as the wired device, but I’ve actually found the Sonos App discovers the system faster when all are operating on the mesh WiFi.

J
Userlevel 1
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I saw this right before I left to go get an era 300. They say it wont work on a mesh system, even though all the other Sonos speakers are running on it?

According to their tech support Sonos does not recommend the use of mesh routers as it will cause delays in the syncing of multiple rooms. So if you only use one room and no groupings you should be fine. Some other users are using them successfully with mesh systems against the official recommendation of Sonos. On mine, every time we get the 300s connected and try grouping we get an in app pop up stating they will not work because they are connected to a mesh router system. After that pops up, they go grey and we can no longer access them from the app. 
I would day still get them, just be aware if you get issues like we have, don’t waste time and take them back as Sonos has no fix and no interest in finding a fix. 

Make it a great day.
J
Userlevel 1
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Nonsense. They work well on properly set up mesh networks, and you can get the adapter to wire it directly to your network, if you feel the need. 

I’m happy they work for you. I wish I lived in a perfect work like you. 
Whats is nonsense is having to change the 17 speakers working fine in Sonosnet and the 67 devices on our wireless network just to accommodate two new speaker that no longer support their own network. 
Not including Ethernet and selling an adapter is not an example of a customer driven decision. 
So again, I’m glad yours is working. But it’s not for everyone, and people with complex systems are basically being told that it’s their own fault. 

Make it a great day.
jgatie

Why are you changing the 17 speakers on Sonosnet?  You can keep them on Sonosnet if you want, I've done this with my regular speakers on Sononet and the Move/Roam on WiFi for years.  Works great

J
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

That’s strange @Justin_21, as I have several Era 300’s and 100’s and they all work perfect on my ‘bridged’ plume WiFi mesh network (6 AX/AC hubs mixed), together with my ISP provided router. Not seen a single issue.

SSDP device discovery/mDNS works every time that I open the various iOS/Android controllers and I’m not seeing any music dropouts whilst using Amazon Music UltraHD/Apple Music and the local NAS library etc. Not seeing any issues with Airplay, or Bluetooth playback either.

My thoughts are there might be a local network issue in your case. 

I’ve not even reserved the Sonos IP addresses in the router DHCP reservation table either, and their setup here has been really excellent alongside my other Sonos products - I have all now running on the mesh WiFi, but it did work equally well with the other products running in wired SonosNet mode too. I was previously using a Sonos Port as the wired device, but I’ve actually found the Sonos App discovers the system faster when all are operating on the mesh WiFi.

Thanks for the repose. I’m glad to see yours is running well. 
Ours is running over 7500sq ft, 17 Sonos devices.  Our network is an ASUS build running 5 access point and a main router.running over 3 structures. I have tried reconfiguring to a “basic” system even just to see if it’s related to our security. For whatever reason just the 2 Era 300s are the issue. If I switch all other Sonos speaker to wifi they are working, albeit with disconnects and interruptions. 

I guess my main gripes are that they removed support for something that was a standout and flagship service for them for years and in doing so have created many preventable headaches. Repeating the same issues “wifi only” systems that have had a failed by for years.  On the support side there is no one interested is passing this on to a senior technician or engineer like they used to do with complex issue in the past. Instead it’s just my fault. 
 

Make it a great day.
J
Userlevel 1
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Why are you changing the 17 speakers on Sonosnet?  You can keep them on Sonosnet if you want, I've done this with my regular speakers on Sononet and the Move/Roam on WiFi for years.  Works great

That’s exactly the problem. When trying to get them work with the rest I can not even get the, to group with the Sonosnet speakers. So support said I would have to remove my boost and set it all up on my wifi. Which I did… amd the drop outs and disconnects were insane across all the speakers. 
Nearly adding Sonos tot he wifi network results in over 80 wireless devices and creates a lot of issues across the network. So keeping the SonosNet on a dedicated channel was/is a godsend. 
like I said it worked fine until now. 

Make it a great day.
buzz

Let’s review. You have two ERA 300’s and the rest are older SONOS units that can use SonosNet?

If you keep the older units on SonosNet, only the 300’s are an issue?

If this is the case, it suggests to me that there is a network issue. The 100’s and 300’s are docile. Earlier today I had a very strange issue where my Android and iPad were denied WiFi access. This was a Gateway fault requiring a reboot. My SONOS system is a mixture of SonosNet and WiFi. and there are two different WiFi networks. One is a mesh, and one is the ISP’s gateway. Both WiFi networks are known to SONOS. Before the Gateway issue, the SONOS system had been using the Gateway’s WiFi. I’m not exactly when the Gateway’s WiFi went into its funk, but after I resolved that, I noticed that the WiFi 300’s and 100’s had quietly switched over to the alternate WiFi.

I’m not familiar with the details of your ASUS, but they have a history. Maybe this suggestion will help resolving your issue. In any case all of the SONOS units must be on the same subnet. Some mesh systems split the mesh clients onto separate subnets and this will cause trouble for SONOS.

J
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

Let’s review. You have two ERA 300’s and the rest are older SONOS units that can use SonosNet?

If you keep the older units on SonosNet, only the 300’s are an issue?

If this is the case, it suggests to me that there is a network issue. The 100’s and 300’s are docile. Earlier today I had a very strange issue where my Android and iPad were denied WiFi access. This was a Gateway fault requiring a reboot. My SONOS system is a mixture of SonosNet and WiFi. and there are two different WiFi networks. One is a mesh, and one is the ISP’s gateway. Both WiFi networks are known to SONOS. Before the Gateway issue, the SONOS system had been using the Gateway’s WiFi. I’m not exactly when the Gateway’s WiFi went into its funk, but after I resolved that, I noticed that the WiFi 300’s and 100’s had quietly switched over to the alternate WiFi.

I’m not familiar with the details of your ASUS, but they have a history. Maybe this suggestion will help resolving your issue. In any case all of the SONOS units must be on the same subnet. Some mesh systems split the mesh clients onto separate subnets and this will cause trouble for SONOS.

Hey Buzz! Thank you for taking the time to make a suggestion. Airtime fairness is off as it spurs issues with other devices as well. 
If I take the older units off sonosnet and put them on the wifi, they will work, but with drops outs and rooms disconnects. Which takes me back to why I use and love SonosNet. I’m sure that I’m the exception to the majority here, but my point of concern comes back to why was this awesome piece of technology removed? Many may never notice a difference. Or maybe many will have and are having issues with drop outs and disconnects now as well without realizing that the wifi is the issue and that by using Sonosnet they could prevent it. I have noticed in recent years that they have pulled back the marketing on it. Is it a cost saver for them? 

Make it a great day.
buzz

It might be a cost saver in terms of development time. In 2005 when the first products were released, WiFi was cruder than now and could not support the diversity available now. Back then no other companies could support the system size and scope that seemed trivial for SONOS — those that did try ran into SONOS patents. Current WiFi technology is much more agile and this creates issues for the original SonosNet implementations that are not channel agile. Some mesh networks will split clients between subnets and may jump between channels. While this might not be a problem for web browsing, it is an issue for SONOS because the units are very chatty with each other. It’s not such a big deal if a web page or email is delayed a few milliseconds while the WiFi clients renegotiate, but this is not acceptable for audio. Anyway, here we are.

With the older SonosNet models you can go to http://[IP address of a player]:1400/support/review. At the bottom, open Network Matrix. Red cells are drawing your attention to potential issues. Note that this is a static view. Refresh the page for current data. Unfortunately, the utility of this view is waning because the newer players don’t populate this view. And, there is no documentation.

 

Ken_Griffiths

I saw this right before I left to go get an era 300. They say it wont work on a mesh system, even though all the other Sonos speakers are running on it?

According to their tech support Sonos does not recommend the use of mesh routers as it will cause delays in the syncing of multiple rooms. 

That’s odd because in the second footnote in this ‘System Requirements’ support document it says this…

"If you need to extend your home WiFi to use Sonos in a wireless setup, we recommend using a WiFi mesh router to do so"

See this link:

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/sonos-system-requirements

I have far more than 17 Sonos products on my Home system and not seeing an issue when running them on a mesh WiFi setup - in my case though I have the 6 hubs bridged in AP mode to my ISP router… 

3 hubs hang off a wired backbone and the 3 remaining wireless hubs are paired to the wired hubs - see diagrams attached …and this works just fine for 25+ Sonos and everything else on the network, including lights, blinds, heating, plugs, cameras etc.

It will still most likely be an issue with your local network… many users these days use a WiFi mesh for their home network and have success with what is a supported Sonos setup, as stated in the linked document above.

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J
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

I saw this right before I left to go get an era 300. They say it wont work on a mesh system, even though all the other Sonos speakers are running on it?

According to their tech support Sonos does not recommend the use of mesh routers as it will cause delays in the syncing of multiple rooms. 

That’s odd because in the second footnote in this ‘System Requirements’ support document it says this…

"If you need to extend your home WiFi to use Sonos in a wireless setup, we recommend using a WiFi mesh router to do so"

See this link:

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/sonos-system-requirements

I have far more than 17 Sonos products on my Home system and not seeing an issue when running them on a mesh WiFi setup - in my case though I have the 6 hubs bridged in AP mode to my ISP router… 

3 hubs hang off a wired backbone and the 3 remaining wireless hubs are paired to the wired hubs - see diagrams attached …and this works just fine for 25+ Sonos and everything else on the network, including lights, blinds, heating, plugs, cameras etc.

It will still most likely be an issue with your local network… many users these days use a WiFi mesh for their home network and have success with what is a supported Sonos setup, as stated in the linked document above.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have jumped through many troubleshooting hoops for over a month before getting to the point of making this post. Then article you linked to also states what I’ve already said. Range extenders are not supported. Sonos support treats extenders and APs as one and the same. Again I’m happy to see yours is working. It gives me hope. But I would reiterate my point, this huge waste of time and need to reconfigure networks or even replace network hardware could and would be prevented if they would make this unit support Sonosnet. For reference here is the notice I get when the 300 is connected and I try to group it. It will not play in groups if it on an AP or extender. 

 

Make it a great day.
J
Userlevel 1
Badge +1

It might be a cost saver in terms of development time. In 2005 when the first products were released, WiFi was cruder than now and could not support the diversity available now. Back then no other companies could support the system size and scope that seemed trivial for SONOS — those that did try ran into SONOS patents. Current WiFi technology is much more agile and this creates issues for the original SonosNet implementations that are not channel agile. Some mesh networks will split clients between subnets and may jump between channels. While this might not be a problem for web browsing, it is an issue for SONOS because the units are very chatty with each other. It’s not such a big deal if a web page or email is delayed a few milliseconds while the WiFi clients renegotiate, but this is not acceptable for audio. Anyway, here we are.

With the older SonosNet models you can go to http://[IP address of a player]:1400/support/review. At the bottom, open Network Matrix. Red cells are drawing your attention to potential issues. Note that this is a static view. Refresh the page for current data. Unfortunately, the utility of this view is waning because the newer players don’t populate this view. And, there is no documentation.

 

All that being said. The issue comes back to this. It can not play with others unless I change hardware. Im now running it bundled to the router which is only 15 feet away and the cutting out would make your ears bleed. 

Make it a great day.
Ken_Griffiths

Yes indeed @Justin_21, WiFi extenders have always been on the Sonos incompatible WiFi networks list within their published system requirements. Little doubt that’s perhaps why your system was put onto SonosNet in the first place.

I don’t use extenders and have a WiFi mesh system here.

Have you tried wiring the Era’s directly back to your Asus router (you’ll need a Sonos network adapter to do that)? You could perhaps even look at blacklisting the Era MAC addresses, so that they do not use your WiFi extenders and connect just to your Asus router only.

ratty

Extenders are nasty. They typically mangle the MAC addresses of client devices. A true mesh system doesn’t.

If the ASUS devices can’t participate in AiMesh (which IME works fine with larger Sonos systems) then

  • corral Sonos units onto any true (wired) APs, as suggested by @Ken_Griffiths, or
  • get separate, dedicated AP(s) for Sonos, either with fully wired backhaul or wired to wireless SonosNet nodes, or
  • hardwire the Eras using the Ethernet dongles

SonosNet is very slow, orders of magnitude slower than modern WiFi. This needn’t matter for audio to a few players. Larger Sonos systems could well benefit from a WiFi mesh.

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Another take: maintaining a SonosNet on Sonos devices will consume energy, even if the Sonos devices are not being used. If you do the maths, you maybe surprised how much electricity you will potentially save using modern Sonos devices that don’t use SonosNet over their expected lifetime, that may justify some expenditure on upgrading home network?

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