End of Software Support - Clarifications

Not just speculation… expressing general disgruntlement with Sonos’ decision. But then again, we know that they won’t change tack based on customer feedback, right? Because that’s never happened, especially not recently. 

It sounds like there is a lot to flesh out, but I respect their commitment to making a positive change. It seems the UK is trying to do something about the throw away culture many companies have adopted. 

More the EU than the UK is what I gathered from the article.

Would be nice though wouldn’t it to go back to that moment in time when desktop’s were component up-gradable … and laptops …. where a component could be changed rather than than a unit. And our attitudes where to make things last the distance …. because we could.

And were things got repaired rather than junked. Our Tech Services Director for EMEA once described it to me as the ‘toaster repair syndrome’ …. there was a time when a toaster would be repaired. But that an axis is reached where the consumer preference was for new and indeed cost was easier to just replace. Every product reaches the toaster point. I wander if (as consumers) we may be changing this view. I know I am. I can afford to junk stuff and buy great new stuff but there is a much more compelling argument these days. 

Due to role I’ve been lucky enough to have had mad over spec’ed cars, laptops,... everything and always enjoyed getting the next latest and greatest. 

That said in the AV world I’ve always bought best and made it last the distance. My B&W speakers (801’s 805’s ASW800’s amps AX10i’s cost a fortune back in 96’-98’ but they still there and working! Not bad … they approximately 22 - 24 years old … same as the first daughter. The AX10i I am in fairness just about to replace with a Denon AVC 8500 and add some DA speakers …. but the B&W’s? There is still little to beat so why replace?

Same with white goods … buy a £1.2k Miele tumble dryer and you know you wouldn’t be spending on that for 15 years + … and that one of your kids will also get 5 years out of it.

And the laptop I use now (having been used to the best of everything in past) is an Aldi Medion 2010 model with upgraded memory, SSD, a keyboard and screen that’s been replaced a time or two at next to no cost … a power board that was replaced and still it does everything needed. I could afford to go get an HP X360 such as the one No.1 son showed me his company gave him. But there is something really nice about using things until the wheels fall off and then go buy the best money can buy and start again.

Same with TV’s to a lessor extent, high end models with stock fault that can be repaired cheaply … if you can get the data. Most folks don’t bother. 

Always surprised me that there was not a larger repair community with Sonos. Then I know little about the internal tech.

In fairness not that I ever had one fail … tell a lie. Ironically I had a Play 5 gen 1 fail (with some help from me and a cup of tea) about 2 years back. Sonos offered a first class (small cost) replacement unit. Impressive.It arrived 3 days later from Holland. Think it cost maybe £100 approx. Very worthwhile.

But almost all the tech products from Logitech Alert cams to Miele Revolution hoovers there are clever folk out there who can change caps, sort dry joints, re-flash firmwares, etc but never saw a great deal for Sonos in that area. Never had to look in fairness.

Sermon over! :-)  …. I like new were you can see a value for new but I love keeping old going until it simply cannot go any further.

I should add that until this years debacle (which still may see a happy ending) that I would most certainly have had Sonos on that list of ‘live forever’ and ‘add to’ products. And not to become as passive as some, in that sense there is an argument (and hope) that May’s announcement may yet preserve this happy status. 

Boy there’s a lot to expect come May :-)   tongue in cheek.

Quite honestly, with all that is happening around all of humanity right now, what May will mean for Sonos has lost all importance for me at any rate; there are many other things we will be concerned with in May, though one obviously hopes that we can go back to worrying about Sonos.

But you make very good points - the only problem in going back to that kind of lifestyle, while sensible, will mean negative GDP growth for some years if all start using existing products to actual end of life, which is in turn going to mean belt tightening all around. But it may well be that the only sustainable way forward is in that manner.

Is double ironic Kumar in as much as … yes 100% agree your opening comment and I am in fact 5 days into self isolation due to a fairly rotten flu experience (not confirmed to be anything worse) than that. It could be the fact that when things are too large to comprehend that ‘the small stuff’ maybe keeps us a little sane.

Accept the GDP argument but it it does feel like even larger arguments are emerging around us every year that points to the GDP capitalist model as not being entirely sustainable. Or at least needing significant re-shaping.  And I speak as someone (like most on here I’m sure) who has benefited from that model for many years.

Buying the best, paying premium and enjoying the product much longer strikes me as the absolute best thing you can do to support that model. We just have to learn to quell our materialistic replacement motivations. So in real world terms, absolutely get the best … pay a little over the odds for it, but resist that urge to stuff it in a skip as soon as it fails for reasons that ‘could’ with a little motivation, be addressed. Strangely I was listening to a briefing by one of the senior Friends of the Earth folks a while back and he basically said the same …. it’s the replenishment cycle that needs addressing whether it be clothing, consuming electronics etc.

Prior to recent flu stuff I went to a recycling center near us take some old fencing away. Maybe it’s age but I could not believe the things being junked there. It makes you feel quite ill.

Anyway I feel I’m pulling a fair bit off topic here sorry. If we consider Sonos system in the same premium product category as Miele, B&W, Denon, Hugo Boss with long life cycles and the like then it’s relevant. And I feel it’s likely Sonos might would want to believe like their system would be regarded in that same premium classification.

Since the thread topic isn't moving other than in circles, perhaps a digression may be permitted. The big problem is that there is no bridge from the existing model to one where durables are used to end of life, and non durables are not wasted. Because that model will mean - to use just one example - a huge drop in sales of new cars for some years. Just that one change for car buying will have immense cascading impacts on the level of economic activity globally and on everyone’s earnings and lifestyles. And that will lead to so much analysis paralysis around making that kind of a change, that the change will only be made if forced on us by the environment or something else external.

The way that the Covid threat is being handled everywhere in the world leaves one with little hope that we have learned to deal with such issues in a rational manner, so it is a little hard to be an optimist at this time.

End of digression.

You got to feel for Spence - he ended up setting the company stock price trends pointing in the wrong direction and then the tsunami arrived. At its present price of USD 8 or thereabouts, it probably is close to a compelling buy now for someone that can leverage its position. The coming days may see this become even more compelling if the price keeps falling…

Every treatise on intelligent investing says that when fear rules the markets, it is the time for canny buyers.

And if no one snaps it up in the coming days, there is a message in that for the user base.

I am in the same situation.  This is extremely disappointing. I have invested over the years on Sonos adding speakers and other components on a regular basis and have given systems to my 3 kids as special gifts. In my opinion, this company needs to make major corrections to protect its brand and “brand ambassadors” as we made this company grow through our recommendations . Perhaps new leadership is the answer. Potential new buyers beware.

IMO, till there is stability again in the world, Sonos needs to announce that it is calling off this event - if needed, Covid also gives them a good cover to do this. Nothing will change for all Sonos users in the visible medium term, and there will be one less anxiety for everyone touched by Sonos to deal with at a time everyone has enough on their plate.

Of course it is looking likely that this decision will be taken for Sonos by external events anyway.