Retired Sonos Staff

End of Software Support - Clarifications

Dec 8, 2022 11:29 AM UTC
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We announced yesterday that some of our oldest Sonos products will be moving into a legacy mode in May of 2020. Our commitment is to support products with regular software updates for a minimum of five years after we stop selling them, and we have a track record of supporting products far longer.

Here is some public information we’ve shared, gathered into one place to respond to some of your questions in one easy thread, so that people can find the correct information easily.

Beginning in May, software updates and new features from Sonos will only be delivered to systems with only modern products.

After May, systems that include legacy products will continue to work as before - but they will no longer receive software updates or new features.

Sonos will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes, but our efforts will ultimately be limited by the lack of memory and processing power of these legacy products.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features.

Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. You can continue to use your whole system in legacy mode - in this case, it will stop receiving updates and new features.

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade.

We recognize this is new for Sonos owners, just as it is for Sonos. We are committed to help you by making options available to you to support the best decision for your home.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Update 2/22: A message from our CEO

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn’t exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Patrick Spence
CEO, Sonos

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D

DK_Madsen

Enthusiast II

I don’t know exactly what crazy big update would be, but yes, I suspect that the update is in the boxes legacy and modern devices both have for common functionality. Something along the lines of making the multiroom audio more stable, less drop outs, etc. I agree that it’s possibly not something that gets updated very often. I also think it’s quite possible that it’s something most users won’t notice any real difference between modern and legacy systems, and therefore conclude that it was not necessary.

I dont have any problems with dropouts when doing party mode i must say, i dont know if there are a lot of users experiencing this ?

I agree that a feature addition/improvement that like airplay shouldn’t cause problems for legacy speakers and shouldn’t be the cause of this split. However, it could be a system wide feature addition that will only work with code added to all devices in the system. I struggle to imagine what that could be, but can’t rule it out as a possibility.

Me 2.

BUT even if they have some good reason to do this, i still think it would have been better to just tell the public.

Then i would be able to make a qualified decision if the new features would be something i would be willing to replace my legacy units for.

If they dont release anything major, after the may cutoff, i would say, that is proof that this was an attempt to do a “money grab” rather than a technical necessity.

Isn’t this what Sonos said they were going to do? Are you suggesting that something where Sonos sort of separates the syncing functionality and other features that are device specific. That way users would opt to go with sync 1.0 or sync 2.0 if they have modern devices only. The rest of the system would update like normal with new features going to the devices that can handle them.

If that’s along the lines you’re thinking, I am not against the idea, but I don’t know if that’s a possibility. I also wonder what sort of support costs that would mean going forward if it is possible.

Lets play with this idea.

They have some newly written codebase that we will call sync 2.0 and there is simply not enough room inside the legacy products to implement sync 2.0

What they say they will do is make anyone with one or more legacy products decide between

Keep every product on sync 1.0
Update modern products to sync 2.0 and let legacy products work independently on sync 1.0 on a seperate network.

If this is the case, what i propose is that since there is plenty of flash storage on the modern products, they keep both sync 1.0 and sync 2.0 and if you only play on modern products they use sync 2.0, but if you want to play on a mix, they all default to sync 1.0

If they did this and explained to people what the difference between sync 1.0 and sync 2.0 is…..This could be higher quality audio…..Then people would be able to make a decision, based on facts and what their needs are. and not like now where no one knows why or what they get, if they upgrade their legacy products to modern ones.

Whatever “it” is, sound improvement or more stability, I think everyone will be happier if they can clearly tell the difference between legacy and modern systems after May. That seems like something that would be good for both customers and Sonos.

Sonos HAS to have something ready for May…

If all people that has only modern products get’s is small bugfixes, then it will be obvious that sonos just wanted to try and pressure people to buy new products.

The fact that they have not said anything about what is in store, points a bit in the direction, that they actually dont have anything special.

They never said anyone had to replace all their legacy devices, but I agree that they could have said it a lot better. Currently, it looks as if staying legacy is risking potential bad things happening, while going with a modern system is just maintaining status quo. There hasn’t been much of a carrot provided, other than modern device features we already know. I do hope there is a carrot involved, but they just can’t tell us yet for whatever reason. Regardless, I think it would have better to announce the change as “Sonos 2.0” then anyone with modern devices only can upgrade to, while others can stay on “Sonos 1.0”. Even without providing a reason for 2.0, just yet, I think it would have given a better overall connotation, something to look forward to rather than problems to avoid. But I don’t work in marketing.

I totally agree.

They have been far to vague about WHAT the advantages of doing the trade in and staying modern is going to be, compared to staying all-legacy. (And this is where the cynic in me says that the reason they have not told anything, is probably because there is actually nothing exciting to tell).

I am going to stay all-legacy.

I think that even if the streaming services decides to change someting in their stream, they will keep a stream with the old format, alive, if they risk loosing X hundred thousand legacy-sonos users if they go “new streaming format only”.

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Smilja

I think that even if the streaming services decides to change someting in their stream, they will keep a stream with the old format, alive, if they risk loosing X hundred thousand legacy-sonos users if they go “new streaming format only”.

The streaming services would have to support the ‘old format’ don’t you think?

Never mind, it doesn’t matter what we are trying to explain anyway because we are again back on square one in this wild-goose chase. :rolling_eyes:

There is a distinct difference between replacing products because they wear out or burn out, and replacing products because the manufacturer decides that he wants to sell you more products.

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»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)

melvimbe

I don’t know exactly what crazy big update would be, but yes, I suspect that the update is in the boxes legacy and modern devices both have for common functionality. Something along the lines of making the multiroom audio more stable, less drop outs, etc. I agree that it’s possibly not something that gets updated very often. I also think it’s quite possible that it’s something most users won’t notice any real difference between modern and legacy systems, and therefore conclude that it was not necessary.

I dont have any problems with dropouts when doing party mode i must say, i dont know if there are a lot of users experiencing this ?

I have had an issue here or there, but nothing major. And I have seen some issues reported here. Regardless, it’s just a hypothetical. I’m not trying to claim this is the reason for the change.

Me 2.

BUT even if they have some good reason to do this, i still think it would have been better to just tell the public.

Then i would be able to make a qualified decision if the new features would be something i would be willing to replace my legacy units for.

If they dont release anything major, after the may cutoff, i would say, that is proof that this was an attempt to do a “money grab” rather than a technical necessity.

I can see where Sonos would want to give us much notice as possible for the change, and shorter notification for a new product or feature. Sonos has done that previously to avoid trade secrets, slow purchase of current speakers (presumably), and avoid backlash if they miss a release date. Regardless, May is not a deadline. Nothing wrong with staying on legacy until there is compelling reason to upgrade.

As far as concluding it’s a money grab if we don’t see a major upgrade, I think that arguement gets strengthened a bit, but again, the upgrade might be something that customers won’t necessarily notice. That would be disappointing, but not proof of a money grab to me. Also possible that the major improvement comes months later, And it’s also seems like this whole process is lossing customers, minimizing or eliminating any money gain.

Isn’t this what Sonos said they were going to do? Are you suggesting that something where Sonos sort of separates the syncing functionality and other features that are device specific. That way users would opt to go with sync 1.0 or sync 2.0 if they have modern devices only. The rest of the system would update like normal with new features going to the devices that can handle them.

If that’s along the lines you’re thinking, I am not against the idea, but I don’t know if that’s a possibility. I also wonder what sort of support costs that would mean going forward if it is possible.

Lets play with this idea.

They have some newly written codebase that we will call sync 2.0 and there is simply not enough room inside the legacy products to implement sync 2.0

What they say they will do is make anyone with one or more legacy products decide between

Keep every product on sync 1.0
Update modern products to sync 2.0 and let legacy products work independently on sync 1.0 on a seperate network.

If this is the case, what i propose is that since there is plenty of flash storage on the modern products, they keep both sync 1.0 and sync 2.0 and if you only play on modern products they use sync 2.0, but if you want to play on a mix, they all default to sync 1.0

If they did this and explained to people what the difference between sync 1.0 and sync 2.0 is…..This could be higher quality audio…..Then people would be able to make a decision, based on facts and what their needs are. and not like now where no one knows why or what they get, if they upgrade their legacy products to modern ones.

Like I said, I’m not against the idea, but I don’t know that it’s possible either.

Whatever “it” is, sound improvement or more stability, I think everyone will be happier if they can clearly tell the difference between legacy and modern systems after May. That seems like something that would be good for both customers and Sonos.

Sonos HAS to have something ready for May…

If all people that has only modern products get’s is small bugfixes, then it will be obvious that sonos just wanted to try and pressure people to buy new products.

The fact that they have not said anything about what is in store, points a bit in the direction, that they actually dont have anything special.

I don’t think they have to have something ready for May, I think they need to have it annouced before May. If I remember correctly, the Sonos Beam was announced in April/May for release in July. My guess would be something like that happens.

I totally agree.

They have been far to vague about WHAT the advantages of doing the trade in and staying modern is going to be, compared to staying all-legacy. (And this is where the cynic in me says that the reason they have not told anything, is probably because there is actually nothing exciting to tell).

I am going to stay all-legacy.

I think that even if the streaming services decides to change someting in their stream, they will keep a stream with the old format, alive, if they risk loosing X hundred thousand legacy-sonos users if they go “new streaming format only”.

I can’t fault a strategy of staying all-legacy when there isn’t anything compelling enough to upgrade to modern products.

Appreciate the thoughtful conversation.

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Danny

A

attacama40

Headliner I

You are of course absolutely correct in what you say, but you are also wasting your time arguing your valid point with these people. It doesn’t matter what you say; no matter how true and correct it is they will never accept that Sonos is anything but wonderful in all their design and product and marketing decsions.

No it seems that all the critics with valid points have vanished and only the core “religious follower” group is left.

None of these people are willing to challenge anything Sonos says, in the same way that a true religious believer does not want to challenge, if what their god has said is true. :)

Today Sonos stock dipped below 10USD, and with all the talk of corona and recession i would be really worried if i was sonos.

A new recession where people looses their jobs, and the first thing people will cut down on is “luxury” and atleast price wise sonos is a luxury brand.

I wonder if Sonos will survive, first the backlash of their poor decisions and now a possible recession. One thing is for sure, the backlash at their “retirement of older products” scheme, have not helped them one bit.

Amen brother 🙂 …. but they are tenacious that’s for sure. One of the vanished :-)

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J

John B

What a ludicrous waste of time this thread has become. Is there going to be another two months of pointless speculation? See you in May.

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J

John_54

Trending Lyricist I

At the risk of being polically incorrect, the recycle/nonrecycle issue is completely irrelevant to me.I just want my 6 mixed “legacy” and “modern” Sonos products to continue to work together streaming music as Sonos said they would do when I spent a lot of money on them. If and/or when they fail to do that nothing less than a bare minimum 50% off tradeup might keep me with Sonos.

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F

Fobskid

Enthusiast I

Good item on the BBC news web site ...must read !!!

This will stop all this “PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51825089

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melvimbe

Good item on the BBC news web site ...must read !!!

This will stop all this “PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE “

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51825089

That article lacks any real detail about such a plan. Right to Repair is a bit different, and really isn’t tied to planned obsolesces. It has more to do with preventing manufacturers from attempting to block 3rd parties from repairing their products by voiding warranties, etc. Apple has been highlighted as one of the biggest offenders and have been accused of overcharging customers for repair services.

Anyway, it would be interesting to see this plan once it has some details. Is “the government” going to fine or penalize companies in some way if the products they build don’t last a certain length of time before becoming obsolete? How will they define obsolete? Will companies be required to provide a certain time period of bundled in support? Does that support mean they need to provide new features? How will a company be required to support a feature that’s dependent on a different companies service, which they cannot control? How will consumers feel about the cost increases to products in order to pay for these additional guarantees, and the likely slowdown in consumer spending, overall economy, and tech advancements?

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Danny

K

Kumar

I don’t know enough of the science behind the following statement that is therefore speculative to that extent - either we are going to have to take fairly drastic steps about how we treat the environment around us, or the environment is going to do it for us by shutting us down.

If this is more truth and less speculation, we probably don't want to be overanalysing what needs to be done, we may not have that luxury of time to indulge in that.

Notwithstanding the above, Sonos has certainly done its bit in elevating the awareness of this issue among those it touches, even if this is one of those unintended consequences that is captured in the law that relates to them.

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U

upstatemike

Maybe it will force manufacturers to use sockets for RAM and ROM chips so old devices can be expanded to current standards without needing to install excessive quanities up front simply to future proof their products. Processing power and changing radio standards might be harder to deal with though. Combining long life cycle audio components with short life cycle computing and radio parts is always going to be a challenge. A modular approach that lets you upgrade audio and computing components on different timelines is the best way to maanage change without unneccesary stress.

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Local music library with carefully constructed playlists - no shuffling!, Integration with Homeseer Automation, No touch screen devices, No streaming services, No Apple products ever

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