I just read this about your recent SEC filing:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/11/17559380/sonos-airplay-2-support-software-update-download
“We expect that in the near to intermediate term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products,” says Sonos in a recent SEC filing.
When will you let customers know about which products will be affected by this discontinuation plan? Clearly you know internally since you say in the near to immediate term this policy is going ahead. I presume for example the first gen Play 5 you no longer sell will be affected and the old Sonos Bridge.
The problem for those of us using speakers with online services such as Spotify probably means once API changes are made by the service provider, we'll almost certainly be shut out from using those services with our older Sonos speakers.
There's nothing particularly shocking about this. I'm curious what the plan is though and when we'll be told.
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The Play:5 (1st gen) was discontinued about two years ago nonetheless it's still supplied with firmware updates and upgrades. Sorry, I don't get your point.
I was not happy with the controller phase out. Not providing the expect updates to keep it running was really not smart, but considering that people have free app solution to continue running the system, ok. But to discontinue one speaker and forcing me to purchase a new speaker to keep the ecosystem that might be discontinued shortly as well ? I will probably find new market solutions that are less expensive
"Finding market solutions that are less expensive" is going to be difficult. Here's the competition:
Bose: 4th full product line revamp in 5 years, with significant compatibility problems between the lines. Slightly more expensive.
Denon: 3rd full product line revamp in 4 years, sued by Sonos for patent infringement.
Bluesound: Significantly more expensive.
Yamaha: Failed at multi-room music 3 times already.
Samsung/LG/etc.: Not even denting the market.
Meanwhile, Sonos has been in business since 2002, with products released in 2005, of which only the CR100 is not supported. They have never had a revamp of the entire line that had significant compatibility issues with older units, a brand new Sonos One or Beam can be grouped with an original ZP100 and play every source Sonos has. This cannot be said for Bose et al.
For example, Alexa and other cloud based voice control is backwards compatible to nearly 14 year old devices. It is only Airplay functionality that has been added to recent items and not to older devices due to hardware issues (and yet you can still group the older units in and play an Airplay 2 source). Can you name one brand new digital technology that is backwards compatible to 14 year old devices?
Always smart to do that when consideingr a purchase that you hope to last a long time.
But to discontinue one speaker and forcing me to purchase a new speaker to keep the ecosystem that might be discontinued shortly as well ?
Sonos has not don anything remotely similar to this in their entire history. Other companies have done similar, but not Sonos. Isn't jumping the gun a little bit to suggest that this is now the new MO?
The OP (and others) should understand that just because a product will no longer receive updates or direct support does not mean it will no longer function. For example the Playbar, Play 1, Play 3 will not natively accept Alexa voice commands nor are they natively capable of Airplay 2. However, I can command Alexa via a SonosOne to play music on a Playbar.
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
The Gen1 Play 5 had to be replaced with the Gen2 Play 5 otherwise Sonos would have fell behind the curve to offer a sonically competitive product versus other wireless (and wired) speakers.
Finally, everything reaches EOL cycle but it doesn't mean they should be tossed. I just resurrected (after 8 years in storage) a Sony DA777ES receiver (with no HDMI capabilities) to run a set of Definitive B5 bi-polar speakers and a end-table size Definitive Sub so I could incorporate a Sonos Connect. I'll probably opt for the new Sonos Amp when released in February 2019; but for now the Sony DA777ES is the go to solution.
Cheers!
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
The Gen1 Play 5 had to be replaced with the Gen2 Play 5 otherwise Sonos would have fell behind the curve to offer a sonically competitive product versus other wireless (and wired) speakers.
Finally, everything reaches EOL cycle but it doesn't mean they should be tossed. I just resurrected (after 8 years in storage) a Sony DA777ES receiver (with no HDMI capabilities) to run a set of Definitive B5 bi-polar speakers and a end-table size Definitive Sub so I could incorporate a Sonos Connect. I'll probably opt for the new Sonos Amp when released in February 2019; but for now the Sony DA777ES is the go to solution.
Cheers!
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
Actually, the Connect:amp appears to be the next product to no longer be for sale. From Ryan on the Sonos amp intor thread:
With the introduction of the new Sonos Amp, we will no longer be selling the Connect:Amp. We will continue to support Connect:Amp through ongoing software updates as part of the Sonos system for the many people who already have one at home.
It does look the play:3 is on longer being sold as well since it's not available at many locations. The play:1 seems to be surviving since it's still available a year after the Sonos One was release. I can see where it still has a place in the ecosystem for those who have no desire for voice control and/or in use as surround speakers
Actually, the Connect:amp appears to be the next product to no longer be for sale. From Ryan on the Sonos amp intor thread:
It does look the play:3 is on longer being sold as well since it's not available at many locations. The play:1 seems to be surviving since it's still available a year after the Sonos One was release. I can see where it still has a place in the ecosystem for those who have no desire for voice control and/or in use as surround speakers
I agree about the Connect:AMP being 86'd. However, I was more focused on actual Sonos speakers. It's a Sonos call...but the Play 3 (sonic capacities aside vs. the Sonos One) IMO has some worth regarding positioning. I'd prefer to see a successor for it mush in the same way as the Play 5 (Gen1 to Gen2). A smaller speaker (vs. Play 5) with good punch for horizontal and vertical positioning is still a good idea.
I replaced my Play 1's x 4 (sold em' on ebay @ $145 each before they were officially discounted) with Sonos One's as I can just turn of the Alexa microphone. However, that was a personal decision as I suspected Sonos (and retailers) would discount them after the launch of the One)
Cheers!
The Play 1 is cheaper to use as a surround speaker, lowering the cost of a 5.1 system a bit so it may hang around.
As much as I love my Play 3 pair if I was shopping today I'd be hard pressed to justify the cost over paired Play 1s on the basis of the sound delivered.
As much as I love my Play 3 pair if I was shopping today I'd be hard pressed to justify the cost over paired Play 1s on the basis of the sound delivered.
As someone said, Play 5 1st gen was discontinued for new sales. Updates are of course being provided. I have one.
The point is simple. If updates that are required to play (therefore use it) stops to be provided that will be unacceptable in my point of view.
The sonos controller is an example. If I wanted to keep using it, I would be forced to do not update all other units. There was no option to keep the controller and using updated speakers.
By the way, I don't remember any sound system, player, laptop, cellphone that was forced to stop doing what it was designed to do.
I have an old Nokia cellphone that still make calls , I have an old laptop that still turns on, play music, access internet and do all the things that I had when I purchased it. (Both are not used anymore because I decided to move on to have new features and power capacity)
And finally, I have speakers that I earned from my parents that have more than 30 years that I still use it plugged now in my connect:amp
I am not saying that it will be the future of Sonos, but if so, having units that are not able to stream because they decided so, it will be a breakthrough for me.
Alexa is fancy, voice control is nice , but I bought it to play music all of them together . If updates are required to keep it like this for 30 , 50 years, I do expect to have it.
By the way, I have the first iPod for example and it still plays very well.
The point is simple. If updates that are required to play (therefore use it) stops to be provided that will be unacceptable in my point of view.
The sonos controller is an example. If I wanted to keep using it, I would be forced to do not update all other units. There was no option to keep the controller and using updated speakers.
By the way, I don't remember any sound system, player, laptop, cellphone that was forced to stop doing what it was designed to do.
I have an old Nokia cellphone that still make calls , I have an old laptop that still turns on, play music, access internet and do all the things that I had when I purchased it. (Both are not used anymore because I decided to move on to have new features and power capacity)
And finally, I have speakers that I earned from my parents that have more than 30 years that I still use it plugged now in my connect:amp
I am not saying that it will be the future of Sonos, but if so, having units that are not able to stream because they decided so, it will be a breakthrough for me.
Alexa is fancy, voice control is nice , but I bought it to play music all of them together . If updates are required to keep it like this for 30 , 50 years, I do expect to have it.
By the way, I have the first iPod for example and it still plays very well.
If it is to move on, I will really appreciate that it is because I decided. Based on new powerful and well developed Sonos products, as I did when I left out my old sound bar (with subwoofer) and purchased the Sonos playbar .
Or when I put aside my sound system and purchased my first connect:amp
Or when I put aside my sound system and purchased my first connect:amp
Sonos is not a speaker, so expecting it to be like a speaker is nonsense. Sonos is an integrated multi-room music streamer, with significant reliance on an external ecosystem which includes things like cloud services, streaming services, voice services, etc. To expect 13+ year old technology to operate within this ecosystem in perpetuity is not only unrealistic, it is foolish. To expect it to be like the old pair of Advents you bought back in 1972 is downright absurd.
Furthermore, to expect Sonos to continually support every software/firmware release which occurs prior to an older unit no longer being supported is also unrealistic. Sonos is a for profit company, and how much profit is to be made if they waste manpower on a configuration which will eventually lose most if not all functionality, for a forever dwindling user base, who by definition will never buy another Sonos device? Answer: Not much.
Furthermore, to expect Sonos to continually support every software/firmware release which occurs prior to an older unit no longer being supported is also unrealistic. Sonos is a for profit company, and how much profit is to be made if they waste manpower on a configuration which will eventually lose most if not all functionality, for a forever dwindling user base, who by definition will never buy another Sonos device? Answer: Not much.
I have a gen 1 Sonos 5 and 1. They are paperweights! I only have access to Verizon Elipsis Jetpack wifi and Sonos does not support the use of the Elipsis Jetpack with its gen 1 speakers. The Jetpack has no cat 5 plug so the speakers cannot be setup. sol
You could use a laptop and cat5 from that to a sonos Ethernet port to set them up.
Actually a mobile phone is now the preferred option to set sonos up easily, no firewalls etc etc..
Actually a mobile phone is now the preferred option to set sonos up easily, no firewalls etc etc..
There's nothing particularly shocking about this.
Of course it's not without risk for Sonos. Once we start getting cut off, some of us will evaluate whether we want to stay in the Sonos ecosystem. I certainly won't be adding to my Sonos setup with new speakers until I know what Sonos plans are for handling this.
I just wanted you to know I completely agree with you and have ran into some of the same problems. Sonos is constantly preventing older devices and operating systems from controlling their speakers. They claim it's the OS and device manufacturers fault but that doesn't fly when one day the app is working fine and the next not working at all because of a speaker firmware update. There needs to be a simple way to prevent updates to both the speakers' firmware as well as the apps on any device being used to control the speakers. While there is an option to prevent updates under the Android OS there seems to be no option in the Windows 7 version of the app to do the same so there is no way to avoid the prompts to upgrade the app or firmware using a Windows laptop. They need to leave well enough alone but I suspect they are probably patching more security flaws in the version of Linux or whatever other OS the speakers are using internally more than they are adding features, however they will likely never admit it. They are pursuing a one size fits all strategy that is likely to end in their demise.
Just to bump this old thread. Very pissed off now that my Sonos Play 5 Gen 1, bought just seven years ago, is effectively obsolete. Sonos inform me that I now have the choice of junking it or not allowing my whole system to update.
I used to rave about Sonos to other people. I’d now suggest they approach with caution because I suspect this is a policy designed to extract ££. What do you reckon? Am I wrong?
Before anybody says “just seven years ago?’… yep. I don’t think that kind of lifetime is remotely acceptable these days.
I Agree, absolutely shocking of Sonos to do this. I just got the email. Affects 6 of my devices. 3 Play 5 Gen 1, Conencct, Connect:amp, Play 3………
They should figure out that many many people will want to use these so called ‘legacy’ products for many many years - maybe 10,20,30,40 years - indefinitely. They should figure a way for the s/w updates to only happen to the newer products but keep the older products working, there is noting wrong with them - talk about wasting the planet’s resources. Come on Sonos - get a grip on yourself!
I will not bin my old products, so will just stay on the older os with the ‘legacy’ units until sonos try to kill my system, and then they will be facing a legal case……..
I’ve been with Sonos for 20 years now. I’ve purchased just about every product you’ve ever made from the beginning. Over $10,000 worth of your equipment and I’ve sold even more for you with recommendations. I’ve already thrown away the Controller 100, two Controller 200’s and 3 Bridges. Now you want me to “Upgrade” and give you more money. I’m finished. Bluesound here I come. It’s better anyway. It has High Resolution.
Yes… it’s exactly that. Waste. I can remember having a conversation at Richer Sounds* about this when I bought my first speaker and basically being told they were future proof.
*UK reta
What this will have me do is consider non-Sonos products that are Sonos compatible to replace my two Play:5 speakers. I’m looking at Ikea’s Symfonisk bookshelf speakers.
I was an early adopter of several Sonos products and have purchased quite of few of them between 2013 and 2017. So this unexpected notice of the end-of-life of three of my products (one Bridge I still use, and both Play:5 speakers) is sad and will likely be costly.
Sonos also needs to do a better job of letting Bridge owners know there is an update to the Bridge, the Boost, and provide a “trade-up” discount for current owners of EOL Bridges to the Boost.
I understand that tech advances. But I’m not happy about this and am thinking through options.
Just to bump this old thread. Very pissed off now that my Sonos Play 5 Gen 1, bought just seven years ago, is effectively obsolete. Sonos inform me that I now have the choice of junking it or not allowing my whole system to update.
I used to rave about Sonos to other people. I’d now suggest they approach with caution because I suspect this is a policy designed to extract ££. What do you reckon? Am I wrong?
Before anybody says “just seven years ago?’… yep. I don’t think that kind of lifetime is remotely acceptable these days.
Willwriter, I agree 100%.
Such a poor strategy from Sonos to force customers to remove Play 5 speakers from their Sonos system or forgo any future updates to their entire fleet of systems devices. I have been using Sonos for around 6 years and have 7 devices now, I’ve loved it and been a strong advocate for the brand, but there’s no way I’ll buy another device or recommend Sonos now, this feels like such a cheap move.
I work in IT and understand the need to lifecycle manage HW products out, but for me 6 years of useful life is on the lean side. Plus I refuse to believe that there is not a way to keep “legacy” units as part of a system but perhaps just don’t roll new features and functionality out to those particular items.
Hopefully somebody in Sonos product management reads this thread, because I don’t think willwriter and I will be the only 2 people who are angry with this.
For what it’s worth I thinks Sonos is great value and good sounding kit at the price point and would continue to add / evolve my system if there was some supported option for the legacy devices as described above, but if not I’ll be looking into the myriad of competing devices that are catching up to Sonos in the price/performance and tech features set; for any future purchases.
Sonos, I expect that many of your loyal customers will now consider their options and you may end up with a scenario where second hand product is flooded onto the market making for seemingly good buying for any prospective new Sonos customers out there; that’s gonna slow new product sales… and when they discover you will soon EOL the Gen2 Play 5’s and other products (Gen1 Playbar and Sub 
)… what happens next?
Could this be the beginning of the end for Sonos???? Maybe I’m just being dramatic... but I am pretty bloody annoyed.
Sonos is not a speaker, so expecting it to be like a speaker is nonsense. Sonos is an integrated multi-room music streamer, with significant reliance on an external ecosystem which includes things like cloud services, streaming services, voice services, etc. To expect 13+ year old technology to operate within this ecosystem in perpetuity is not only unrealistic, it is foolish. To expect it to be like the old pair of Advents you bought back in 1972 is downright absurd.
Furthermore, to expect Sonos to continually support every software/firmware release which occurs prior to an older unit no longer being supported is also unrealistic. Sonos is a for profit company, and how much profit is to be made if they waste manpower on a configuration which will eventually lose most if not all functionality, for a forever dwindling user base, who by definition will never buy another Sonos device? Answer: Not much.
Pardon me but Sonos calls their products “speakers”.
Would have no problem with this if across very webpage and ad that Sonos (and every other company offering similar ‘ecosystems’), presents to the buying public it was very prominently made clear that it was “a licenced hardware ecosystem reliant on ongoing hardware support which will eventually inevitably be withdrawn as specific hardware is deemed by Sonos to have become obsolete for whatever reason”, even if on a ‘long’ life cycle.
They don’t do that because they know that if they did, their market (and the whole market for similar systems) would not have grown to the extent it has. Such conditions will no doubt be buried within the small print of the licence but they know that no-one reads that when looking at the glossy ads or are in an outlet about to purchase.
I have two Sonos systems in different locations and one of those, in a large urban location with a lot of wifi competition, the signal, with or without a boost, is not strong enough to serve data fast enough to all speakers around the house concurrently and this one is a only an 8 speaker system although I can only get up to 3 speakers to work concurrently without dropouts. Something else the “up to 32 devices claim ” and “stream...cwirelessly] all around your home” advertising fails to highlight.
In the other rural location with different layout Sonos works pretty well - but the knowledge that this is always on a knife edge and can still encounter regular blips, spoils the whole thing.
Having invested heavily I will do the best I can with the speakers I have and will adapt to get them to work for as long as possible but I have now decided that I will buy no more. I might even resort to wiring some of them but that sort of defeats the obviously major selling point of a ‘wireless’ system.
These are the conceits of this model of music ‘delivery’.
At some point I suspect I’ll be going back to the old way of doing things probably with a number of Brennan B2’s or somesuch, around the house and my Sonos components will, one by one, gradually be added to a large scrapheap.
Absolutely seething. Having invested thousands of pounds into this future proof, problem free streaming system beginning in 2015, I’m now about to be held to ransom to the tune of £1,500.00 if I wish to continue using the other 3/4’s of my system? That’s absolutely outrageous, bordering on criminal.
I don’t want voice assistants, I’m not bothered about new features, and if I am, I’ll upgrade accordingly. The speakers I’ve invested in should work to the best of their ability until mechanical failure. This is forced obsolescence.
I very nearly purchased another set of Play 5’s and a Beam recently so I can move the older players around and increase coverage in the house, and was considering a couple of Move’s for the kids, absolutely no chance of that now. I’ll be searching for an alternative and off loading my Sonos ASAP.
I’m disgusted.
Just to bump this old thread. Very pissed off now that my Sonos Play 5 Gen 1, bought just seven years ago, is effectively obsolete. Sonos inform me that I now have the choice of junking it or not allowing my whole system to update.
I used to rave about Sonos to other people. I’d now suggest they approach with caution because I suspect this is a policy designed to extract ££. What do you reckon? Am I wrong?
Before anybody says “just seven years ago?’… yep. I don’t think that kind of lifetime is remotely acceptable these days.
Totally agree and with the comments by others about how environmentally unfriendly and utimately, unsustainable this model is.
My legacy products are less than 2 years old! - bought in 2018.
And they look identical to (and where sold as the same as) the exact same components sold a few months later but which are considered “modern”. Shame on
I have audio system components that are decades old and still working just fine.
Why would anyone invest many thousands of dollars in the SONOS proprietary systems when they are clearly being sold as a short-life disposable product?
...I will not bin my old products, so will just stay on the older os with the ‘legacy’ units until sonos try to kill my system, and then they will be facing a legal case……..
How do you do that when Sonos now insists on updating or withdraws your ability to use the system by disabling functionality?
I am sure that Sonos and other similar companies have covered themselves in the licence agreements we all consent to when LICENCING these products from Sonos (we do not buy them). Something else that is not made utterly transparent in the very slick marketing.
Just had a post pulled, probably for telling some invonvenient truths about this….hope it is only being checked before being posted
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