Good evening all,
Firstly I'm new on here ( hello all ) so hope this is posted in the right section!
I am not new to HiFi equipment or wireless speakers ( I have had a rather bad habit for the last 20 years ) and have had and sold more stuff than I care to think about, but I am new to Sonos, well until this weekend that is! I wanted to share the following with you as I cannot see anywhere on the forums or the net a Naim vs. Sonos comparison.
Sunday afternoon, following a trip to my local John Lewis I returned home with a Play 5 Gen2 (£389) and the relatively new Naim Qu So QB (£595). I couldn't decide which one to go for and having any sort of meaningful demo was hopeless, Sonos Play 5 was connected to a Play 1, Play 3 and a Sonos soundbar which all seemed to playing at the same time on the Sonos stand, despite me trying to isolate the Play5 and even trying the line in option with the 3.5mm jack I brought with me as a last resort.( plus someone was streaming what sounded like Bangra music at a stupid level in the next isle on a BeoPlay A2, all very annoying ).
I went in to listen to the Mu-so QB and the bigger brother Mu-So (£895) and to be honest the new Zepplin ( sorry all, not the face.......). So I'm stood in front of the Mu-So QB and I'm streaming a few of my tried and tested "test" tracks from Spotify (offline) via Bluetooth and I am thinking to myself "that's not great". I would just like to mention at this stage that I did listen to the QB in Superfi Nottingham about a week ago and they had it hard wired and were streaming Hi Res ( not sure what format ) files to it and I must say whilst I wasn't crazy on the looks, it did sound pretty impressive. Hence the trip to JL to listen to it again but this time via Bluetooth.
For background, I wanted something to replace the Revo Superconnect I have in the kitchen dinner and because I have been really happy with this for 12 months I was initially thinking the new Revo SuperSystem (rrp £550 I think ). I wanted something to fill the room better, I don't always agree with What HiFi but with the SuperConnect they got it spot on IMO, for the size of it the sound is pretty impressive ( to my ears anyway ). 3 or 4 years ago I started out with the Audio Pro all room One ( as my first "proper" wireless speaker, which did sound good and for the money is probably the best I'd heard until now, however if the wind was blowing in the wrong direction the airplay would drop out, app was terrible so in the end like so much of my other stuff I sold it on Ebay ( still have the Revo, 2 sound bars, 2 amps, a 5.1 system, Monitor audio book shelf speakers, Monitor Audio S150, C.Audio Go, plus various headphones, not to mention the system in the garage, I think you all get the picture, and that is after a de-clutter!! )
So back to the QB test, so I'm standing there and all of a sudden a track came on behind me and I "thought blimey that sounds good", I turned around and low and behold it was the Play 5 Gen2. I would just like to say at this point that Sonos had not actually been a consideration despite the excellent reviews for the Gen2. My Boss has his whole house wired up with Sonos, all Gen 1 and whilst I liked the concept I always felt the sound was a bit, muffled sounding, lacking detail and clarity. So after finally turning all the other Sonos speakers off so it was just the Play5 playing, I was seriously impressed with what I was hearing. Now I appreciate that this was hard wired and the QB was via Bluetooth but it was literally night and day! With the Bangra still blaring I decided that the only way to really do a test was at home. Long story short, after ascertaining that I could take both home and return the one I didn't want for a full refund, off I went with a box in each hand ( both are reassuringly heavy ) and £984 lighter, with slight trepidation that I wouldn't get my refund like they promised, made worse as I had put them both on my wife's card!!!
Back home, set both up side by side. QB via Spotify connect, Play5 via Sonos APP and Spotify through that. Demo tracks, tried and tested ones, back to back comparison and I can conclude that the Sonos for me sounds better. The QB sounded slightly muffled again, made me think back to when I first heard my bosses Sonos system. My mate said the same when he popped over the following day, he is a big B&W fan, has had the A5, A7, original Zepplin etc, he always said I should have kept the Audio Pro, but heh ho ). He is getting the new Zepplin on demo from B&W ( he spoke to them today and they said that the A7 is now obsolete ) so if anyone hasn't killed themselves after reading this I'm happy to report back on that when he brings it over at the end of the week to compare to the play5. I did listen to the new Zepplin through the 3.5 jack in JL and it did sound good ( treble slightly harsh I noted ), but better than the QB which I also tried using the 3.5 jack.
Sonos 5 goes deeper than the QB by some way and just has more presence and clarity to my ears, I am amazed by the bass response on the Play5 on some of the tracks I played, Sharpness by Jamie Woon being one of them. ( I will also add that the EQ is on standard neutral setting for the Play5 throughout for the test with loudness on ) on the QB you only seem to be able to turn loudness on/off, no EQ settings I could see on the Naim app ( which does look good and functions well )
I am sure that some of the Naim faithful will tell me that the QB needs to run in ( and I know it does ) but out of the box the Sonos has it beat in every area, and lets face it is £210 cheaper. Hard wired with Hi Res tracks I don't dispute that the Naim might have the edge, but in the real world that's not how I listen to music these days! I have all my music ripped to lossless files but I simply can't be ars*d with all the faffing about. Open Sonos app, Spotify and it's on straight away with Sonos and I like that. Even though I am still getting used to leaving it on at the wall.
There is a downside for me with the Play5 Gen2 however, I can't pretend that I am happy with the Sonos App and the Spotify integration. Like many have said already my Playlists are all over the place with Spotify through the Sonos APP, ( I have loads of them and spent many hours collating them ) plus no iplayer Radio ( I have read on here that it might be coming soon, fingers crossed ) isn't great for me either as I do like to listen to catch up, but I suppose I can do that in my office when working from home which is where the REVO is going. I am also considering a short - medium term work around for airplay to use the native Spotify app and iplayer either with Airport express or the much cheaper Chromecast Audio. ( I read if you disable compression you won't lose audio quality ) but I just can't get my head round wiring in with 3.5mm jack, it's not what I bought it for ( maybe I should have read more about Sonos before I bought it ) but as I said already Sonos wasn't even on my radar until Sunday. I'm not Sonos bashing for the record and have signed up to help out with any new Beta's to try and help things along as I honestly feel the guys have done a fantastic job with the Play5 Gen2, I really think for the money it is a great speaker and it hasn't dropped out yet which is encouraging considering my kids are caning the fibre constantly streaming movies on their ipads. It's just a few niggles as mentioned that are taking the shine off for me, Spotify being the main one to be honest.
As I sit here typing this listening to the speaker I really want to stick with it and hope for future upgrades to iron out the problems as I'd like to add another play 5 after we extend the kitchen, but there is still a little part of me that is considering taking it back. But what then, the Denon Heos offering, the Bluetone range....?
Thanks for reading and I hope it proves to be of interest to some of you.
P.S. I like that fact that there is interaction with people from the Sonos team on the forum, makes me think that Sonos are actually bothered about what their customers think!
JB
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JB (Always Searching),
It's quite clear from your post, that Sonos has already got its hooks into you and that you are at the start of the road to 'addiction' in regard to these speakers.
I recall that feeling ...and it's true the new Play-5 does sound great by comparison to all other speakers of comparable dimension and cost. The Play-5 will sound even better as a 'stereo pair' in your home and I have little doubt you will not be satisfied, until you have been out and purchased it's twin brother... The planned holiday can wait till next year !!
Okay, so the next step after that is that you will then want that same great sound quality in your kitchen, your dining room and your bedroom and before you know it, along will come some Play-1 babies. All will sing (sync) in perfect harmony with the rest of the family and your own family and friends will be in complete awe of your audio sound system.
Yes, you may encounter a few issues along the way, as you decide to plug in your HD smart TV and playbar Dolby 5.1 surround systems, or you decide to extend your music to outside the house into the garden, for that family summer barbecue, but that's all part of the enjoyment.
The reason you have decided to post here my friend, on the Sonos Community Forum, says it all... You have already made your decision.
I'm also quite sure we will hear more from you in the coming weeks and months... Your journey into the world of Sonos, is just beginning.
My view here, is that you have made the right decision.
Ken Griffiths
It's quite clear from your post, that Sonos has already got its hooks into you and that you are at the start of the road to 'addiction' in regard to these speakers.
I recall that feeling ...and it's true the new Play-5 does sound great by comparison to all other speakers of comparable dimension and cost. The Play-5 will sound even better as a 'stereo pair' in your home and I have little doubt you will not be satisfied, until you have been out and purchased it's twin brother... The planned holiday can wait till next year !!
Okay, so the next step after that is that you will then want that same great sound quality in your kitchen, your dining room and your bedroom and before you know it, along will come some Play-1 babies. All will sing (sync) in perfect harmony with the rest of the family and your own family and friends will be in complete awe of your audio sound system.
Yes, you may encounter a few issues along the way, as you decide to plug in your HD smart TV and playbar Dolby 5.1 surround systems, or you decide to extend your music to outside the house into the garden, for that family summer barbecue, but that's all part of the enjoyment.
The reason you have decided to post here my friend, on the Sonos Community Forum, says it all... You have already made your decision.
I'm also quite sure we will hear more from you in the coming weeks and months... Your journey into the world of Sonos, is just beginning.
My view here, is that you have made the right decision.
Ken Griffiths
Thanks for your reply Ken, I suspect you may well be right on all counts
Your welcome JB - it's when you add more speakers to the family, that Sonos really comes into a world of its own.
I'm not in any way affiliated to the company by the way, but another thing you said is true that there are Sonos Support staff here on the forum and they and the community are slwsys keen to help if the need ever arises.
The phone support is excellent too.
Ken Griffiths
I'm not in any way affiliated to the company by the way, but another thing you said is true that there are Sonos Support staff here on the forum and they and the community are slwsys keen to help if the need ever arises.
The phone support is excellent too.
Ken Griffiths
Welcome to a nasty addiction JB. Before you know what's happening Sonas is breeding quietly and auddenly more speakers appear.
The system does have its compromises as it works differently to other speakers - the speaker fetches what it plays rather than being sent it. The controller takes a while to get used to, especially the queue.
Enjoy it!
I'm not sure if Trueplay works on a single speaker but if it does, run it.
The system does have its compromises as it works differently to other speakers - the speaker fetches what it plays rather than being sent it. The controller takes a while to get used to, especially the queue.
Enjoy it!
I'm not sure if Trueplay works on a single speaker but if it does, run it.
The system does have its compromises as it works differently to other speakers - the speaker fetches what it plays rather than being sent it. The controller takes a while to get used to, especially the queue.
In your opinion. You may have found the queue difficult to get used to but for some of us it was a revelation, leading to the desire that all music players worked like Sonos does.
I'm not sure if Trueplay works on a single speaker but if it does, run it.
Yes of course it does, be a bit pointless if it didn't.
One really good feature of the Play-5, JB, which you briefly touched-on in your original post, is the line-in port on that speaker. Whatever you plug into that port, whether it is a Chromecast Audio dongle, Airport Express, a DVD player or other device. The audio that passes through that port can be played on any Sonos Product ... Not just the Play-5 speaker that hosts it.
So for example, you could plug in an Apple Airport express into your Play-5 in the living room and send any AirPlay audio from your iPad or iPhone apps etc to the Airport Express device... But instead of playing that audio on your Play-5, you can play it on another Sonos product for example a Play-1 Speaker in your bedroom. In fact you can choose to play the audio from the Airport express on more than one Sonos speaker ... Upto 32 different speakers in fact and it will all sync perfectly across all your Sonos devices.
So don't poo poo the line-in feature on the Play-5 ... It's very powerful analog stereo audio in its own right. Another reason to grow your family of Sonos devices.
Ken Griffiths
So for example, you could plug in an Apple Airport express into your Play-5 in the living room and send any AirPlay audio from your iPad or iPhone apps etc to the Airport Express device... But instead of playing that audio on your Play-5, you can play it on another Sonos product for example a Play-1 Speaker in your bedroom. In fact you can choose to play the audio from the Airport express on more than one Sonos speaker ... Upto 32 different speakers in fact and it will all sync perfectly across all your Sonos devices.
So don't poo poo the line-in feature on the Play-5 ... It's very powerful analog stereo audio in its own right. Another reason to grow your family of Sonos devices.
Ken Griffiths
Hi BoredofBaltham, did you mean "airplay" not trueplay?
As LHC said trueplay works with a single speaker, although it told me that it only made a very minor adjustment after I ran it.
Couldn't connect this morning but I think it was a router issue not a Sonos issue, all seems fine again now after reinstating the Sonos to the main router, in my excitement to set it up on Sunday I let it ( in error ) set itself up to the wifi extender in the dining room which isn't a good idea I know, but it was working fine so I just left it.
As LHC said trueplay works with a single speaker, although it told me that it only made a very minor adjustment after I ran it.
Couldn't connect this morning but I think it was a router issue not a Sonos issue, all seems fine again now after reinstating the Sonos to the main router, in my excitement to set it up on Sunday I let it ( in error ) set itself up to the wifi extender in the dining room which isn't a good idea I know, but it was working fine so I just left it.
Always Searching,
It is good practice (if possible) to have one single Sonos product cabled-in to your router, because it invokes the onboard sonosnet network.
Some people are lucky and have their router near to a speaker, whilst others go out and buy the Sonos boost device to plug-in instead.
Once sonosnet is up and running you can go into the Sonos Controller software settings and reset/forget your own home wifi network ... In effect it separates out the Sonos speakers in your own home, which then all connect together through what people term here as 'the sonosnet mesh'. It effectively is a robust wireless network link between all the Sonos devices and runs them all exclusively and without interference from the devices on your home network.
It will effectively make your wireless speaker links very stable. It's something worth considering once your Sonos products begin to grow throughout your home.
Ken Griffiths
It is good practice (if possible) to have one single Sonos product cabled-in to your router, because it invokes the onboard sonosnet network.
Some people are lucky and have their router near to a speaker, whilst others go out and buy the Sonos boost device to plug-in instead.
Once sonosnet is up and running you can go into the Sonos Controller software settings and reset/forget your own home wifi network ... In effect it separates out the Sonos speakers in your own home, which then all connect together through what people term here as 'the sonosnet mesh'. It effectively is a robust wireless network link between all the Sonos devices and runs them all exclusively and without interference from the devices on your home network.
It will effectively make your wireless speaker links very stable. It's something worth considering once your Sonos products begin to grow throughout your home.
Ken Griffiths
Thanks Ken, that might be a good shout if I continue to get issues, although I'm hoping that as its now in the main router and isn't too far away it should be more stable now!
Thanks for sharing such an in depth story and review JB, we love seeing this sort of post. Please let us know if we can help with anything, and welcome to the community!
No problem Ryan, thanks for your comment. looking forward to hearing when the higher res Bbc radio streams will be available through tunein. That plus a few tweaks on spotify to get the playlist folders to display instead of a long list of albums and I'm perfectly happy! Catch up bbc radio would be the cherry on the cake.
Hi JB,
I feel compelled to reply to your post given my recent experience with the naim QB. My post is along the lines that you mentioned “the Naim faithful will tell me that the QB needs to run in..”. I fall into this category having used naim equipment for the over 20 years now. However, in my defence I have recently packed my eldest off to university with a couple of Play 1’s which I think sound superb.
I bought the QB three weeks ago for the kitchen. The QB was an easy decision for me, given that I have a naim streamer in my main system and this now gives me multi-room.
My experience with all naim kit that I have bought over the years, almost without exception, is that it takes 2-3 weeks to come on song. Performance fresh out of the box is usually a big disappointment and this is often still so after a few days of use.
I did wonder if it might be different with the little QB. It hasn’t been. Out of the box and even after a week, it sounded boxy, as you say muffled, with confused bass and generally unengaging. I too would have sent it back if this hadn’t changed. Happily, now after a few weeks, it is really starting to sing! High highs, low lows, very musical and engaging. I’m very happy and it’s not going back. :-)
I haven’t heard the Play 5 and can’t offer any comment and that’s not the purpose of my note. I feel sure it’s a fine piece of hi-fi equipment from the accounts I’ve read. Rather to say that to really make a fair assessment you need to hear it in your own home and crucially, if it’s brand new, give it time to run in. With naim equipment this can be weeks not days.. otherwise you’re just not hearing it perform as it was designed to..
That said, it’s all about the music…happy listening with your Play 5!!
Rich.
I feel compelled to reply to your post given my recent experience with the naim QB. My post is along the lines that you mentioned “the Naim faithful will tell me that the QB needs to run in..”. I fall into this category having used naim equipment for the over 20 years now. However, in my defence I have recently packed my eldest off to university with a couple of Play 1’s which I think sound superb.
I bought the QB three weeks ago for the kitchen. The QB was an easy decision for me, given that I have a naim streamer in my main system and this now gives me multi-room.
My experience with all naim kit that I have bought over the years, almost without exception, is that it takes 2-3 weeks to come on song. Performance fresh out of the box is usually a big disappointment and this is often still so after a few days of use.
I did wonder if it might be different with the little QB. It hasn’t been. Out of the box and even after a week, it sounded boxy, as you say muffled, with confused bass and generally unengaging. I too would have sent it back if this hadn’t changed. Happily, now after a few weeks, it is really starting to sing! High highs, low lows, very musical and engaging. I’m very happy and it’s not going back. :-)
I haven’t heard the Play 5 and can’t offer any comment and that’s not the purpose of my note. I feel sure it’s a fine piece of hi-fi equipment from the accounts I’ve read. Rather to say that to really make a fair assessment you need to hear it in your own home and crucially, if it’s brand new, give it time to run in. With naim equipment this can be weeks not days.. otherwise you’re just not hearing it perform as it was designed to..
That said, it’s all about the music…happy listening with your Play 5!!
Rich.
I have no Naim experience in all my audiophile meanderings, but with my extensive range of other kit used I realised in time that running in was the process by which the brain gets used to the new sound that is almost always the result of a speaker change.
I agree with all you have said on the home being the ideal place to assess the sound quality of Sonos kit, but I have found that the running in thing for Sonos is on the same lines as it was every other new speaker I have laid my hands on and used. It isn't that the speaker does anything different in time, it is that one gets used to how it sounds. At most, a new speaker may need a few hours to get its moving parts to settle down, but for electronic kit like amps, there is nothing to run in. Audiophiles of course will claim that even speaker cables need time to run in and give of their best!
In my youth, I worked at a high end audio/video/media store. I was in the computer department, but was great friends with the commission sales people in a/v. I learned a lot about sales techniques and strategies at that job. One of the worst things to have on your sales record was a high percentage of turnover, or returned items. Coincidently, it was the "expert" opinion of these a/v sales people that the break-in period for high end electronics just happened to correspond with the period of time that a returned item would not count against ones sales record. 😉
Hi,
Blimey – I’ve never posted onto an audio forum thread before, be it on a naim or sonos forum or anywhere else.. I expected it to be quietly ignored.. thanks for the quick response guys..
I’m just saying what believe to be going on from my experience – I certainly don’t profess to be an expert. Certainly my brand experience is pretty limited.. as you'll begin to see below.. On the odd occasion when I've tried something different I've regretted it. Although not so with my daughters Play 1's.
Kumar re electronics - I have had just the same experience with changes in electronics (not speaker cables I hasten to add), not only from new, but when I’ve had my amps re-capped – this running with the same pair of speakers I’ve had for the last 15 years.. (albeit having had the tweeters and crossovers replaced a few years ago).
You make an interesting argument “that one gets used to how it sounds”, one that is difficult to argue against, perception it everything – right? I’ve certainly not had the means to scientifically measure any differences.
Does anyone from Sonos comment on these threads? If so it would be interest to know if there is measurable difference between brand new equipment and equipment that has be used for weeks and months. Also, something I’ve often pondered – if there is, which I believe (perceive) there to be, how’s is this dealt with during product development?
If I don’t hear anything I might make this my first post onto the naim forum.
Rich the impostor.
Blimey – I’ve never posted onto an audio forum thread before, be it on a naim or sonos forum or anywhere else.. I expected it to be quietly ignored.. thanks for the quick response guys..
I’m just saying what believe to be going on from my experience – I certainly don’t profess to be an expert. Certainly my brand experience is pretty limited.. as you'll begin to see below.. On the odd occasion when I've tried something different I've regretted it. Although not so with my daughters Play 1's.
Kumar re electronics - I have had just the same experience with changes in electronics (not speaker cables I hasten to add), not only from new, but when I’ve had my amps re-capped – this running with the same pair of speakers I’ve had for the last 15 years.. (albeit having had the tweeters and crossovers replaced a few years ago).
You make an interesting argument “that one gets used to how it sounds”, one that is difficult to argue against, perception it everything – right? I’ve certainly not had the means to scientifically measure any differences.
Does anyone from Sonos comment on these threads? If so it would be interest to know if there is measurable difference between brand new equipment and equipment that has be used for weeks and months. Also, something I’ve often pondered – if there is, which I believe (perceive) there to be, how’s is this dealt with during product development?
If I don’t hear anything I might make this my first post onto the naim forum.
Rich the impostor.
Sonos are first and foremost a company staffed by engineers. Given their objective stance on audiophile nonsense like Hi-res, I would suspect they would go the scientific route and say that although there is some evidence that physical components like speakers could "break in", the likelihood of it being audible is slim to none.
The speaker break in time you guys are talking about does exist to a degree. Mostly it is just the suspension and sometimes a bit with the cones. The material of the speaker cone also can loosen up a bit sometimes, adding a slightly lower tone. But all that depends on a lot of factors.
Personally I'd say a good bit is just getting used to the new sound more than anything. But there are some technical bits to the audio changing a little over time too sometimes.
As far as Sonos goes, we meticulously designed our products to not need to be broken in. That way you get consistent results from the time you pull it out of the box or 10 years down the line. Also, that way you can take a PLAY:1 home and pair it with another a year later and they'll sound the same and be a perfect match for stereo.
Personally I'd say a good bit is just getting used to the new sound more than anything. But there are some technical bits to the audio changing a little over time too sometimes.
As far as Sonos goes, we meticulously designed our products to not need to be broken in. That way you get consistent results from the time you pull it out of the box or 10 years down the line. Also, that way you can take a PLAY:1 home and pair it with another a year later and they'll sound the same and be a perfect match for stereo.
Ryan, Thanks that's interesting and settles that I guess.. for Sonos equipment at least :)
I'm tempted to ask about the Hi-Res comment, but I fear jgatie has me on the hook and is just enjoying reeling me in.. :)
So I wont and I'll bow out gracefully.
Cheers guys..
I'm tempted to ask about the Hi-Res comment, but I fear jgatie has me on the hook and is just enjoying reeling me in.. :)
So I wont and I'll bow out gracefully.
Cheers guys..
Also, that way you can take a PLAY:1 home and pair it with another a year later and they'll sound the same and be a perfect match for stereo.
To the latter, after the little loosening you refer to?:)
IMO, the results of that, if any, aren't audible. More seriously, this also points to speaker signature being dependent on things like cabinet design, speaker cone configuration/specs, design of crossover/DSP used, and less on exactly which internal components are used; if it was the latter, every component change because of sourcing issues would affect the sound signature.
Alan Shaw, the designer/owner of Harbeth speakers, makes the same point on his forum where he says - no running in required to obtain the designed sound from any of his speakers.
But audiophilia drives strange beliefs and behaviours, with enough people to exploit every one of these; like the sellers of CDs containing sound designed to expedite the running in process:-).
As to the thread, the OP has said is that he prefers the Sonos sound signature to the Naim one. Some will go the other way in this subjective preference of course, but those that do prefer the Sonos sound will not see their preference changing just because the Naim has run in, or because it is being fed Hi Res via wired connections. The caveat to the latter: provided that the Sonos is getting the same recording/master in a 16/44 format, wireless or wired.
I'm tempted to ask about the Hi-Res comment, but I fear jgatie has me on the hook and is just enjoying reeling me in.. :)
Wait wait WAIT!!! Don't leave !! We need many more people with this much wisdom on this message board :D
Thanks to the OP for the post and Ryan for your additional comments... an interesting read...
Did you have the Muso "close to wall" setting correct.
I have a Muso connected into my Sonos System with an old bit perfect ZP90 (Toslink in bit perfect mode) and it knocks a single Play 5 2nd Gen into a cocked hat. At a recent New Years Eve party I could not believe how loud the Muso could go with no apparent distortion.
I would add that the stereo pair of Play5 2nd Gen that I have in another room make a very acceptable replacement for separates.
The convenience of having the Muso as part of the Sonos system using the ZP90 is great but I appreciate not a cheap option.
Don't for one minute write off the Naim Musos. Naim are not in the business of producing inferior equipment.
Now has anyone been able to use a stereo pair of Devialet Silver Phantoms with Dialog fed by a bit perfect ZP90?
I have a Muso connected into my Sonos System with an old bit perfect ZP90 (Toslink in bit perfect mode) and it knocks a single Play 5 2nd Gen into a cocked hat. At a recent New Years Eve party I could not believe how loud the Muso could go with no apparent distortion.
I would add that the stereo pair of Play5 2nd Gen that I have in another room make a very acceptable replacement for separates.
The convenience of having the Muso as part of the Sonos system using the ZP90 is great but I appreciate not a cheap option.
Don't for one minute write off the Naim Musos. Naim are not in the business of producing inferior equipment.
Now has anyone been able to use a stereo pair of Devialet Silver Phantoms with Dialog fed by a bit perfect ZP90?
Don't for one minute write off the Naim Musos.
An unanswered question I had asked about the Muso when it was first compared to Sonos kit; it seemed like a strange combination of features to me when I first came across it - in that the only way to get a stereo image from it is to sit very close to it, but the benefit from the extra power it has to deliver high undistorted sound levels is only usable when one is far away from it to the extent that it then becomes a point source that cannot deliver a stereo image. And I doubt it can be stereo paired in the way Sonos play units can be. Therefore, for obtaining a stereo image that can fill a larger room than a 5 pair, it isn't the answer.
Also I do not doubt that it can go very loud without distorting but is that all it has to offer in terms of better sound quality? If one was to place a new 5 unit and the Muso, side by side, and play these up to the volumes that the 5 can deliver without distortion or losing bass energy, and then compare the two in a level matched blind test, which one would come out ahead? I am speculating here, but it would not surprise me to find that it would come down to personal preferences, with some preferring one and some the other. For example the OP preferred Sonos.
Note that it has to be a blind test - else the more expensive looking Muso will bias the results.
Now has anyone been able to use a stereo pair of Devialet Silver Phantoms with Dialog fed by a bit perfect ZP90?
The same question here as well; has anyone done a blind sound level matched comparison of this set up with a gen 2 5 pair, with volumes limited to how loud the 5 pair can go without either distorting or losing bass energy?
Every review I have seen raves over the Phantoms, but is it just that they can go louder than other kit, without distorting? And that they look cool?
Hi all,
I haven't been on here for a while, I got an email yesterday saying someone had responded to my original thread which I thought has long since dead, it appears not :)
I just wanted to make a few general comments as it's been a while since I posted this.
Firstly, Ken Griffiths you were right I have bought some more SONOS kit since then. My wife works for BT and they had an employee offer on ( -15% discount ) so bought x2 Play 1's and a Playbar. Then bought a customer returned Play 1 in J. Lewis for £130 ( couldn't resist ).
We're having an extension at the moment but prior to that I had the x 2 Play 1's in stereo on one side of a large kitchen / diner and the Play 5 Gen 2 on the other side and I've been very happy with that. The 3rd Play 1 is in the bedroom.
I must say for £130 ( or even the rrp £169 ) the Play 1 really does take some beating, even more impressive considering it has been around for a while now. I haven't come across anything at the at price level to compete with it ( and believe me I've looked around )
Rich "RicL" thanks for your comments and I don't disagree with what you say in the main. To be honest, at the time I was a little worried about having 2 relatively expensive speakers and I suppose I rushed to take one of them back being concerned that J. Lewis would be funny about giving me a full refund. Since then I have inspected and even bought a few items that are so called "customer returns" from JL and I can say they vary hugely from as new ( as per my Play 1 ) to items that appear to have been used for a long time ( in the case of a wireless keyboard I bought and then returned for that very reason ) - I now always insist on them opening up the packaging for inspection prior to purchase!
But to get back on topic, out of the box the SONOS sounded much better and I stand by my initial decision to go for the Play 5 Gen 2 and I have not regretted that decision. I do agree though that some speakers do need some "running in" and some need more than others. As Ryan S commented I don't think any of my SONOS required any really, although I took it steady for a while, more common sense than anything, you wouldn't buy a brand new car and then trash it all the way home after leaving the garage ( well most sensible people wouldn't ). The other reason for posting was to say that I recently bought a DALI Kubik for the new living room ( not the face!!! ) to replace the Playbar. The Playbar is moving into the "new" family room and will form part of a multi system with the kitchen along with the Play 5 Gen 2 and the x2 Play 1's.
At this stage I just want to make the point that when I got the Playbar setup initially I was a little disappointed with the sound quality and based on reviews it is fair to say I expected more. What I did realise quite quickly was that the Playbar's sound varies a lot depending on the source input. To go further, that can even be whilst watching the same channel on HD TV. You can watch something thinking that the sound is a little "lack lustre" on a particular show, then the adverts come on and "bang" everything changes completely. This of course I appreciate is nothing to do with the Playbar.
The reason for responding actually is to say that when I finally setup the Kubik last night and turned it on, I felt very much like I did the day I turned on the Playbar. However the difference being, after about 3 hours of medium volume playback I could really hear things improving. Finished with an episode on Netlix last night and it was starting to get nearer what I was hoping for, It does say in the manual that things will continue to improve during the first 50 hours of "running in". As someone commented above you do get used to the sound. I'm at that stage with the Play 5 actually. At first I was like "wow" now it's just normal, not detracting away from the fact that it is still a great speaker, I'm just used to it now. Until I put something next to it and do a comparison it will stay that way. The one that continues to impress me is the Play 1.
My mate who I refereed to in the original post recently bought a high end pair of open back headphones ( Audeze I think ), they were about £650 on offer at a show in London. He listened to them for ages at the show and we went back and forth listening to other brands together. Once home he was a bit deflated so bought a headphone amp/dac to drive them and then was happier and was raving about them for a while afterwards. Long story short, he returned them in the end as I think after he got "used to them" plus he had a hard time justifying an expensive pair of headphones that he can't listen to in bed as they leak too much and his wife gets p*ssed off!:(
lastly, I have been very happy with the simplicity of the SONOS kit and recent software improvements have been welcome ( in particular the Spotify update to play directly to a speaker ) as this was a massive deal for me early on not being able to access my multiple playlists and subfolders properly. So well done to the SONOS team for that. Also it is fair to say that the speakers almost never drop out from WIFI ( unless the microwave is on 😉 ), which is more than I can say for the other Airplay & Bluetooth speakers I'd had before this SONOS setup.
JB
I haven't been on here for a while, I got an email yesterday saying someone had responded to my original thread which I thought has long since dead, it appears not :)
I just wanted to make a few general comments as it's been a while since I posted this.
Firstly, Ken Griffiths you were right I have bought some more SONOS kit since then. My wife works for BT and they had an employee offer on ( -15% discount ) so bought x2 Play 1's and a Playbar. Then bought a customer returned Play 1 in J. Lewis for £130 ( couldn't resist ).
We're having an extension at the moment but prior to that I had the x 2 Play 1's in stereo on one side of a large kitchen / diner and the Play 5 Gen 2 on the other side and I've been very happy with that. The 3rd Play 1 is in the bedroom.
I must say for £130 ( or even the rrp £169 ) the Play 1 really does take some beating, even more impressive considering it has been around for a while now. I haven't come across anything at the at price level to compete with it ( and believe me I've looked around )
Rich "RicL" thanks for your comments and I don't disagree with what you say in the main. To be honest, at the time I was a little worried about having 2 relatively expensive speakers and I suppose I rushed to take one of them back being concerned that J. Lewis would be funny about giving me a full refund. Since then I have inspected and even bought a few items that are so called "customer returns" from JL and I can say they vary hugely from as new ( as per my Play 1 ) to items that appear to have been used for a long time ( in the case of a wireless keyboard I bought and then returned for that very reason ) - I now always insist on them opening up the packaging for inspection prior to purchase!
But to get back on topic, out of the box the SONOS sounded much better and I stand by my initial decision to go for the Play 5 Gen 2 and I have not regretted that decision. I do agree though that some speakers do need some "running in" and some need more than others. As Ryan S commented I don't think any of my SONOS required any really, although I took it steady for a while, more common sense than anything, you wouldn't buy a brand new car and then trash it all the way home after leaving the garage ( well most sensible people wouldn't ). The other reason for posting was to say that I recently bought a DALI Kubik for the new living room ( not the face!!! ) to replace the Playbar. The Playbar is moving into the "new" family room and will form part of a multi system with the kitchen along with the Play 5 Gen 2 and the x2 Play 1's.
At this stage I just want to make the point that when I got the Playbar setup initially I was a little disappointed with the sound quality and based on reviews it is fair to say I expected more. What I did realise quite quickly was that the Playbar's sound varies a lot depending on the source input. To go further, that can even be whilst watching the same channel on HD TV. You can watch something thinking that the sound is a little "lack lustre" on a particular show, then the adverts come on and "bang" everything changes completely. This of course I appreciate is nothing to do with the Playbar.
The reason for responding actually is to say that when I finally setup the Kubik last night and turned it on, I felt very much like I did the day I turned on the Playbar. However the difference being, after about 3 hours of medium volume playback I could really hear things improving. Finished with an episode on Netlix last night and it was starting to get nearer what I was hoping for, It does say in the manual that things will continue to improve during the first 50 hours of "running in". As someone commented above you do get used to the sound. I'm at that stage with the Play 5 actually. At first I was like "wow" now it's just normal, not detracting away from the fact that it is still a great speaker, I'm just used to it now. Until I put something next to it and do a comparison it will stay that way. The one that continues to impress me is the Play 1.
My mate who I refereed to in the original post recently bought a high end pair of open back headphones ( Audeze I think ), they were about £650 on offer at a show in London. He listened to them for ages at the show and we went back and forth listening to other brands together. Once home he was a bit deflated so bought a headphone amp/dac to drive them and then was happier and was raving about them for a while afterwards. Long story short, he returned them in the end as I think after he got "used to them" plus he had a hard time justifying an expensive pair of headphones that he can't listen to in bed as they leak too much and his wife gets p*ssed off!:(
lastly, I have been very happy with the simplicity of the SONOS kit and recent software improvements have been welcome ( in particular the Spotify update to play directly to a speaker ) as this was a massive deal for me early on not being able to access my multiple playlists and subfolders properly. So well done to the SONOS team for that. Also it is fair to say that the speakers almost never drop out from WIFI ( unless the microwave is on 😉 ), which is more than I can say for the other Airplay & Bluetooth speakers I'd had before this SONOS setup.
JB
Also, that way you can take a PLAY:1 home and pair it with another a year later and they'll sound the same and be a perfect match for stereo.
To the latter, after the little loosening you refer to?:)
IMO, the results of that, if any, aren't audible. More seriously, this also points to speaker signature being dependent on things like cabinet design, speaker cone configuration/specs, design of crossover/DSP used, and less on exactly which internal components are used; if it was the latter, every component change because of sourcing issues would affect the sound signature.
Just to clarify here, that loosening isn't something to expect on Sonos. We invest a lot of effort in the material properties of everything that goes into the speaker so we know that the materials we're using will react the same way their whole lives. It's all designed to be easy and so you don't have to be concerned about this sort of thing.
The loosening on materials is often slight and it only some material is affected this way. For many speakers you won't notice this, and as we all know, a lot of factors are involved. Besides, everyone hears things slightly differently.
Great discussion all around everyone! And JB, thanks for coming back in and sharing such a detailed post. Hope to see you around some more!
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