Using Move with WiFi extender

Hi @AjTrek1 

I’ll look into the extender and to whether DHCP can be disabled. I’m not sure I follow your logic though, if the extender is providing an IP address then why did the Play 5 work using the exact same set up, I.e. located in the same position, connected via the same extender with the same settings? Also, why, when in the conservatory with the Move speaker do the other 2 speakers remain visible in the App? Also, would what you describe not affect other wireless devices connected in the same manner, for example a smart TRV?

Hi @Sonosmark 

When you had a Sonos speaker wired to your router all Sonos was using the SonosNet which by-passed your home wi-fi including the extender.  By your own admission the extender is the root of your issue. Read your comment below: 

The extender was removed (unplugged), Playbar which was hard wired to router was disconnected. App was reset and reconfigured using WiFi (no SonosNet). System worked in all instances I.e. Move speaker remained visible on App, Move speaker could be moved outdoors and back in and Alexa ‘remained’. Speakers could be grouped and music streamed. After approx 4 hours the extender was plugged back in. Approx 1 hour late the Move speaker had ‘disappeared’ from the App, presumably after picking up the stronger signal from the extender?

No matter how you resist...you will not resolve your issue until you ether remove the extender or disable it’s DHCP.  Other wi-fi devices that are not trying to sync in unison throughout your home (like Sonos) are not affected when jumping from router to extender and vise-versa to a noticeable extent.

I have a Mesh network with a main router and two nodes (or as you might call them extenders). Only the main router has DHCP capability. My Sonos operates on the SonosNet with the exception of my two Moves on wi-fi. All show in the Sonos app.

No offense intended but my suggestion is too enlist the aid of a knowledgeable friend if you are unable to resolve the DHCP issue with your extender.  Let us know how things sort out.

I’ve mentioned the names of some of the other knowledgeable community members who may see this and chime in.

@melvimbe @Airgetlam @John B @Ken_Griffiths 

Cheers!

Sonosmark,

The below views/suggestions are entirely my own and please note they may contradict other peoples viewpoint, which should also be considered carefully, as there are a number of ways to perhaps approach and solve your issue.

First thing to add, is that a Sonos Move does not run on SonosNet (WM: 0) - it will only run on a 2.4ghz or 5ghz WiFi Signal. I recommend using the 2.4ghz band in this situation. The reason the Move does not use SonosNet is that it is designed as a portable/moveable device that can be carried around the home and the last thing needed, is it interrupting/breaking any existing SonosNet communication between other fixed Sonos devices as it is moved around the premises. So it will only run on a 2.4ghz or 5ghz WiFi signal and note that the network/band it is using is shown in the Sonos App "Settings/System/Network/Networks". 

If using SonosNet for the rest of the system, then ensure the SonosNet channel is set at least 5 channels away from the main routers 2.4ghz WiFi channel, which should ideally use one of the non-overlapping channels - 1, 6, or 11 and be ‘fixed’. I recommend using a channel width of 20 MHz for that band and 40MHz channel-width for the routers 5ghz band.

Sonos Controllers locate the Sonos Household devices using SSDP, (the UPnP discovery protocol). This is sent as UDP multicast and broadcast on the subnet and I think a ‘possible suggestion’ here  might be that the the mobile controller is connecting to one access point and the speaker is perhaps connecting to another (different) access point and for some reason the local WiFi network system is not allowing successful SSDP communication, or the packets are being severely interrupted over the power-line communication link.

I’ve seen similar issues quickly resolved in the past (in the main Sonos community) by running all devices on SonosNet instead, but clearly that is not achievable with a Sonos Move, but would be with a Sonos Play:5, for example.

If a WiFi access point is used, it is usually best to use a wired 3rd party device that links directly back to the main router, or a WiFi Repeater. 

The most problematic WiFi access points can be power-line adapters that run over electrical ring mains etc; as they can in some instances appear to often work okay, but signal dropouts/interference can occur over such links unless the cables are well shielded ...and usually they are not.

When configuring a nearby access point, I personally choose to use the same WiFi SSID credentials/password/subnet and I ensure they run on the same WiFi channels, with the same channel-width for both the 2.4ghz & 5ghz bands as precisely set on the main router, but even then, if using a non-ethernet linked access point back to the main router there can be dropouts, particularly with a power-line linked WiFi adapter as there are many variables where signal interference can occur.

Such devices are clearly mentioned in the Sonos System requirements as not being supported. See the following link:

Sonos System Requirements

That said however, in some circumstances these devices may still work, but it very much depends on the 3rd Party device itself and also it’s operating environment.

I would try to ensure any WiFi adapter is setup to mirror the main router’s WiFi signal exactly as described, including using the same subnet, channels and channel-width and if it still doesn’t work, then the answer is to perhaps try the device in a different (nearby) power outlet, or consider using a different type of access point.

Please note (important), I’m assuming in the situation mentioned here, that the 2.4ghz WiFi signal from the main router is insufficient strength to reach the Sonos Move device satisfactory in the room where it is to be used.

If there is no desire to run ethernet cables to the location there are some other options that can be  considered...

1. If the problem persists after correct configuration with the power-line WiFi adapter, I would consider changing the access point and perhaps try a WiFi repeater/extender instead, operating as a ‘man in the middle’ between the main router and the Move.
2. If practicable try using a WiFi access point cabled to a nearby/closest Sonos Speaker that is running on SonosNet, it’s not ideal, but may work better than a power-line adapter WiFi access point.

I hope the above suggestions help to provide some further ideas to perhaps try.

Hi @AjTrek1 

Firstly, if my previous post upset or offended you please accept my apologies as this was certainly not my intention. From experience the expertise and advice from fellow users is by far second to none. Indeed, I find more and more these days that manufacturers are tending to step away from product support in favour of forums such as this. Personally I find this attitude sickening especially when you take into account the amount of money spent on these products. So again, sorry.

I sort of answered my own questions from my last post, after posting realising, as you say, that the Play 5 was very probably connected via SonosNet. With regard the TRV in the conservatory this is connected to its own network via a hub (TADO). The ‘smart’ socket in the conservatory I feel will probably work however it is connected to a WiFi network.

From the research I have been able to do so far, I do not think the Powerline adaptor has DHCP capability but will continue to investigate this. At the moment I have been unable to get access to the settings so am reliant on web information. What I did try was moving my Play 3 speaker into the conservatory this morning and found this continued to be seen in the App.

@Ken_Griffiths 

Thank you also for reaching out. Your post is quite long but very informative so will a take a little more reading to fully digest. I fully understand your reservations with regard the powerline adaptors. As an electrician I still wonder as to the safety of the things!! It took some time for me to go along this route but have been using them now for several years and have to admit they do work very surprisingly well.

Update

So, after moving the Play 3 into the conservatory and finding it was still visible in the App I realised that the Move was also visible in the App when I was OUT of the conservatory, I.e. connected to the main router WiFi. What I also noticed whilst checking my heating system was that there was a period of time when the TRV’s had been offline. On further investigation I found that the router had been down for approx 30 minutes during the night.

So, my set up is still exactly the same, the only thing that has changed is that the router has rebooted. Going back to what @AjTrek1 had said in point 3 of an earlier post, this, it would appear, fingers crossed, may have solved the issue. Presumably from this, DHCP at the extender is either non-existent or not a problem? Either way, for now everything is working as it should which is good as I like the concept of the Move (I had originally been contemplating getting a Play 1 for use outside), the portability is a great bonus.

Thank you all for your help so far. 

Hi @Sonosmark 

I took no offense to your posts. My apologies if my response(s) led you to believe so. Glad to know that your Sonos is working as you desire 😀. 
 

Yes, @Ken_Griffiths response was a mini novella. However, if he is anything it’s thorough and that is why he is one of the most respected members of the community. Thanks @Ken_Griffiths for lending your voice. Well done! 😁👍

Cheers!

It’s perhaps worth bearing in mind here, that where you now have this fully working Play 3 Speaker running on SonosNet in the conservatory, that the speakers ethernet port can be used to connect a (wired) Wifi access point, which in turn will link any connected devices back to the Router over the SonosNet signal. Just something you could perhaps utilise to possibly improve the WiFi connection, perhaps?

Hi @AjTrek1 & @Ken_Griffiths 

Quick update as my previous update was unintentionally misleading. I’m not sure as to how or why everything seemed to be ok yesterday morning, it may have been down to the router going offline or it may have just been a glitch. However, now things are back to ‘normal’!!

What I have discovered (and learnt a lot) is that the IP address is definitely provided by the main router and is not altered by the extenders. Yes, I have 2, I’d forgotten about the one upstairs which is integral to a socket outlet. What appears to be happening is that the extenders are replicating the main network using the same SSID and password so devices are connecting using an IP address from the main router. (Turns out the Playbar is on the main router network, the Play 3 is on the upstairs extender and the Move is on the conservatory extender!!!) The extender ‘networks’ seem to be networks within a network and although all are the ‘same’ network they are somehow separate. Moving around the house with a device works as it will reattach to the stronger signal (this also explains why there is sometimes a ‘dropout’ which I’ve always blamed on the ISP). 

Anyway, although the setup works I’ve also learned quite a bit from this experience so am intending to upgrade and install a mesh network which should overcome all the above.

Hi @Sonosmark 

Glad to know that you’ve figured out the cause of your issues. Switching over to a Mesh network is a good idea. 

FYI, some Mesh networks while good for whole home coverage can still be problematic for Sonos. I too run a Mesh network but to eliminate any issues with my Sonos I have a Sonos Boost module wired to the main router thus creating the SonosNet. You can create the SonosNet by wiring a speaker but I find the cost of the Boost module ($99 USD) a good investment to allow freedom of Sonos speaker placement.

I’m typing this on my cell phone which makes it a bit difficult to insert links. That said you can click on the Sonos Support link (instead of Community) and type “change Networks” in the search field.  You’ll see links on how to properly switch Sonos when changing networks and/or routers.

Once again congratulations on getting your Sonos running properly.

Cheers!
 

Do you mean the standard and boost modes FAQ?

@Sonosmark 

The links suggested by @Airgetlam are of good note as well. In the grand scheme you can switch Sonos over to your Mesh by typing the generic phrase I suggested. If you run into issues with Sonos (on the Mesh) then you might consider changing Sonos over to wired/boost mode by using the link supplied by Airgetlam.

Sonos is so versatile...sometimes to its own detriment...making it difficult to know where to start. However, that’s where the brilliant minds of the likes of Airgetlam (and myself) are here to help navigate the waters. LOL   

Cheers!