Question

Chromecast in S2 / Honest timeline for Chromecast

F
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Hello,

Agenda: Chromecast support on Sonos.

I’ve been reading through this forum about this topic, and basically can’t find any clear answer - apart from ‘we’ll pass this request to developers’.

As an iPhone user I know I can use Airplay however I don’t find it a very good solution; I get a phone call, music stops, walk out the house, music stops, not to mention my battery constantly draining.

Additionally as good (in its own way) the Sonos app is, many services don’t give their respective platforms enough attention, rather spending it on their native apps - many of which support Chromecast.
e.g. I often find myself on Soundcloud native iOS app, find a set I want to listen, but then have to go into Sonos’s app and search it again. Similar use case with YouTube music, and Youtube in general, need to use Airplay.

So I’d like to ask:

  • Are there are Sonos developers here who could comment on the challenges of implementing Chromecast and what the potential timeline of release (if its realistically possible) looks like.
  • Otherwise, would be very keen to hear from other users what the technical/business limitations for not implementing it.
  • Would the S2 operating system surprise us all with it?

Cheers,

FP.

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34 replies

Smilja

The rightsholder Google would be required to allow the integration, and work close with Sonos on it.

Why do you think Chromecast would not drain your phone’s battery? Trust me, it would.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
F
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Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

F
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Woooh - update!

I just tested, looks like Airplay 2 behaves differently. I’m playing a song on Soundcloud, Airplay2 from my iPhone, placed a phone call, been running fine now for 1min 46 seconds. (wonder how long the buffer is there? Or is it really pulling directly from the source)

Lets test Youtube now.

F
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Hmm, just remembered Youtube can’t play in the background without a premium subscription, so Chromecast holds a +1 there.

F
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Just tested another app and again was able to take a phone call whilst music played in the background. (feeling rather happy now lol)

Another question comes to mind then (maybe this isn’t the best forum to ask though) - is Airplay 2 really pulling from the source, or is this is a case of a long buffer being set somewhere?

melvimbe

Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

 

Can’t say if this works for Soundcloud as I don’t use it, but many service allow you to cast from their apps directly to Sonos.  Amazon, Pandora, and Spotify all do this.

Danny
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I guess Airplay 2 kind of works, although if phone switches off, music ends. Also curious to see what happens if I leave my place - will it remain playing.

F
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Of course, my 3 bullet points in the original post stand - if anyone has any info on those - appreciated.

Smilja

Hmm, just remembered Youtube can’t play in the background without a premium subscription, so Chromecast holds a +1 there.

 

And you think using Chromecast would circumvent Google’s Terms of Service regarding Youtube?

 

Because Chromecast (unlike Airplay) is not sending the actual data stream from my phone to my Sonos system, rather providing the Sonos system with the information of where to fetch from - hence I can switch my phone off/quit the app - preserving battery.

 

On Android one is able to cast Google Play Music directly to Sonos using the built-in Chromecast extension as long as the Android device is online and connected to WiFi.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
F
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@Smilja 
Yes - I have tested this in the past with Chromecast Audio - I was able to play music from Youtube and quit/minimise the app - the app just acted as the remote control.

Smilja

Another question, how would you control playback (skip, stop, changing source, volume level) when the phone is being switched off?

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
Sjoop1985

I don't know if the Chromecast Audio works differently, but from the normal Youtube app, I can only cast to video Chromecasts, not to Google Home speakers. I don't see how that would be any different if Sonos were to implement the Cast protocol on their speakers.

Just using the Cast protocol to do what already be achieved natively in the Sonos app, or in Spotify, Pandora et. al. is really not what I would be looking for, and potentially confusing for users, difficult to support for Sonos. The only added value of Cast would be to cast audio directly from your device, which, as mentioned before, would drain your battery. I have never seen any necessity for it.

 

I either search for something within the Sonos app, or if I find something on a native app that I want to play on Sonos, I will add it to a playlist or favorite, or any other construct from the service that is easily accessible in Sonos and then initiate play through Sonos. Yes, it requires a few more clicks, but generally, streaming natively through Sonos provides me with the smoothest, most reliable way of streaming.

 

Of course, my 3 bullet points in the original post stand - if anyone has any info on those - appreciated.

You are not going to get any answers on those here. Like any sensible company, Sonos does not share roadmaps publicly. Any employee or programmer that went on these communities to disclose information, would quickly find themselves no longer working for Sonos, I presume.

A users perspective on the business reason for not having Cast on Sonos:

Google.

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans (John Lennon) --- Living room: Arc, Sub, 2x One - Kitchen: One - Bedroom: Play 3 - Office: Beam - Bathroom: Play 1
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“Nest Hub Smart Display with Google Assistant”, or any Google/Nest Home device, can use your Sonos device as its Default Speaker.  No ChromeCast required for this, and, IME, much more reliable than ChromeCast.

melvimbe

Just using the Cast protocol to do what already be achieved natively in the Sonos app, or in Spotify, Pandora et. al. is really not what I would be looking for, and potentially confusing for users, difficult to support for Sonos. The only added value of Cast would be to cast audio directly from your device, which, as mentioned before, would drain your battery. I have never seen any necessity for it.

 

I either search for something within the Sonos app, or if I find something on a native app that I want to play on Sonos, I will add it to a playlist or favorite, or any other construct from the service that is easily accessible in Sonos and then initiate play through Sonos. Yes, it requires a few more clicks, but generally, streaming natively through Sonos provides me with the smoothest, most reliable way of streaming.

 

With Amazon casting, you can basically do the same thing with less steps.  You won’t have to add to playlist/favorite  then go to the Sonos app to playback.  You can just press the cast button and select the speaker you want it to play on.  I find myself casting at times because I was listening through the phone away from home, and now I want to finish playback on Sonos.  I also want the ability to add a track to Amazon’s ‘My Music’ not just to be able to play it on Sonos more easily, but for all device everywhere.  I can also download tracks to a USB more easily later, for use in my vehicle.

 

I don’t always use it, even fact I find myself using Sonos Radio often, or voice controlled requests, but it’s nice to have as an option.

Danny
P

I’ve been waiting for the Chromecast support as well but I don’t think it’s going to happen with S2 :(

I hadn’t realized that you can cast from Spotify and Google Play Music, let’s see if they add the option to Youtube Music once Play Music is buried for good.

There’s still a ton of apps and users that would benefit from the Chromecast support. Harman Kardon has Chromecast support…

 

Moderator edit: Removed profanity

Airgetlam

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

Bruce
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@Airgetlam 
Interesting - I never knew that. So out of interest what is it on Google’s side that needs to be implemented?

F
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Also as a general answer to my original post:

Airplay 2 basically solves this whole scenario for me. I wasn’t aware what I fundamentally disliked about Airplay has been solved with Airplay 2 - I can take calls, make videos etc whilst using it, also it doesn't appear to be draining my battery as hard - feel as if its pulling music directly from the internet rather than passing bit by bit through my phone (but haven’t yet fully researched into the technical workings of it).
(I’m yet to test Youtube Music directly from their native app, which has background play, but generally feel that will be ok too).

Of course, Chromecast would be great, but that feels now more of a nice to have (at least under my use case) :)

M
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Woooh - update!

I just tested, looks like Airplay 2 behaves differently. I’m playing a song on Soundcloud, Airplay2 from my iPhone, placed a phone call, been running fine now for 1min 46 seconds. (wonder how long the buffer is there? Or is it really pulling directly from the source)

Lets test Youtube now.

Turn off your phone - if it still plays it’s working like Chromecast, if it doesn’t it is going through your phone.

Acquire
Userlevel 1

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

M
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Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

So far as I can tell, Google is keeping Chromecast hardware-based. That is, there is no software-only implementation that I am aware of at this point. All of the devices that tout “Chromecast built-in” have some form of hardware that probably Google provides or controls. 

 

I don’t think SONOS will have Chromecast capabilities. If you definitely want such, you can go these routes:

1- Get a Chromecast Audio dongle (discountinued but can be found on Ebay) and connect it to a Port, Amp or Connect (2nd gen for S2) via it’s analog audio output

2- Same as above but connect it via toslink (optical digital) to a Playbar or (via the optical-HDMI adaptor) to an Amp, Arc, etc via HDMI

3- A Chromecast built-in TV (with either built-in or via a Google Chromecast dongle) then to an Amp, Arc, etc via HDMI

 

I think realistically these are your only options.

M
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So far as I can tell, Google is keeping Chromecast hardware-based. That is, there is no software-only implementation that I am aware of at this point. All of the devices that tout “Chromecast built-in” have some form of hardware that probably Google provides or controls. 

BTW, I think the “Chromecast method” of having authentication and routing similar to Spotify Connect but working for a host of apps is absolutely brilliant. And I don’t think anyone else but Google can truly pull this off, as all of these apps have had to implement the token exchange. So I truly understand why you really want this.

melvimbe

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.

 

 

Sounds like you’re saying that Google defines the standard API? Kinda odd way of looking at it.  Also not sure what ‘many services’ you’re referring to.  And yes, Sonos has their own APIs, but they shown willingness to use others, like airplay 2, when it makes sense to.  That makes me think lack of chromecast with Sonos isn’t due to disagreements on what API to use. 

 

  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

So if Google defines the standards and won’t work with non-standard, i.e. not their own, integrations, you’re saying they won’t do integrations unless it’s done their way.  And not sure what casting implementations you’re referring to.  Most of casting done to Sonos is an actual transfer of playback from a device to Sonos, so that the original device is no longer needed for playback.  I’ve done with Amazon, Pandora, SXM, and never run into issues.

Danny
Acquire
Userlevel 1

Sonos has already written the API for this, as you noted that others have implemented it. It’s down to the folks at Google to implement what’s already been written. Feel free to be angry with Sonos, but they’ve done their part of the code base. 

They've built a non standard API adding more work for every integration.  Many services don't support it because it's not a standard Chromecast implementation.

 

 

Sounds like you’re saying that Google defines the standard API? Kinda odd way of looking at it.  Also not sure what ‘many services’ you’re referring to.  And yes, Sonos has their own APIs, but they shown willingness to use others, like airplay 2, when it makes sense to.  That makes me think lack of chromecast with Sonos isn’t due to disagreements on what API to use. 

 

  Google seems to have no interest in supporting non standard integrations anymore. Google Play Music is official dying this year and the replacement, YouTube Music, which has been out for a while, has no Sonos Casting support. Most of the Sonos "casting" implementations I've used are flakey at best too vs a real Chromecast implementation.

So if Google defines the standards and won’t work with non-standard, i.e. not their own, integrations, you’re saying they won’t do integrations unless it’s done their way.  And not sure what casting implementations you’re referring to.  Most of casting done to Sonos is an actual transfer of playback from a device to Sonos, so that the original device is no longer needed for playback.  I’ve done with Amazon, Pandora, SXM, and never run into issues.

Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

melvimbe

Google built the Chromecast. So yes, they define the standard. Not complying to the standard won't get you Chromecast support. This is fully on Sonos to comply to get it working.

As I stated before, I doubt disagreement on the API is the reason there’s no chromecast/Sonos integration.

Danny
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