SONOS on fully wireless network and Connect:Amp use in surround sound

Good luck. I fail still, fairly regularly. Too many years of using the incorrect terms. 

Well, it appears I don’t know as much as I thought about SONOS networking. After reading the hints in the postings and performing a little more research, it seems my SONOS system is not running on SonosNet but over my home shared network. Am I right though that the SONOS devices communicate with each other over a mesh network created and exclusive to the SONOS devices?

Also, I have been trying a few things from the postings. However, I may have misunderstood Bruce’s comments about ethernet wiring to the devices. I tried connecting via ethernet between the Connect: AMP device and my Playbar but when I tried to change the Connect:AMP setting in the SONOS app from Enable Wi-Fi to Disable Wi-Fi it tells me the device must be connected to a router. My thought was that the ethernet connection between the Playbar and Connect: AMP would provide a wired channel for the 5Ghz surround signal being generated by the Playbar to carry the surround signal to the Connect: AMP. Didn’t happen.

So I see in the postings that the Connect: AMP should be wired via ethernet to the Playbar and the Playbar should be wired via ethernet to my home router. Would someone better in the know explain electronically how the 5Ghz surround signal reaches the Connect:AMP device so that the surround works? Again, my TV receives all its signals wirelessly from my T-Mobile Home Internet router and the TV provides the sound signal to the SONOS Playbar via an optic cable.

You all have been great in you hints and suggestions. Thanks for your input. 

P.S. I also have a SONOS Connect device which provides surround in another room and is connected to a Yamaha receiver’s speaker ports. Am I understanding it right that if I connect that device to my home router it means, as I think 106rally mentioned in that post, that my SONOS ecosystem will now be a SonosNet? And if that’s true how does that change things as far as surround enabling.

Apologies, but let me clear a number of misconceptions in your post.

If you have no Sonos device wired to your router, then all communication between your Sonos device (except bonded surrounds and Subs) occur on your WiFi network.

SonosNet happens only when one (or more) Sonos devices is connected to your router with an Ethernet cable. At that point, all of your Sonos device ‘see’ the existence of SonosNet (again, not the bonded devices, we will get to those shortly) and communicate across the mesh network that is SonosNet. This pulls all of this traffic off of your WiFi (but not off of your router itself). 

Bonded devices alway connect directly to the device they are bonded to, and receive data from the ‘parent’ device, not only music, but IP addresses (I am not trying to confuse you, I swear!) as well. 

In order for your CONNECT:AMP, which has no 5Ghz channel built in to it (it was designed long before those things were affordable, and before Sonos had made any soundbars) to connect properly to your soundbar, both the CONNECT:AMP and the soundbar need to be connected to your router. The normal surround signal is being sent out by the soundbar is on the 5Ghz channel, but the CONNECT:AMP can’t see that signal, so both devices need to communicate with each other, so both devices must be wired to the router.

There isn’t any time in which you would wire between the Sonos soundbar and the CONNECT:AMP. The signal must go through the router.

I think I hit everything…but if I didn’t explain it well enough, please tell me.

And yes, if one Sonos device is wired, then every Sonos device is on SonosNet, as @106rallye said. That doesn’t, however, change anything about wiring both your soundbar and CONNECT:AMP to the router. Home Theater data (the surround data) does not travel on SonosNet. 

Bruce,

Thanks for that explanation. So let me feed back what I think I understand now and you can correct me if I am still off;

Fact one; when I connect my Sonos device(s) directly to my router via ethernet it will establish the SonosNet.

Fact two; both the Connect:Amp and Sub will be bonded to the Playbar via the Sonos app setup. And at that time the Playbar will know the IP addresses of both devices.

Fact three; now the Playbar can/will send the 5Ghz surround to both bonded devices (Connect:Amp and Sub) over their now known IP addresses via the router. This is true for both music coming from a Sonos app source (e.g. Pandora) via the router as well as TV sound coming to the Playbar via its optic wired connection to the TV.

Are my facts now straight?

So, one thing (maybe more) I'm not quite clear on, what is the purpose/function/benefit of the SonosNet?

Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Fact one: correct

Fact two: correct, mostly. But we’re getting into minutiae at this point. The PLAYBAR will be sending date via 5Ghz to the SUB, and to the router for the surround data, the router then knows to pass that on to the CONNECT:AMP.

Fact three: no. 5Ghz is a radio frequency channel. While the SUB data is carried from the PLAYBAR to the SUB, there is no ‘5Ghz’ that travels along the Ethernet cable, since it’s a wire. The rest of that statement is correct, your router acts as an intermediary between the PLAYBAR and the CONNECT:AMP, for both music and home theater purposes.

Gah. Now you’re asking for opinion, so here is mine: SonosNet was invented back in the beginning when most WiFi network hardware was not as advanced or capable as it is now. SonosNet also takes the music from your WiFi signal to a separate signal, which back in the day relieved extra traffic from congesting many folks WiFi. Also, SonosNet puts the devices into a network that is one of the earliest ‘mesh’ networks, where each device not only receives, but broadcasts the SonosNet network, which often helped many systems receive a stronger signal (remember, WiFi networks back in the day weren’t like they are now). 

Sonos appears to be moving away from SonosNet these days, or at least some of the hardware that provided it. Originally, there was the BRIDGE, which was not a speaker, but merely a device that connected to your router and created the SonosNet signal. This has long been supplanted by the BOOST, which does the same thing, but faster, and with better hardware. The BOOST appears to have been discontinued in the last couple of months.

However, Sonos also made it possible that most of their speakers could initiate a SonosNet signal, just by wiring them to your router. So you didn’t need either a BRIDGE or BOOST to have SonosNet.

The most recent Sonos speakers no longer function with SonosNet at all. Which is why I think in five or seven years, it will be effectively extinct. And yes, I use it in my home. Rather than a speaker, I have a BOOST wired to my router.

I’d encourage you to read this answer about SonosNet as well.

None of us know for sure, since we aren’t Sonos employees, the real ‘truth’ about why it is, or why it is going away, but we al have our own opinions on it. Don’t assume, just because I say things with a voice of authority, that I’m right. Form your own opinions. Keep your mind open to other view points ;)

Bruce,

Thanks again for your quick response. Very helpful. Now I know some things I must do. I just have to work out the physical locations of the equipment that will accomodate connecting to the router via ethernet. I didn't know some of these requirements when we had our home prewired and my ISP and their provided equipment has changed characteristics also. The ISP supplied router, which receives its 5G signal from a cell tower, has to be located where it can get the best signal. Unfortunately that location is not near any of my prewired ethernet locations. So I'm going to have to get creative.

Lastly, and not really on the same topic and this may be an opinion answer also. Is there any real benefit updating to the S2 version of Sonos? As with alot of these kinds of changes, I'm a little apprehensive for fear of that crashing my older system. The Sonos app indicates my equipment is compatible with S2.

Note that 5G for cell reception has little to do with 5 GHz WiFi. 

None of your Sonos devices would try to connect to a cell signal, and your surrounds and Sub would be attempting to connect to the 5Ghz signal generated by your sound bar (in your case, the PLAYBAR). 

Honestly, this would go much easier for you if you were to drive your surround speakers with a Sonos Amp, rather than a Sonos CONNECT:AMP, which wasn’t even designed for use as a surround device. 

I think there is always an advantage to being on the latest version of the OS, whenever you can be. You’d get better support that way, at the very least. I moved to S2 when it originally came out, and there was no impact to my system at all, including the two PLAYBARs I had at the time. 

Yay… finally found a way to get the Home Internet box close enough to my ethernet wiring to connect both the Playbar as well as the Connect:AMP and also have a great signal from the cell tower. So now I am getting sound from the ceiling speakers. At least the music operation sounds much much better. I can’t say, however, that I’m fully satisfied with the surround sound experience. I don’t really hear the rear left/right separation I was expecting. But then again it may have been the DVD movie I was using, Pirates of the Caribbean, for my test. I’ve seen other movies on postings that said they provided a better channel separation test.

As far as the suggestion to use the Sonos AMP, I may go that route. It’s just deciding if the investment is worth the quality of surround Sonos provides. Are you using the Sonos AMP in your system and in your opinion does it provide the enhanced sound for home theater that you were expecting?

I will update my system to the S2 version as your suggested.

Lastly, I want to thank all those in the community that provided instruction. So very helpful to my better understanding of the Sonos ecosystem and getting my system to work. This community is the tops in my opinion. Thanks.

No, I use pairs of PLAY:1s in my home theater setups as surrounds. But the separation would sound the same, no matter what device is used, it’s the speaker placement, and most importantly, the source material. My ‘go to’ movie for this is the opening beach attack in Saving Private Ryan, which effectively exercises those aural treats.

Eventually, I want to replace the PLAY:1s with Era 300s, but there isn’t enough Atmos in my life, and no where to use the PLAY:1s right now.