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Contributor I
July 25, 2022

S2 Update 14.12 Sub Issues

Hello,

With the recent 14.12 S2 Update there is a bug in the sub settings when using Trueplay, and I've pinpointed the problem.  I wanted to pass along this information to the company to ensure that the specifics of the issue are known.

It’s likely that most people may not notice this, or bother asking Sonos about it, but this is a real difference between 14.12 and the previous versions.

  • My current setup has an Arc, Sub(Gen1), and 2 Play1's.  
    • Using a white noise generator to review these differences.  
    • I'm controlling the sub settings on my iPad Pro while recording on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.  
    • I've run Trueplay twice since the update, and get the same results both times.  
      • Both Trueplay runs were with my iPhone as my iPad Pro does not have support yet.
  • Once updated to 14.12, you are prompted to re-run Trueplay.  But Trueplay has a bug in this new update.
  • I tested the frequencies with Trueplay On and then Off without changing the volume on the App.  
    • The only setting modified is the "Sub Audio" setting that ranges from -15 to +15
  • These differences are absolutely unique to the 14.12 update
    • I did not take pics, but have done similar tests before and the sub settings always increase/decrease all of the frequencies below the crossover
    • In previous versions, 40hz was always the highest db of any frequency when bossting the sub volume.

Trueplay On with Bass and Treble set to 0:  

  • Sub = 0: 
    • There is about a 4-5db reduction in the 30-60hz range and a boost in the 60-80hz range compared to Trueplay off
    •  

  • Sub = +15: 
    • Here is where you see the issue.  Sub 50hz doesn't change much at all even boosting the sub setting to the max  
    • There is a huge boost in the 60-80hz range where it is now the dominate frequency range of the sub
    •  

Trueplay Off with Bass, and Treble set to 0:  

  • Sub = 0
    • You can already see a difference in that the <50hz frequencies are higher and it's a pretty flat wave.

    •  
  • Sub = +15
    • Notice that now the dominate frequency range is the 35-50hz.  
    • The 60-80hz is still boosted, but it does not ever overtake the lower frequencies
    •  

  • Lastly, here is a grouped view showing these pictures side by side so you can really see the difference.
    • It also includes going -15 on the sub
    •  

  • Could it be a High Pass Filter setting that is getting triggered when you run TruePlay?
  • If you do not like the way your system sounds after 14.12, turn off Trueplay.
    • It will not be as good as what you are used to as Trueplay will adjust more to your room and leave less peaks/valleys throughout the spectrum.
    • But it will still be more like what you are used to hearing.

I can provide more information if needed, but hopefully this helps pinpoint the issue for everyone.  

 

Thank you for your time,

Robert

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84 replies

ropfeilAuthor
Contributor I
July 30, 2022

Reposting from the FB group as there are a lot of new posts coming in with similar comments/questions so wanted to have a refresher.

1)    Peter Pee did a really good video on the changes to the Arc.  But this video is only about the Arc changes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQRuyi8kLA&t=2s

2)    The changes to the Arc are purposeful and are documented in the Update notes.  It still seems that people either love it or hate it.  After listening to it even more, I actually like what they've done with the Arc especially after Trueplay.  

3)    The changes to the sub are not documented and thus it does not look like it was planned.  Support was not aware of any changes to the sub either.

4)    The change with the sub is going to exist for everyone as it's a software change where Trueplay is not adjusting the <50hz frequencies much at all.

5)    The difference between Trueplay On and Off is interesting when the sub is turned up all the way.  Trueplay On = 60hz is 20db MORE than 40hz. Trueplay Off = 60hz is 4-6db LESS than 40hz

6)    So between Trueplay On vs Off, it's a difference of at least 24db between 40hz and 60hz when the sub volume is turned up all the way.  This is the key that shows trueplay adjustment is not changing the 40hz frequency much at all.

7)    If you play music that doesn't have <50hz frequencies, it's very likely that this change makes the music sound better.  I've had issues with the crossover specifically because we lose these 70-90hz frequencies in the overlapping point.

8)    If you haven't noticed the change, don't go looking for it.  Enjoy that you haven't noticed it and keep on rocking.

9)    While I don't like the changes to the sub, I still play music and movies and enjoy them.  It doesn't make me regret buying Sonos.  Mistakes and defects happen in software, and no software is perfect.

10)    I chatted with Sonos Support Tuesday night and they said they'll have their specialists look into the data I gathered, but I haven't heard anything from them yet.  I'm heading on vacation, but will keep an eye out and update if I hear more.

Lyricist I
July 30, 2022

I purchased Sonos (Arc and sub gen 3) because of impressive low bass I love. Now after update I am sure I could bought anything else than Sonos. I heard two versions of Dolby Atmos demo on Peter YouTube channel and I know previous FW version was better for me. This update did hurt my Sonos experience and I will be sad but it will go away if they will not fix it. Is any Sonos team member read it?

Lyricist I
July 30, 2022

My system also now sounds poor after update and  redoing truplay several times.  I contacted support but they seem to be unaware of the 14.12 problem. They just recommended reboot, change router channel, etc.  
Is there anywhere else we can provide feedback towards getting a fix deployed for this?

Majo133
Renowned Enthusiast I
August 1, 2022

I can also confirm SUB sounds anemic after 14.12 update and also the overall volume of the whole system has been somehow deafened, meaning the volume slider has to be set to a higher volume.

So yeah, it seems QA at SONOS did not do their job.

Yesterday, is not today.
Majo133
Renowned Enthusiast I
August 1, 2022

@ropfeil great, thanks for the summ. So let us know if SONOS reached to u regarding the SUB issues.

Yesterday, is not today.
Enthusiast I
August 1, 2022

I just got an email reply from Sonos after contacting them, hope this helps……

Hello Ian,

Thank you for contacting Sonos Customer Experience. My name is Shising, and I am happy to assist you regarding your issue. I am sorry you have had to deal with this issue. I know how frustrating it is when the system does not work as it should, and I will do my best to help you.

After the release of R3 2022, an issue was discovered that impacts audio quality negatively with Trueplay enabled on certain Home Theater Configurations.

The issue will result in slightly less output from the Sub. The issue for Arc will also affect certain other frequencies and currently, it can only be fully mitigated by Turning off Trueplay tuning | Sonos.

Please note that R3 also introduced additional changes to the Arc's audio output. These changes are expected and can result in a slightly lower perceived volume output but can simply be changed by raising the volume slightly in the Sonos app. The user doesn't lose out on overall volume, as it's just the volume scale that has been adjusted slightly. These changes are intended and are working as designed.

We are aware of the issue that Trueplay affects the sound quality negatively and are working on a fix but do not have any more information or a timeline to share.

Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you, and we thank you for your understanding on this matter. If you have other concerns, feel free to let us know.

All the best,

Dogdad
Headliner III
August 1, 2022

Sonos has put out a general statement to the public on this issue explaining it all. 

Enthusiast I
August 1, 2022

I just saw that in the announcements section thanks

Lyricist III
August 2, 2022

I have the same issue since the 14.12 update, I have (2) Gen3 subs, a Sonos ARC and (2) Sonos ones SL.  Once I disabled the trueplay the bass was back to how it originally was.  I did not realize how bad it was until I was watching Godzilla vs Kong and then disabled the trueplay.  It’s night and day difference, I hope Sonos fixes this soon.  At this price point they should have better test and QA.  

Dogdad
Headliner III
August 2, 2022

I have the same issue since the 14.12 update, I have (2) Gen3 subs, a Sonos ARC and (2) Sonos ones SL.  Once I disabled the trueplay the bass was back to how it originally was.  I did not realize how bad it was until I was watching Godzilla vs Kong and then disabled the trueplay.  It’s night and day difference, I hope Sonos fixes this soon.  At this price point they should have better test and QA.  

Sonos put out a post on the issues today…might maybe read it.