Avid Contributor I

Answered

I'm looking for expert help with the "reflections" on the side walls of my Sonos system (I also have a glass door).

32 replies
510 views

Hello everyone and welcome back! Greetings from Rome, Italy :-)

I have a question for the experts, because surfing the internet I've always found conflicting answers.

On the right wall, I have a door with a glass panel in the center, so I'd like to eliminate the problem...

As you all know, our Sonos systems "reflect" the side channels of audio and the Atmos effects onto the walls.

For this reason, I've always thought that curtains weren't a good idea, because they would absorb these reflections, ruining the audio experience.

But obviously, a surface like glass isn't a good one either...

On the internet, I've found confirmation that glass isn't good, and they recommend "closing the curtains." But that seems contradictory to me! Or am I wrong? Absorbent curtains shouldn't be good for Sonos audio, since they could then affect the side reflections...

Can any experts clarify this for me?

And then, more importantly, how do I solve the door glass problem? I'm renting a house, so I can't make any major changes...

Thank you all so much!

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

G

GahamAnswer

Headliner I

@Ignazio it is worth keeping in mind that there are a couple of reasons that Sonos don’t publish too much detail on what an ideal environment is.

The first is that it would kill sales as no one would have the right room 🤣

The second, and more important, is that as a consumer product it is designed to sound as good as possible in as many situations as possible. Trueplay will probably improve things a little because it seems to have access to more tweaking options than the UI of the App exposes. But generally, Sonos speakers sound good out of the box wherever you put them as long as you follow the basic rules.

The Arc has some clever things going on under the covers and sound is a weird phenomenon. I often try to focus on the bass in rooms where I have a Sub to convince myself the bass is coming from the Sub and not somewhere else and even the old Play:1s I use for surrounds in our TV Room fool me into thinking someone or something is outside the window behind me.

Take a couple of days, listen to what you are hearing, see what is missing (or not) and post back here with the results. I’m sure that, like me, @Stanley_4 would be happy to help once some more detail is there to work with.

Show previous replies

AjTrek1

Glass is a reflective surface. The difference in sound for high and mid frequencies vs a wall is minimal at best. Low frequencies can cause loose glass to vibrate if you are heavy in low end. Overall the averages person isn’t going to be that sensitive to sound vs a wall.

Regarding Dolby Atmos side reflections ( which I assume involves an Arc series) the critical question regardless of Glass or a wall is the distance from the sides of the Arc. If the reflective surface is over 8 ft away there will be diminishing returns regardless. I wouldn’t over think the concept of reflective surfaces unless you can definitely determine a degradation between one surface vs the other.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.

I

IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Glass is a reflective surface. The difference in sound for high and mid frequencies vs a wall is minimal at best. Low frequencies can cause loose glass to vibrate if you are heavy in low end. Overall the averages person isn’t going to be that sensitive to sound vs a wall.

Regarding Dolby Atmos side reflections ( which I assume involves an Arc series) the critical question regardless of Glass or a wall is the distance from the sides of the Arc. If the reflective surface is over 8 ft away there will be diminishing returns regardless. I wouldn’t over think the concept of reflective surfaces unless you can definitely determine a degradation between one surface vs the other.

Thank you so much, too! Really kind!
The distance between the ARC and the walls is about 168cm on both sides.
Regarding the glass issue: OK, even if it doesn't cause bass issues, where it would cause the glass to reverberate (I'll try that when I finish the work), my question is what to use to cover the glass, because I also have the problem of light coming from the hallway into the room where I have the home theater.
So even if the glass might not cause audio issues (I'll let you know later), the problem remains of covering the light, and therefore what to use to cover the glass. Perhaps a curtain, plywood, MDF, or something else?

G

Gaham

Headliner I

If it's light and not sound that is the primary issue then it is more a question of how much light do you want to exclude. I think dampening of sound is secondary.

Curtains will solve the light problem and dampening can be controlled by the weight of the material and distance from the glass.

For listening tests you could use a sheet over the door to assess the with and without curtains effect and make a more informed decision.

I have a large patio door with curtains in a room and honestly the difference between curtains open and closed is marginal.

Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

Covering the glass will as I've said help manage its problematic accoustical properties.

The link I provided has several good introductory level articles that will give you much more correct information than you are currently working from. I've been reading several of them for entertainment, been too long since I paid much attention to glass.

A curtain is almost surely going to be your best solution, how thick and what material would be the question, with the constraint of blocking/passing your desired amount of light. As suggested dig out the spare bedding and experiment.

You didn't give much room information, which specific Sonos speaker and which driver(s) in it is causing the reflection concerns? How large is the glass area as a percentage of your walls and in square feet/meters? Where is it placed in relation to the problematic driver?

Also do not get wrapped around the reflection issue, many foolish folks are pushing that for reasons I can't understand. That is only one component of room accoustics and a bit far down the list in importance once any major audible issues are resolved.

I

IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

If it's light and not sound that is the primary issue then it is more a question of how much light do you want to exclude. I think dampening of sound is secondary.

Curtains will solve the light problem and dampening can be controlled by the weight of the material and distance from the glass.

For listening tests you could use a sheet over the door to assess the with and without curtains effect and make a more informed decision.

I have a large patio door with curtains in a room and honestly the difference between curtains open and closed is marginal.

Oh, okay, so could I put a light blackout curtain over the door? They advised me to leave it outside because, with the Sonos system reflecting sound there, it might not work well because the curtain would absorb it... Otherwise, I would have solved the problem a few days ago...

I

IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Covering the glass will as I've said help manage its problematic accoustical properties.

The link I provided has several good introductory level articles that will give you much more correct information than you are currently working from. I've been reading several of them for entertainment, been too long since I paid much attention to glass.

A curtain is almost surely going to be your best solution, how thick and what material would be the question, with the constraint of blocking/passing your desired amount of light. As suggested dig out the spare bedding and experiment.

You didn't give much room information, which specific Sonos speaker and which driver(s) in it is causing the reflection concerns? How large is the glass area as a percentage of your walls and in square feet/meters? Where is it placed in relation to the problematic driver?

Also do not get wrapped around the reflection issue, many foolish folks are pushing that for reasons I can't understand. That is only one component of room accoustics and a bit far down the list in importance once any major audible issues are resolved.

Thank you. Okay, I'll try a lightweight curtain and let you know.
Can you recommend the right curtain material so it's not too "invasive"? Thanks.

G

Gaham

Headliner I

Honestly I would want the curtains to look good and that is a personal choice.

As @Stanley_4 says don’t get caught up on what people say about reflections because audiophiles are like wine experts they all have lots of opinions but most of it is not audible.

My best guess, and please read this carefully, is that when you have a curtain in place the sound will be “warmer” not because of the reflections but because the curtains will make the room “cosier” and that will have a psychological effect on how you hear things.

Much of what we listen to relies on illusion and our ears and brain work with the other senses to impact how and what we think we hear.

I used to obsess about the perfect listening position, now I just enjoy listening and the fun of hearing things a bit differently because of where I chose to sit or the room that I am in.

Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

Gaham, our posts keep crossing but I think we are saying pretty much the same thing.

Our patio door is large, and a cheap poorly constructed thing, so it is far more prone to audio issues than a quality door. Thin, double pane, both panes the same thickness and set in an iffy aluminum frame that provides little support or vibration dampening.

Our room layout is a large L shape with a notch in the inside of the center corner for the TV and audio gear. The right edge of the notch is centered on, and facing the door. My Sub sits in the notch where it sounds quite good and provides even response BUT it is in the worst possible alignment to the door and even mid-level playback causes audible resonance. Crank it up to party levels and you can hear the glass vibrations at its resonant point over the music if you are close to it. Really loud, like my pre-Sonos Infinity woofer calibration tool uses, and I worried it would break.

The foam-backed thermal curtain makes a very noticeable difference at anything above background listening levels, anything that excites the resonance.

I

IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Honestly I would want the curtains to look good and that is a personal choice.

As @Stanley_4 says don’t get caught up on what people say about reflections because audiophiles are like wine experts they all have lots of opinions but most of it is not audible.

My best guess, and please read this carefully, is that when you have a curtain in place the sound will be “warmer” not because of the reflections but because the curtains will make the room “cosier” and that will have a psychological effect on how you hear things.

Much of what we listen to relies on illusion and our ears and brain work with the other senses to impact how and what we think we hear.

I used to obsess about the perfect listening position, now I just enjoy listening and the fun of hearing things a bit differently because of where I chose to sit or the room that I am in.

Sure, sure, I understand...
But look, I was thinking mainly about the technical aspect of how Sonos reflects sound off the walls: I thought that, since the way it works with external channels is precisely to use the "bounce" from the walls (I'm referring especially to the ARC's side channels), I had doubts about the curtains because I thought: "If it has to bounce off the walls, but I put up a curtain that absorbs it anyway... then somehow I'll neutralize the Sonos system..."

Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

No way anyone can recommend an optimal curtain for you, you need to test your exact situation and them pick a curtain that matched the best sounding test material.

Mine are similar to this. Experiment and see what YOU need.

https://www.amazon.com/Skyscape-Darkening-Curtains-Filtering-Foam-Backed/dp/B0FMXRD2N4/ref=sr_1_53

You can pick from several light blocking levels, that would likely impact sound absorbtion too.

Show more replies

Sign up

Login to the community