Avid Contributor I

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I'm looking for expert help with the "reflections" on the side walls of my Sonos system (I also have a glass door).

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Hello everyone and welcome back! Greetings from Rome, Italy :-)

I have a question for the experts, because surfing the internet I've always found conflicting answers.

On the right wall, I have a door with a glass panel in the center, so I'd like to eliminate the problem...

As you all know, our Sonos systems "reflect" the side channels of audio and the Atmos effects onto the walls.

For this reason, I've always thought that curtains weren't a good idea, because they would absorb these reflections, ruining the audio experience.

But obviously, a surface like glass isn't a good one either...

On the internet, I've found confirmation that glass isn't good, and they recommend "closing the curtains." But that seems contradictory to me! Or am I wrong? Absorbent curtains shouldn't be good for Sonos audio, since they could then affect the side reflections...

Can any experts clarify this for me?

And then, more importantly, how do I solve the door glass problem? I'm renting a house, so I can't make any major changes...

Thank you all so much!

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GahamAnswer

Headliner I

@Ignazio it is worth keeping in mind that there are a couple of reasons that Sonos don’t publish too much detail on what an ideal environment is.

The first is that it would kill sales as no one would have the right room 🤣

The second, and more important, is that as a consumer product it is designed to sound as good as possible in as many situations as possible. Trueplay will probably improve things a little because it seems to have access to more tweaking options than the UI of the App exposes. But generally, Sonos speakers sound good out of the box wherever you put them as long as you follow the basic rules.

The Arc has some clever things going on under the covers and sound is a weird phenomenon. I often try to focus on the bass in rooms where I have a Sub to convince myself the bass is coming from the Sub and not somewhere else and even the old Play:1s I use for surrounds in our TV Room fool me into thinking someone or something is outside the window behind me.

Take a couple of days, listen to what you are hearing, see what is missing (or not) and post back here with the results. I’m sure that, like me, @Stanley_4 would be happy to help once some more detail is there to work with.

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Gaham

Headliner I

Also worth looking at the link below which probably has more depth than you need but will provide some pointers.

https://www.soundproofyourstudio.com/blog/acoustics-of-a-dolby-atmos-studio-creating-the-perfect-sound-environment

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IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

The question of all questions, to which I can never find an answer, is this: what's the best material to "reflect" the sound of the Sonos side channels?
- Curtains? (I don't think so, because I know they act as sound-absorbing materials.)
- Glass? (Again, I'm almost certain that glass isn't a good "reflector.")
- Wood? Plywood? MDF?

So, how can I "treat" the glass door to optimally reflect the Sonos side channels?

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Gaham

Headliner I

Glass is a reflector of sound because it is hard. Try reading some articles on building materials used in studios and their impact on sound reflection and apply the reverse logic (studios tend to try and minimise reflections).

https://acousticsfirst.info/2022/03/28/when-it-comes-to-glass-dont-glaze-over-acoustics/

Mr. T

Don’t overthink it. Can you even tell the difference in sound if the door is open or shut?

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IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Grazie ragazzi per la vostra gentile risposta.
Rispondendo al Sig. T.: Non l'ho ancora provato (sto ristrutturando dopo alcuni piccoli lavori), ma dovrò sicuramente chiudere la porta perché ha una sezione in vetro, quindi la luce sarebbe visibile dal corridoio. Per questo motivo, sto cercando di capire che tipo di materiale usare per la porta chiusa, che ha una sezione in vetro piuttosto grande al centro.
Ad oggi, non sono riuscito a trovare la risposta. Sembra che qualcosa stia disturbando il sistema di riflessione del suono Sonos, che deve "riflettere" correttamente senza smorzamenti, assorbimenti e simili. È surreale.

I'm replying to Gaham: from what you write ("glass reflects sound because it's hard"), then I should leave the free glass as it is... If I understand correctly... This is exactly what we Sonos users need: for the side channels to be able to reflect the audio laterally and then return it to the listener in the best possible way...

Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

The question in a home environment isn't reflect or don't reflect, trying to eliminate all reflections, as in a studio is usually going to be large, ugly and expensive, aside from not being what you want.

In a home usually nothing needs done past the basics for getting the room to a midpoint between too live and too dead. You could add sound absorption to specific problems:

The glass door is a good example, I have an 8 foot one here and aside from contributing to the too live issue it is prone to vibrations at high playback volume. Managing the reflections and vibrations has made a nice improvement to the room's sound that most folks can hear when it is demonstrated. A medium-weight foam-backed thermal curtain turned out to be very close to perfect. Experiments with materials ranging from bedsheets to thick blankets helped find the sweet spot.

Sound absorbing panels can work for other flat surfaces, getting something both attractive and functional is usually less than fun and getting the right one can be a challenge. Both size and absorption levels / frequencies are critical issues.

Unless you are actually hearing something bad, not just being told you have an issue, you likely don't have an issue.

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IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Thank you so much for your time, Stanley. I often follow your replies when I read something on the forum :-)

But look, the main problem I want to solve (and I still haven't figured out how) is this: I absolutely have to close the door on the right wall, and that door has a large glass panel.
Glass is known to be a poor reflector for audio, and considering Sonos uses a sound reflection system, I need to find a solution to cover the glass (sound-absorbing panels wouldn't work because they would absorb the audio, whereas Sonos needs to reflect it, bounce it back, and return it to the listener).

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Gaham

Headliner I

@Ignazio I would suggest taking the advice of @Stanley_4 and try some listening tests at different volume levels, in different positions, with the glass door open and closed and see what differences you can hear. Listening with your eyes closed is highly recommended.

If you hear a problem that you can articulate then there may be a fix but at the moment it all seems a bit hypothetical.

The irony of mixing music is that most of it is done in a “perfect” environment so that music can be heard in an imperfect one.

I think that you may be suffering from an eyes and assumptions first ears second issue and that is definitely the wrong order. To quote Joe Meek “if it sounds right, it is right”, with my own addition of, even if that is not how the mixing engineer intended it.

Stanley_4

Grand Maestro

Glass audio properties:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=glass+audio+reflectivity&ia=web

I can't agree with "Glass is known to be a poor reflector for audio" that is a major oversimplification of the issue.

If you want to reflect more sound and more balanced across the audio frequencies a simple sheet of wallboard/Gypsum board, or a wood product on rollers so it can be easily moved will do that. Likely solving a problem you do not have.

Back to my basic question: What audio problem are you hearing?

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IgnazioAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Thanks! I'm not having any audio issues right now, as I'm working on it. However, I've realized I'll have to close the door, and the problem is I'll definitely need to cover the glass. But as you say, it might not necessarily cause audio issues, but I definitely have a light problem from outside, which is also why I need to cover the glass.
I was wondering what the best solution would be to reflect the audio well: curtains, wood, plywood, MDF, etc.
Thanks again, so much.

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