Answered

HDMI Arc Playback

Y

i currently own 1 Sonos AMP that will power my Sonance MAG 6.1 outdoor setup for the pool area & will buy another AMP to power (2) Klipsch AW-650’s that will be for the Patio area. I will also buy the Sonos Port to control my Onkyo 686 amp that is powering my home theater setup.

I do plan on bringing a spare 43in Samsung TV out in the patio/pool area that i will want the audio from the TV to be playing from the Sonos Amps.

The question I have is, IF i run an HDMI from the TV (via ARC) to lets say… the AMP that powers the patio speakers… can i have the audio from the TV going through the other Sonos components ?

If so, will there be audio delay/lip sync issues ?

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Best answer by Airgetlam 25 March 2022, 16:43

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12 replies

Airgetlam

Yes, and yes. There would not be any appreciable delay on the speakers connected to the Amp, which you’re feeding the ARC signal to, but as soon as you extend that data to other Sonos ‘rooms’, the signal will need to be buffered, and the other ‘rooms’ would be at least 75ms behind the Amp’s ‘room’.

Bruce
Y

Unless i grouped both Sonos AMPS ? Will grouping both AMPS remove that 75ms delay?

Airgetlam

No, the only room that would be on the “small” delay is the device/room that the ARC is connected to. Any other Sonos “room”, no matter what type, will have the delay, that’s the way that Sonos keeps all connected rooms in sync. 

You could set up the second Amp as a surround speaker driver, but then it would be pushing the surround data, and not the normal “front” signals to it. No delay, but not the center voice channel, either.

Sonos has no solution for sending an ARC signal outside of the initial room without any delay. 

Bruce
Y

And sending the audio from the TV using the RCA inputs of the AMP would also have some kind of delay? how much exactly?

Airgetlam

Analog inputs, on any Sonos device, are subject to that same 75ms minimum delay. 

Bruce
Y

Got it.

Sounds like i should just use 1 AMP and call it a day.

I’ve tried doing a lot of research on here to learn more about these products and the software. Unless i misread, i thought once you plug an audio source into the Port or Amp you should be able to share that audio with all Sonos products without a delay.

Airgetlam

I think we’re missing our connection….

There’s a difference between the ARC (HDMI) connection, and the analog (RCA and 3.5mm) inputs.

The ARC input has very little delay, for the “room” that it is part of. So the Sonos Amp, the Sonos Beam, and the Sonos Arc will have little to no delay when using that input. 

The analog inputs will always have that 75ms minimum delay, so that the content can be played in sync across all Sonos rooms. In the case we’re discussing, the Sonos Amp and all connected rooms will play in sync, because the buffering occurs on the line in.

To break that down a little further, if you try to connect your TV to the analog inputs, there will be the delay as Sonos buffers that line in for playback on all connected rooms. So, everything will be in sync from a sound perspective, but not from a visual/lipsync perspective.

The ARC input is a different beast, and doesn’t go through that “buffer to allow sync across all rooms” that the analog inputs do, so it can be visually sync’d with the TV set. However, soon as you send that signal from that one device to any “grouped” rooms/speakers, it must be buffered for all the grouped rooms to play in sync, which results in the delay between the Amp with the ARC input, and all other rooms. 

I’m trying to be as clear as possible here….but if I’m not, please let me know...it’s more likely to be on my side than on yours :)

Bruce
Airgetlam

One additional comment...Sonos has the concept of “grouped” rooms, and “Bonded” speakers. Two very different things, which is why the terminology is important.

Bonded speakers (generally the Sub and surrounds) will always play in sync with the device they’re bonded with. 

Grouped speakers are disparate zones/rooms, which will normally play in sync with all sources except that ARC line in. 

Bruce
Y

You have been beyond helpful, and i am very appreciative of this.

i have been going down rabbit holes trying to figure out the best way to get sound in the patio/pool area of my house and lack of product knowledge has been my biggest issue with this.

i went down the Sonos route because of the great reviews of the software portion (after using it with my 1st amp i have also realized this) & the ease of use it brings. i didnt want to spend the big bucks on a Control4 setup and have to rewire/redo everything in the house, its not a good time for that.

With that being said, so you can at least get an idea of where my brain was taking me to building this “outdoor/TV” setup here is the layout…

The Sonos Port & Amps will be located in the Great Room where the main Home Theater setup is. I have an Onkyo Amp that i will hook up the Port to for it to control & provide audio to.

Sonos Amp A will power the Sonance MAG 6.1 that will provide sound for the Pool/Outdoor Kitchen area & Sonos Amp B will power the 2 Klipsch AW-650’s for the Patio area.

Yellow marking indicate of where the TV may be placed. I bought a 75FT HDMI cable and have it currently being tested on a TV inside the house & 1 Sonos AMP and it appears to be working without any issues so far. I will continue to test this as i do not want to install anything until i know there will be minimal issues with this functioning.

My attempt is to provide audio everywhere without a delay. Well that appears to be only a dream as that is not what i can do with an HDMI ARC from the TV & Sonos Amp.

I have already X’d out the idea of using HDMI wireless devices as that just adds more cost & more delay through transmission.

Now that you have a full picture of what i am trying to accomplish, please share any ideas.

Thanks,

melvimbe

A couple suggestions.  While everything Bruce said is accurate regarding the delay, you can increase the audio delay for the amp connected to the TV so that it matches the delay you hear on the other grouped amp.  You normally don’t do this, because you want the audio near the TV to be in sync with the video on the TV.  However, I find this to be not quite as important in an outdoor environment when the speakers are not placed to the left/right of the TV anyway.  Something that might be worth playing with.

The other thing is setup your Great room TV and outside TV so that they can play in sync for video when you want to . This can be done with an HDMI matrix, say something with 4 HDMI inputs and 2 (or more outputs).  So for example you can have an Apple TV connected as input to the matrix, which then splits the signal to both TVs.  When you want TV sound everywhere, you probably want TV video everywhere too.  And this partially solves your audio problem as the indoor TV will get audio immediate (Onkyo) and your outdoor will get audio immediately (Sonos Amp).  The only grouped speaker is that second amp….and you could maybe get a 2nd TV outside for that.  You will need lots of HDMI cables for this, but it’s doable.

For reference, I have a TV in the living room, a TV in the kitchen (open concept to  living room), and two TVs outside.  Living room TV has Arc, kitchen has no audio(not needed), and each TV outside are connected to Sonos Amps.  When I want to play TV audio everywhere, I have each TV connected to the same video source, and each TV feeds Sonos individually.  It is not perfect sync, but plenty close enough for my purposes.

 

 

 

Danny
buzz

I’m not aware of an HDMI matrix switch that handles ARC or eARC in a useful manor. The ARC or eARC concept is that a dedicated client device will handle the audio, not that the audio will be distributed to multiple devices. Along with audio and video the ARC or eARC shares CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) information. This allows the user to simply drop a disc into a player, select a TV App or turn ON the cable box and all of the system components switch ON and to the proper input. This is intended to be plug’n play for the consumer. It’s not quite plug’n play when attempting to push CEC through an HDMI matrix.

Another complication is that ARC or eARC audio uses a different set of pins from regular HDMI audio. The HDMI matrix would need to be aware of which audio you want to use. All of this could be handled with a separate control processor, but this is not quite plug’n play.

melvimbe

I’m not aware of an HDMI matrix switch that handles ARC or eARC in a useful manor. The ARC or eARC concept is that a dedicated client device will handle the audio, not that the audio will be distributed to multiple devices. Along with audio and video the ARC or eARC shares CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) information. This allows the user to simply drop a disc into a player, select a TV App or turn ON the cable box and all of the system components switch ON and to the proper input. This is intended to be plug’n play for the consumer. It’s not quite plug’n play when attempting to push CEC through an HDMI matrix.

Another complication is that ARC or eARC audio uses a different set of pins from regular HDMI audio. The HDMI matrix would need to be aware of which audio you want to use. All of this could be handled with a separate control processor, but this is not quite plug’n play.

 

I wasn’t suggesting that a matrix would handle ARC/eARC or CEC.  Perhaps I didn’t say it clearly, but my setup has the matrix between source(s) and TVs, not between TVs and audio equipment.  The ARC/eARC connection between TV and Sonos Arc/Sonos Amp are still in place like normal.

 

 

Danny
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