Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
24998 views

First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

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Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

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Craigster

Trending Lyricist I

I think the bigger overall issue is that the behavior has changed since many of us early adopters had purchased the system… and the changes are what “Sonos thinks this is best”.

Nowhere in the advertisements or literature states Sonos will change what you paid for without your permission, despite how it affect the usage of your purchased product. The updates are being pushed out, your system changed forever, and you find out after the fact.

To me, it would be no different if I bought a performance sports car and one day I drove it and it no longer performed the same due to an update the manufacturer thought was “better”. If things worked for me, it should stay that way.

Just like optional computer updates, there should be at a minimum a description of an “optional” update to change behavior if you want that change. Bug fixes are one thing and should be mandatory, but operational changes and functionality updates should be optional, with FULL TRANSPARENCY of the changes in advance of an automatic update… or at least the option to fall back to the state where it functions best to where it worked best for you previously. There shouldn’t be a penalty say for someone who has a Great Room or Vaulted Ceiling configuration in their home, because some engineer tested in a 12x12x8 boxy living area and based the code change as to how it sounds “better” there.

My 300s used to sound much better with just the Arc and before the latest updates.

I did a blind test for family members in my great room between my $3,000 Sonos Utlra (before I returned it), Sub 3 and Era 300s system vs a $200 Vizio Soundbar, Sub and Surrounds with Top Gun Maverick, Jurrasic Park and John Wick setting the volumes Dolby Test tones and a DB meter for accuracy of sound volume and surround levels... and asked them which had the better sound experience….

4 of 6 adults all picked the Vizio surround saying it felt like they were wearing headphones. When I switched back to my Arc and swapped the Era 300s with my Era 100s for surround …. all 6 picked the Sonos.

Its just my humble and personal opinion, but at the price point especially, functionality updates should be optional and fall back possible to what I paid for and how it worked at that time, not forced on me after I can no longer return the product.

D

da3wilson

Lyricist III

If it is intentional I am expecting a detailed, in-depth technical explanation on the Sonos blog to explain the reasons why. I'm not convinced at all how this could be more accurately immersive than what was happening before but I'm open to reason.

It's great that people think their set up sounds amazing as is, my Era 300 surrounds sound good as well. However, the point is they could sound even better, if this change was reversed.

This 100% for me also. If it sounds better in the test rooms/setups they have then give us a chance to see what is best for our specific setup. Instead they just force the updates/possible bugs onto us and hope we are happy with the results.

However after more thorough testing I have been able to get the 300s to play out of the inner sides with this test file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ENZuPSOCRP-RfN6yrWzcAQZnPmY31MG/view?t=5 found through this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround_sound_test_files_in_almost_every_format/. If you download more of the atmos test files maybe you will find others that allow the 300s to play out of the inner woofers also. I did have to download the files to a pc and connect them to my soundbar through e-arc to get them to play correctly. @dominiklei @Snoomuffin and others if you have a chance to test some of these files and please post your results. For me this is still a step backwards as this means that usual sources will not provide any sound out of the inner woofer of the 300.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

If it is intentional I am expecting a detailed, in-depth technical explanation on the Sonos blog to explain the reasons why. I'm not convinced at all how this could be more accurately immersive than what was happening before but I'm open to reason.

It's great that people think their set up sounds amazing as is, my Era 300 surrounds sound good as well. However, the point is they could sound even better, if this change was reversed.

This 100% for me also. If it sounds better in the test rooms/setups they have then give us a chance to see what is best for our specific setup. Instead they just force the updates/possible bugs onto us and hope we are happy with the results.

However after more thorough testing I have been able to get the 300s to play out of the inner sides with this test file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ENZuPSOCRP-RfN6yrWzcAQZnPmY31MG/view?t=5 found through this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround_sound_test_files_in_almost_every_format/. If you download more of the atmos test files maybe you will find others that allow the 300s to play out of the inner woofers also. I did have to download the files to a pc and connect them to my soundbar through e-arc to get them to play correctly. @dominiklei @Snoomuffin and others if you have a chance to test some of these files and please post your results. For me this is still a step backwards as this means that usual sources will not provide any sound out of the inner woofer of the 300.

I haven’t tested yet, but how would these test channels be any different than the dolby atmos disc I have that offers the same configurations for testing?

D

da3wilson

Lyricist III

If it is intentional I am expecting a detailed, in-depth technical explanation on the Sonos blog to explain the reasons why. I'm not convinced at all how this could be more accurately immersive than what was happening before but I'm open to reason.

It's great that people think their set up sounds amazing as is, my Era 300 surrounds sound good as well. However, the point is they could sound even better, if this change was reversed.

This 100% for me also. If it sounds better in the test rooms/setups they have then give us a chance to see what is best for our specific setup. Instead they just force the updates/possible bugs onto us and hope we are happy with the results.

However after more thorough testing I have been able to get the 300s to play out of the inner sides with this test file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ENZuPSOCRP-RfN6yrWzcAQZnPmY31MG/view?t=5 found through this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround_sound_test_files_in_almost_every_format/. If you download more of the atmos test files maybe you will find others that allow the 300s to play out of the inner woofers also. I did have to download the files to a pc and connect them to my soundbar through e-arc to get them to play correctly. @dominiklei @Snoomuffin and others if you have a chance to test some of these files and please post your results. For me this is still a step backwards as this means that usual sources will not provide any sound out of the inner woofer of the 300.

I haven’t tested yet, but how would these test channels be any different than the dolby atmos disc I have that offers the same configurations for testing?

Not sure. Someone that is a lot smarter at this would have to clarify why certain files would be different. It seems to have some different locations from 7.1 and other test files that I have tried and that could be the reason. This is a definite change from the previous behavior though.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

If it is intentional I am expecting a detailed, in-depth technical explanation on the Sonos blog to explain the reasons why. I'm not convinced at all how this could be more accurately immersive than what was happening before but I'm open to reason.

It's great that people think their set up sounds amazing as is, my Era 300 surrounds sound good as well. However, the point is they could sound even better, if this change was reversed.

This 100% for me also. If it sounds better in the test rooms/setups they have then give us a chance to see what is best for our specific setup. Instead they just force the updates/possible bugs onto us and hope we are happy with the results.

However after more thorough testing I have been able to get the 300s to play out of the inner sides with this test file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ENZuPSOCRP-RfN6yrWzcAQZnPmY31MG/view?t=5 found through this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround_sound_test_files_in_almost_every_format/. If you download more of the atmos test files maybe you will find others that allow the 300s to play out of the inner woofers also. I did have to download the files to a pc and connect them to my soundbar through e-arc to get them to play correctly. @dominiklei @Snoomuffin and others if you have a chance to test some of these files and please post your results. For me this is still a step backwards as this means that usual sources will not provide any sound out of the inner woofer of the 300.

I haven’t tested yet, but how would these test channels be any different than the dolby atmos disc I have that offers the same configurations for testing?

Not sure. Someone that is a lot smarter at this would have to clarify why certain files would be different. It seems to have some different locations from 7.1 and other test files that I have tried and that could be the reason. This is a definite change from the previous behavior though.

Well for one thing - I tested multichannel 7.1 PCM last night and can confirm rears are still disabled and going through the height channels.

doesnt make any sense to me

K

krion

Trending Lyricist I

If it is intentional I am expecting a detailed, in-depth technical explanation on the Sonos blog to explain the reasons why. I'm not convinced at all how this could be more accurately immersive than what was happening before but I'm open to reason.

It's great that people think their set up sounds amazing as is, my Era 300 surrounds sound good as well. However, the point is they could sound even better, if this change was reversed.

This 100% for me also. If it sounds better in the test rooms/setups they have then give us a chance to see what is best for our specific setup. Instead they just force the updates/possible bugs onto us and hope we are happy with the results.

However after more thorough testing I have been able to get the 300s to play out of the inner sides with this test file - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ENZuPSOCRP-RfN6yrWzcAQZnPmY31MG/view?t=5 found through this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/comments/11qqv95/surround_sound_test_files_in_almost_every_format/. If you download more of the atmos test files maybe you will find others that allow the 300s to play out of the inner woofers also. I did have to download the files to a pc and connect them to my soundbar through e-arc to get them to play correctly. @dominiklei @Snoomuffin and others if you have a chance to test some of these files and please post your results. For me this is still a step backwards as this means that usual sources will not provide any sound out of the inner woofer of the 300.

If the inner side tweeter’s working for you when playing this file (I’ll be able to test this weekend), then Sonos has more explaining to do haha. Will they say that your system goes against their design and is therefore bugged?

P

ProfessorFrag

Enthusiast II

FYI, someone on Reddit has posted a video of the product manager for the ERA 300 explaining that both sides of the ERA 300 fire when used as surrounds. Just in case anybody didn’t have a chance to see the earlier YouTube video before Sonos took it down.

https://www.reddit.com/u/6over6/s/ekFTedFm0W

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

FYI, someone on Reddit has posted a video of the product manager for the ERA 300 explaining that both sides of the ERA 300 fire when used as surrounds. Just in case anybody didn’t have a chance to see the earlier YouTube video before Sonos took it down.

https://www.reddit.com/u/6over6/s/ekFTedFm0W

Sonos was all for explaining the front firing and it made sense why they did it. But now there’s really no explanation as to why rears are disabled and route to the top aside from “it sounds better” all of a sudden.

S

sixoversix

Avid Contributor I

Sonos, you really expect us to believe you made a speaker with 6 drivers and you willfully deactivate 3 of them in a way that also does not support the speaker placement/arrangement for 9.1.4 surround. I am calling your BS. Otherwise all we needed was a height channel on the era 100s.

Not to mention, I did extensive testing a few months ago on the old Arc, each individual channels had each speaker (outside the actual intended center driver) working in surround tests. Now there is a noticeable hole behind the listener. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THIS COMPANY RUNNING, OWN YOUR MISTAKES, FIX THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM.

S

Snoomuffin

Enthusiast II

Sonos, you really expect us to believe you made a speaker with 6 drivers and you willfully deactivate 3 of them in a way that also does not support the speaker placement/arrangement for 9.1.4 surround. I am calling your BS. Otherwise all we needed was a height channel on the era 100s.

Not to mention, I did extensive testing with individual channels and had each speaker (outside the actual intended center driver) working in surround tests. Now there is a noticeable hole behind the listener. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THIS COMPANY RUNNING, OWN YOUR MISTAKES, FIX THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM.

Sonos really s*** the bed on this. It’s weirdest feeling when nothing comes from behind and only shoots off to the sides.

as I mentioned before this system now acts like a 5.1.4 system.

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

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