Hi @Downsideup
Thank you for this example, and with the comparison to Arc. I have a meeting with some engineers on Monday to discuss feedback like this that we are receiving. I’ll add this as an example to be discussed.
I would like to add another scene, which due to the error works much worse on the ARC Ultra than on the previous ARC. It is a music video by Lady Gaga - „hold my hands“ - this video can be found on the UHD Top Gun Maverick under extras.
At the end of the video, a plane flies through the picture from the back left. This also sounded much more precise on the ARC and is imprecise and washed out on the Ultra because the Ultra also plays the rears.
Hello, I just bought an arc ultra and era 100 can you confirm that there is indeed a problem and that you will deal with it because we are still in doubt, it seems that this is a bug considered as perhaps normal by your teams... I plan to return everything unfortunately at this price it is not normal. the subject is still two months old and there is still no fix... sorry for my English and have a nice day
Hello, I just bought an arc ultra and era 100 can you confirm that there is indeed a problem and that you will deal with it because we are still in doubt, it seems that this is a bug considered as perhaps normal by your teams... I plan to return everything unfortunately at this price it is not normal. the subject is still two months old and there is still no fix... sorry for my English and have a nice day
It is so sad that this Customer will return the Sonos products primarily because there is no Sonos acknowledgment of this issue and commitment to mitigate!
with all due respect to the sonos teams and especially those present on this forum: the problem will be discussed in a meeting, then we will talk about it to the sound engineers, then to management, then we will think about whether it is normal or not etc etc.. while waiting two months later after the publication of the problem nothing has changed.
Sorry if I am a little impatient but at this price it makes you think, you wonder if it is not better to use the legal withdrawal period because we have the impression that the problem is not recognized
I recommend to write email (eyerone with the issue) to ceo@sonos.com , in the past it was always very helpful.
I recommend to write email (eyerone with the issue) to ceo@sonos.com , in the past it was always very helpful.
I did this already in november with very detailed informations about this 5.1 soundtrack issue from my investigation and testing. They replied with this answer (part of it): „Thank you so much for this information and for testing with different TV settings as well. I have relayed this to the engineering teams here at Sonos in regard to this issue so that they can properly diagnose why this is happening and research a solution.“
They know about this issue already since a long time!
@Corry P many people here are annoyed here and many have been fobbed off by Sonos. Please can you take our comments seriously.
i have emailed ceo@sonos and they have told me this error is by design and immersive ‘lol’.
Can we have some recognition of the issue and a timeline to repair. We were guaranteed products would not be released unless they worked properly. The arc ultra is a joke to be fair. I am so disappointed.
It’s a shame as it should have been released when it was working properly. It will be great once the software is sorted.
Following my previous message, here’s a few information that may help to diagnose the “Arc Ultra 5.1 sounds wrong but Atmos is OK” issue. I’ve found a few versions of the Dolby Atmos trailer “Amaze” with different audio encodings. All of them sounds great on my Arc “original” + Sub3 + Symfonisks.
At one point in this trailer, you can hear a bird flying around you. The bird is supposed to start at the back and should fly to the front, passing on your right. This is a simple but realistic spatialisation test.
When it sounds RIGHT, you can hear the bird flying all around you, and when it sounds WRONG, it only goes left and right in front of you. The difference is very easy to spot.
I play the files directly from my LG CX TV, using passthrough (should be no transcoding from the TV).
dolby-atmos-trailer_amaze_1080.mp4 : WRONG (shows “Dolby Surround Multichannel PCM 5.1” in the Sonos app)
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 1 min 3 s
Source duration : 1 min 3 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 993 KiB (3%)
Source stream size : 994 KiB (3%)
Default : Yes
Alternate group : 1
mdhd_Duration : 63552
dolby-vision-amaze-(dolby-vision)-(www.demolandia.net).mp4 : RIGHT (shows “Dolby Atmos” in Sonos app)
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Format settings : Dolby Surround EX
Codec ID : ec-3
Duration : 56 s 192 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 4.29 MiB (2%)
Service kind : Complete Main
Encoded date : 2017-04-13 20:09:18 UTC
Tagged date : 2017-04-13 20:09:18 UTC
Complexity index : 14
Number of dynamic objects : 13
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Dialog Normalization : -31 dB
compr : 0.53 dB
dmixmod : 3
ltrtcmixlev : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dB
oLG] Amaze (4K Dolby Vision) {4K DoVi & Dolby Atmos Digital Plus}.mkv : RIGHT (shows “Dolby Atmos” in Sonos app)
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Format settings : Dolby Surround EX
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 56 s 192 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 4.29 MiB (2%)
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Complexity index : 14
Number of dynamic objects : 13
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Dialog Normalization : -31 dB
compr : 0.53 dB
dmixmod : 3
ltrtcmixlev : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dB
I’ve found another file, named “eDolby] Amaze (Widescreen) {FHD SDR & Dolby Atmos TrueHD}.mkv” with 4 audio tracks, but my TV does not show their real names, so I can’t known which is which (3 are WRONG, eshown as Dolby Digital 5.1 in Sonos app] and 1 is not shown by the TV)
Audio #1
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID : A_TRUEHD
Duration : 1 min 3 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 694 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 9 096 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Stream size : 50.7 MiB (20%)
Title : Surround 7.1
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray
Number of dynamic objects : 15
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Audio #2
ID : 3
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1 min 3 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 4.85 MiB (2%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray
Dialog Normalization : -31 dB
compr : -0.28 dB
cmixlev : -3.0 dB
surmixlev : -3 dB
dmixmod : Lt/Rt
ltrtcmixlev : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dB
Audio #3
ID : 4
Format : E-AC-3 JOC
Format/Info : Enhanced AC-3 with Joint Object Coding
Commercial name : Dolby Digital Plus with Dolby Atmos
Format profile : Blu-ray Disc
Codec ID : A_EAC3
Duration : 1 min 3 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 280 kb/s
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 9.69 MiB (4%)
Title : Surround 7.1
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Complexity index : 12
Number of dynamic objects : 11
Bed channel count : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration : LFE
Dialog Normalization : -31 dB
compr : 0.53 dB
cmixlev : -3.0 dB
surmixlev : -3 dB
dmixmod : Lt/Rt
ltrtcmixlev : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dB
Audio #4
ID : 5
ID in the original source medium : 4353 (0x1101)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1 min 3 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 4.84 MiB (2%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray
Dialog Normalization : -31 dB
compr : 0.53 dB
dynrng : 0.27 dB
cmixlev : -3.0 dB
surmixlev : -3 dB
dmixmod : Lt/Rt
ltrtcmixlev : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dB
My 2 cents,
Julien.
Hi @Gavalar
@Corry P many people here are annoyed here and many have been fobbed off by Sonos. Please can you take our comments seriously.
Yes - that is why I am having a meeting later today.
Hi @Fennec104
Thank you for the examples. We do not perform any audio conversion, however - if the app reports “Dolby Surround Multichannel PCM 5.1”, then that is what is being supplied to the Arc Ultra’s HDMI port from the TV. As much as I would like it if Passthrough meant “untouched”, some TV manufacturers seem not to stick to this convention.
Hi @Fennec104
Thank you for the examples. We do not perform any audio conversion, however - if the app reports “Dolby Surround Multichannel PCM 5.1”, then that is what is being supplied to the Arc Ultra’s HDMI port from the TV. As much as I would like it if Passthrough meant “untouched”, some TV manufacturers seem not to stick to this convention.
Hi and thanks for your answer.
My issue is not that the content is somehow “converted” to 5.1. I deliberately send 5.1 to the Ultra, here.
it’s that the same content (multiple versions of the same trailer) sound right when I provide Dolby Atmos to the Arc Ultra, but wrong when I provide 5.1 (I lose the surround effect, since rear is also played from the Arc Ultra, and way louder).
Hi @Fennec104
Understood - thanks again for the examples!
Has anyone tested the new system firmware version 82.3-60160 released 7 January 2025?
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/release-notes-sonos-system-updates
Since Sonos is not clear about the changes, only stating “bug fixes and improved performance” we do not know if it has an effect on this issue…
By the way: just read the CEO has left. Let's hope the new one will bring more focus (money) to software issues!
Has anyone tested the new system firmware version 82.3-60160 released 7 January 2025?
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/release-notes-sonos-system-updates
Since Sonos is not clear about the changes, only stating “bug fixes and improved performance” we do not know if it has an effect on this issue…
I hopefully tested it a few days ago, but 5.1 surround sound is played incorrectly as before.
Wow… this issue is still unresolved … noticed it since arc ultra release day. Not sure how such a basic test is missed out during the pre-launch internal product test phase… wonder what other tests were not done…
We watched Wicked on Amazon Prime today and the overall sound between the Arc Ultra and our Era 100 Surrounds actually sounded excellent (Multichannel 7.1)
We watched Wicked on Amazon Prime today and the overall sound between the Arc Ultra and our Era 100 Surrounds actually sounded excellent (Multichannel 7.1)
We know it, 7.1 sounds excelllent, Dolby Atmos also. We are talking here about a 5.1 surround sound issue…
Watching this thread with interest!
I’ve just ordered my first ever Sonos system (Arc Ultra + Sub gen4) with the intention of adding Symfonisk picture frame speakers as rears - because my sofa has to sit flush to the wall.
Although I try and watch Atmos content when available, we do have a lot of content that’s 5.1 only (including UK ota TV broadcasts which are 5.1 Dolby digital). If this isn’t an issue that’s going to be rectified asap (none of this “it’s by design” nonsense) I’ll have to return my system and look elsewhere
Under no circumstances is it acceptable to have rear channel audio playing from a front speaker when there are rears present. Mixing it in when it’s in a soundbar only scenario is fine, but when rear speakers are added to the setup 100% of the rear channel data should be sent to the surrounds - none of it should come from the bar!
As a minimum it should be a user selectable choice
I considered getting the Era 300s and having them up high and upside down (due to sofa against the wall), but as soon as I saw that the front drivers are disabled, and all the surround channels currently play through the top driver, I decided not to waste my money. Again that decision is completely idiotic, and has directly lost you a sale! It should be up to the user what drivers are used for what. If we’re paying for the whole speaker it’s up to us how much of the speaker we get to use!
IMO the back channels should be played through the front driver, surrounds from the side, and overhead atmos from the top
TripleBobatron - I chose the Era 100s over the Era 300s precisely because the 300’s front drivers are disabled in Surround configurations. With the Era 100s I can just aim the speaker toward our wall hugging couch. Unfortunately the issues with the Arc Ultra 5.1 kind oh messed that up.
I have a meeting with some engineers on Monday to discuss feedback like this that we are receiving.
Hi Corry,
how was the meeting yesterday? Do we all have to sell our Arc Ultra or is there still hope? ;)
Hi @Zorro88
It was delayed until this evening due to someone being off work sick.
I will update you all as soon as I have something that I can share with you - please be aware that it may take approval and therefore a bit more time.
TripleBobatron - I chose the Era 100s over the Era 300s precisely because the 300’s front drivers are disabled in Surround configurations. With the Era 100s I can just aim the speaker toward our wall hugging couch. Unfortunately the issues with the Arc Ultra 5.1 kind oh messed that up.
Can they be side mounted and pointed at the seating? I was under the impression the 100s and 300s HAD to be behind the seating? I was looking at the symfonisk purely because they’re slim enough that they’d technically be ‘behind’ me
In an ideal world the 300s would support side-wall mounting rather than needing to be behind - use the front driver for surround channel data (firing sound directly at the seating area), and the upwards firing for overhead atmos data….
This is a configuration my old Samsung system supported really well (and sounded amazing), giving a great atmos bubble with accurate tracking… up until it died and Samsung couldn’t repair it
TripleBobatron - I look at the Era 100 more like a traditional bookshelf speaker in the the woofer and tweeters point out the front of the speaker. With my couch being against the wall and a chair on each side of the couch, there just isn’t a lot of room to hang speakers on the wall or even position a couple of speaker stands next to the couch or chairs. Having had various home theater setups in the past I know I like the surround rear sound to primarily be directed toward the right and left of those seated. With the Era 100s I have the right rear speaker on a dresser type furniture piece with the Era 100 pointed at a slight angle back toward the seating and the left rear speaker on an equally high bookshelf aimed at those seated. The Era 300 design doesn’t lend itself for placement within a bookshelf. To me the form factor of the Era 100 makes it a little easier to place the speaker pretty much wherever you happen to have a place for them. I also feel the Arc Ultra itself gives me the Dolby Atmosphere immersion on its own with the Era 100s giving me the “fly by” sound I enjoy while watching a movie like Top Gun. To be totally forthcoming, when I purchased the Arc Ultra and the Era 100s I already had two Sonos Play 5s and a Sonos Sub (Gen. 2) in the same room. At this point I only use the Play 5s for Music and can reconfigure the Sub with them if I need more Base.
Hi,
I'm waiting to receive my arc ultra, I already have 2 Era 100s to put in surround and a Sub 4.
I admit that Im a little afraid of being disappointed in my investment :(
The new CEO said: ” It’s also true that when it doesn’t work, our customers are taken out of the moment and are right to feel that we’ve let them down. I think we’ll all agree that this year we’ve let far too many people down. As we've seen, getting some important things right (Arc Ultra and Ace are remarkable products!) is just not enough when our customers' alarms don't go off, their kids can't hear their playlist during breakfast, their surrounds don 't fire, or they can't pause the music in time to answer the buzzing doorbell. ”
This means that he is informed of the problem!
I have always heard good things about Sonos except this year, I hope that the rest will be positive otherwise next!
On positioning, the recommendations for positioning are made to get you the best possible sound.
If you can’t get your Sonos in the positions recommended give them a try in where you can put them.
My Era-100 surrounds are nowhere close to the recommended position, height or even the direction they are pointing. Still sounds better with them than without. I tried 300s in the same locations and as I expected they weren’t a great improvement over the 100s since I wasn’t seeing the full ability of the multiple drivers in the 300.
I do prefer the Era 100s to my previous Play 1 surrounds.
The Era 300s are a very good sounding Atmos pair in another room of the house.
