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Contributor I
November 9, 2018

WARNING: Beam does not support Dolby Digital Plus, That is a BIG deal

Word of warning for anyone looking at the Beam to start a 5.1 surround sound system, it will NOT work ideally for any streaming box except the Apple TV. I would suggest really doing your research and/or staying away from the Beam if you want a home theater solution.

The Beam does not support Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) and only supports PCM (poor quality) or Dolby Digital. Why does that matter? DD+ is the current standard. Dolby (the only thing Sonos support) sounds good but is hardly used anymore by anything halfway modern. PCM is the audio equivilent to standard definition TV.

DD+ is the de facto standard for streaming boxes and services. Hulu, Netflix, HBO and I want to say Plex support this standard and only this standard. Those services do not use Dolby Digital. To get Dolby Digital, that means the stream must be downconverted (transcoded) on the fly by either your streaming device or your TV before reaching the Beam. If you do not convert, you are forced to use the poor quality PCM.

Now here's the rub. Few TVs downconvert. If you have one that does? Great! You should have few problems. Thing is though today, few streaming boxes do as well. In fact, the only one that does that I can tell is the Apple TV 4K. The nVidia Shield does not, nor does any modern Roku device. The 2016 Ruku Ultra does, but the 2017 and 2018 models do NOT. Looking at Roku forums, a software update from Roku may have removed that option thus meaning no Roku converts DD+ to D.

I can not believe Sonos is selling a device, geared for home theater, that does not support what is a very common standard. Every single streaming device support DD+ along with all the major players including Netflix and Hulu. It is THE standard, yet Sonos does not support it.

Keep this in mind as you're researching. I find it very disappointing, and will be returning my Sonos products.
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81 replies

Avid Contributor I
January 20, 2020

Word of warning for anyone looking at the Beam to start a 5.1 surround sound system, it will NOT work ideally for any streaming box except the Apple TV. I would suggest really doing your research and/or staying away from the Beam if you want a home theater solution.

The Beam does not support Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) and only supports PCM (poor quality) or Dolby Digital. Why does that matter? DD+ is the current standard. Dolby (the only thing Sonos support) sounds good but is hardly used anymore by anything halfway modern. PCM is the audio equivilent to standard definition TV.

DD+ is the de facto standard for streaming boxes and services. Hulu, Netflix, HBO and I want to say Plex support this standard and only this standard. Those services do not use Dolby Digital. To get Dolby Digital, that means the stream must be downconverted (transcoded) on the fly by either your streaming device or your TV before reaching the Beam. If you do not convert, you are forced to use the poor quality PCM.

Now here's the rub. Few TVs downconvert. If you have one that does? Great! You should have few problems. Thing is though today, few streaming boxes do as well. In fact, the only one that does that I can tell is the Apple TV 4K. The nVidia Shield does not, nor does any modern Roku device. The 2016 Ruku Ultra does, but the 2017 and 2018 models do NOT. Looking at Roku forums, a software update from Roku may have removed that option thus meaning no Roku converts DD+ to D.

I can not believe Sonos is selling a device, geared for home theater, that does not support what is a very common standard. Every single streaming device support DD+ along with all the major players including Netflix and Hulu. It is THE standard, yet Sonos does not support it.

Keep this in mind as you're researching. I find it very disappointing, and will be returning my Sonos products.

sonos of other decodings not affected !!  customers don't care, they only have an interest in selling products .... problems don't care .... they don't even read about forun

 

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February 3, 2020

I think it’s the latter. I don’t think TVs do any transcoding at all, but pass the “request” received by HDMI-CEC from the Beam back to the source device, and it is up to the source to send the appropriate signal, even if it doesn't show up as a normal audio option in that device’s settings.

However, this is speculation on my part. There’s an internal logic that appeals to me, but I haven’t researched it. One of these days, I’ll look up the HDMI-CEC spec and see what it says about passing that data request back to a source. Or, if there’s a video engineer willing to confirm or debunk my theory, it would be nice to have an authoritative source.  

I think this is true. A TV will only pass signals through between devices. So if the source only carries DD+ and PCM you will likely never get anything above PCM from the Beam. 
 

Why modern TVs with all their smartness can’t mimic the conversion capabilities of an Apple TV is however at but puzzling. 

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Airgetlam
February 3, 2020

Not so puzzling to me. Simple cost. Why add $10 of electronics that 99% of users won’t ever use? Better to meet a price point to sell the TV.

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Bruce
February 3, 2020

Not so puzzling to me. Simple cost. Why add $10 of electronics that 99% of users won’t ever use? Better to meet a price point to sell the TV.

Smart TV’s are swamped with useless features. Just seems odd that Samsung and Sony are fine with implementing this on their Blu-ray players and gaming consoles but leave them out on their TVs which they try to (at least Samsung) brand as smart hubs for the home. 
 

But my general expectation/concern is that this feature will soon disappear from Blu-ray players, gaming consoles, Apple TV’s etc. because it is mainly serving to support an ancient file format that almost all manufactures of amps and soundbars have abandoned years ago.
 

Once that happens and every streaming service and Blu-ray will have moved on from DD 5.1 to DD+, DTS, Atmos or what else is coming, Sonos will be nothing but stereo. 

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controlav
Lead Maestro
February 4, 2020

But my general expectation/concern is that this feature will soon disappear from Blu-ray players, gaming consoles, Apple TV’s etc. because it is mainly serving to support an ancient file format that almost all manufactures of amps and soundbars have abandoned years ago.
 

Once that happens and every streaming service and Blu-ray will have moved on from DD 5.1 to DD+, DTS, Atmos or what else is coming, Sonos will be nothing but stereo. 

That can only happen with the complete retirement of the S/PDIF optical transport, which is a ways off. DD 5.1 remains the universal surround standard, despite what Sony seem to think. (Which is ironic as the S in S/PDIF is of course Sony).

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Author of the leading independent Sonos apps for Android, MacOS, iOS, Windows and Xbox.
jgatie
February 4, 2020

DD 5.1 is also the ATSC standard multi-channel format in the US, Mexico, Canada, and other countries.  Any station broadcast in HD with multi-channel audio is required to use it.  As such, It ain't going nowhere.

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February 4, 2020

DD 5.1 is also the ATSC standard multi-channel format in the US, Mexico, Canada, and other countries.  Any station broadcast in HD with multi-channel audio is required to use it.  As such, It ain't going nowhere.


I am sure things vary from country to country, but flow tv seems to be a dying breed. 
 

In any event, those requirements, I assume, don’t apply to streaming and thus does not apply to any streaming boxes etc. 

 

So you could say that Sonos will continue to be able to play surround from flow tv in those regions, but streaming services are rapidly abandoning DD 5.1 and so are the streaming boxes.
 

With most manufacturers embracing more modern standards, the incentive for Apple TV’s and the like to continue supporting conversion to DD 5.1 is steadily decreasing. 

 

But all is well. If one is fine with watching non-HD DVDs and prefer flow tv rather than the crazy haze of streaming, Sonos will be the perfect partner - just as in the good old days

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jgatie
February 4, 2020

 

 

But all is well. If one is fine with watching non-HD DVDs and prefer flow tv rather than the crazy haze of streaming, Sonos will be the perfect partner - just as in the good old days

 

90% of my watching is streaming, and I’ve not found a single streaming service that does not offer DD 5.1.  I’m also someone who won’t buy a soundbar for my main system, and thus I have a modern wired surround setup with capability for all current formats.  Just so happens my room is such that anything more than 5.1 would be overkill.  In short, I’m not worried about DD 5.1 leaving any content I view and that has nothing to do with defending Sonos’ soundbars (which I have criticized from the start).

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February 4, 2020

 

 

But all is well. If one is fine with watching non-HD DVDs and prefer flow tv rather than the crazy haze of streaming, Sonos will be the perfect partner - just as in the good old days

 

90% of my watching is streaming, and I’ve not found a single streaming service that does not offer DD 5.1.  I’m also someone who won’t buy a soundbar for my main system, and thus I have a modern wired surround setup with capability for all current formats.  Just so happens my room is such that anything more than 5.1 would be overkill.  In short, I’m not worried about DD 5.1 leaving any content I view and that has nothing to do with defending Sonos’ soundbars (which I have criticized from the start).


It all depends on the combination of streaming service and streaming device. For instance, Chromecast + Netflix only serves up DD+ and PCM. No DD 5.1. 
 

In terms of what is needed, I fully agree that DD 5.1 is perfectly fine for your average living room which is where Sonos has its intended user base. Personally, I am fully satisfied with my combo of an Apple TV and Sonos which always gives me DD 5.1. But would prefer Sonos opened up to some of the newer formats before this becomes a real issue.

 

The new players with HDMI should be capable enough. 

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Lyricist I
May 11, 2020


The Beam does not support Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) and only supports PCM (poor quality) .

 


ARC and Optical cannot physically support DD+ and can only support 2 channels of PCM. As an ARC and Optical only product, it's not even an option for them to support it.

Also,another tip. PCM is uncompressed audio. It is the farthest you can get from poor quality. . It is 1,411 Kbps PER CHANNEL at CD quality, which is lower than Disc based LPCM streams. Dolby Digital is compressed and lossy at 640 Kbps FOR ALL 6 CHANNELS COMBINED. Just a tiny difference...lol

5.1 channels of uncompressed audio would be 8.466 Kpbs aka 8.5 Mbps. More channels, do the math. Thus the advent of Tru-HD and DTS Master Audio...aka Lossless codecs. The quality of uncompressed audio without the huge bitrates.

The issue is that ARC and Optical do not have the capability to handle the large bitrates. The bandwidth limitations of ARC and optical allow for only 2 channels of PCM and the DDP, Dolby True HD, DTS-MA data rates also exceeds the bandwidth limitations as well. ARC and Optical output is the exact same digital stream (SPDIF) simply going out whichever of the two outputs you tell it to.

The fact is here, 99% of Sonos customers could not tell the difference between Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus. Especially through a Beam alone. The drivers are too small and the electronics too low end to make it possible. You'd need to be at a significantly higher price tag and quality level of hardware before it would be tangible to the average Sonos consumer.

Matter of fact, you can go full 5.1 Sonos and still it would go unnoticed. An simple enthusiast would notice DTS vs Dolby Digital LONG before they would notice DDP vs DD. DTS is a significantly better performing decoder than Dolby, and has been for many years. However, Dolby has done a fantastic job of marketing the brand, especially Atmos. With Blu ray's going the way of the cassette (you see Samsung announced they are no longer making Bluray players..at all anymore.), and DTS being the dominant player in that space...they have reason for concern looking forward.

Nonetheless That's a big part of the reason why you don't have DDP. You wont hear it. The other part of that is that in order to offer DDP, they would have to pay a higher royalty to Dolby per unit sold.

If you wont hear it, why the hell would they pay it? It's giving away money and they are a public company now.

It's just business folks.

 

I have tested encoding my blurays with both AC3 and E-AC3 (DD+) audio tracks and notice a big difference when playing through my LG Oled to Beam even though the DD+ track is obviously being down-mixed. Do you know how/why this is possible? 
Also, how does AAC 5.1 come into the mix? Compared to the DD5.1 sound, I find that AAC5.1 is much more immersive but gives a slightly muffled sound (less clarity). I’m just trying to work out what is the best format to encode my blurays for a 5.1 sonos system. Any help greatly appreciated

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