We've determined there to be an issue with Dolby Digital playback devices (including the Sonos PLAYBAR) and Samsung televisions in the JS and JU series. An example of a TV model number of this line would be the Samsung UN55JS8500. The optical output from these televisions doesn't pass a consistent signal to devices wired in through that connection. This could present when you're watching any Dolby Digital content through the TV's optical connection.
As a workaround if you're using one of these TVs, you can set the output of the TV to PCM (Stereo). There isn't any issue currently with that TV streaming stereo content to the PLAYBAR through the optical. Otherwise, you can look into using a different device. Some suggestions for setups and community recommended devices can be found here on our megathread.
We are working with Samsung on this issue, but there isn't currently a timeframe for a resolution. We'll update you as soon as there are any further details.
Because of the nature of this issue, we've added these televisions to our PLAYBAR Compatibility page which can be found here.
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DarwinOSX,
If I were to guess, I'd suggest it's the implementation of the parser for the data coming in through the optical connection. In my mind, some companies add their own "features" so that they can send special commands to their own sound bars, and do "special" things. Completely unsubstantiated thought, though. But that would cause an issue to the implementation in other sound bars, when it receives a data command it doesn't comprehend, since it was built to the Dolby Digital specs, and doesn't know how to process "extra" data.
I'd suggest that some sound bars are more tolerant to this kind of 'extra' data than Sonos might be. And if I'm correct, Sonos may want to add some additional tolerance in their software decoder.
But as I say, I'm just guessing at this. I can't come up with any other rational explanation as to why certain soundbars don't have this problem, and Sonos does, with specific TV types. All I know is that with 2 Sony TVs, and 2 Vizio TVs, I've not had a single problem of this type.
And I suspect there's some communication between Sonos and Samsung, for instance, that they're unwilling to share publicly, trying to track down the issue. I'm sure neither side is willing to accept blame in the eyes of the public, but I do find it interesting that to this point, most of the "fixes" have come as firmware updates to the Samsung line of TVs. But then again, Sonos could have easily hidden their own updates to the code in their more frequent software updates, so who knows?
If I were to guess, I'd suggest it's the implementation of the parser for the data coming in through the optical connection. In my mind, some companies add their own "features" so that they can send special commands to their own sound bars, and do "special" things. Completely unsubstantiated thought, though. But that would cause an issue to the implementation in other sound bars, when it receives a data command it doesn't comprehend, since it was built to the Dolby Digital specs, and doesn't know how to process "extra" data.
I'd suggest that some sound bars are more tolerant to this kind of 'extra' data than Sonos might be. And if I'm correct, Sonos may want to add some additional tolerance in their software decoder.
But as I say, I'm just guessing at this. I can't come up with any other rational explanation as to why certain soundbars don't have this problem, and Sonos does, with specific TV types. All I know is that with 2 Sony TVs, and 2 Vizio TVs, I've not had a single problem of this type.
And I suspect there's some communication between Sonos and Samsung, for instance, that they're unwilling to share publicly, trying to track down the issue. I'm sure neither side is willing to accept blame in the eyes of the public, but I do find it interesting that to this point, most of the "fixes" have come as firmware updates to the Samsung line of TVs. But then again, Sonos could have easily hidden their own updates to the code in their more frequent software updates, so who knows?
if that is true then how is it non-Sonos devices don't have this issue when connected by optical to a Samsung TV?
I've had a high end Yamaha Soundbar and now Kef LS 50 wireless speakers connected to the optical on my JS9000 and neither of these have this issue. If Samsung had this issue with all other devices it would be very widely known.
That's why I wonder if the Playbase will have this issue or if Sonos has a fix in that devices optical connection.
I've thought about that as well - I own an JS8500 and recently changed from an HDMI 5.1 HT-in-a-box system to the Q-Acoustics M4 soundbar (which uses optical) and never once experienced audio drops with the M4 (or the HTB for that matter). My understanding it becomes an issue only on surround systems connected via optical. So clearly it seems that JS owners' last hope is that Sonos finally decides to integrate HDMI in their future products.
I would think, simply, it's a matter of more robust error correction or tolerance. Sonos doesn't have aggressive enough error correction.
I recall reading a thread about Dolby error correction in theaters and how the decoding box would display how much noise and garble the signal incoming had, and how much error correction it was applying to interpolate bad packets.
Also, since other TV's don't have this issue, there must be extra garbage in the Samsung ouput. So it's not entirely Sonos' fault...... but if a Vizio can work on a Samsung without drops..... then maybe Sonos needs to spend some more R&D time on their gear.
I recall reading a thread about Dolby error correction in theaters and how the decoding box would display how much noise and garble the signal incoming had, and how much error correction it was applying to interpolate bad packets.
Also, since other TV's don't have this issue, there must be extra garbage in the Samsung ouput. So it's not entirely Sonos' fault...... but if a Vizio can work on a Samsung without drops..... then maybe Sonos needs to spend some more R&D time on their gear.
Certainly possible. But then the question becomes why is the TV sending so much garbage? it's supposed to be a digital connection, the clarity of the data should be there. It's either a zero or a one, right? 🙂
That's what my layman understanding is. It's 100% digital. It's not like a older movie print where the Dolby Digital was written to piece of magnetic tape on the 35mm print.
So at this point, should we consider this glitch unsolvable?
I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine both companies are aware of the issue, and are working to resolve it. It may be all at one end, or the other, or somewhere in between. But most of these companies, Sonos included, don't tell the customers what they're working on, so as not to set unreasonable expectations.
In my years of live support on games, I've seen several cases of "yes, we've fixed that bug" fall apart at the last second with an unexpected consequence, and get pulled from a software release. If I'd promised the fix to our customers, I'd have been roasted, and they'd have been quite unhappy. Better to keep quiet, and then announce it with the release of the software. Shoot, there were many bugs we never let people know about, even when we fixed them. It's not about crowing the accomplishment of the team, it's about getting the experience correct. None of my programmers were happy when a bug was found. And they would do everything possible to figure out the fix.
In my years of live support on games, I've seen several cases of "yes, we've fixed that bug" fall apart at the last second with an unexpected consequence, and get pulled from a software release. If I'd promised the fix to our customers, I'd have been roasted, and they'd have been quite unhappy. Better to keep quiet, and then announce it with the release of the software. Shoot, there were many bugs we never let people know about, even when we fixed them. It's not about crowing the accomplishment of the team, it's about getting the experience correct. None of my programmers were happy when a bug was found. And they would do everything possible to figure out the fix.
In my years of live support on games, I've seen several cases of "yes, we've fixed that bug" fall apart at the last second with an unexpected consequence, and get pulled from a software release. If I'd promised the fix to our customers, I'd have been roasted, and they'd have been quite unhappy. Better to keep quiet, and then announce it with the release of the software. Shoot, there were many bugs we never let people know about, even when we fixed them. It's not about crowing the accomplishment of the team, it's about getting the experience correct. None of my programmers were happy when a bug was found. And they would do everything possible to figure out the fix.
You are quite right, but there's a point - especially when it's an issue with connectivity to something made by another firm - when engineers get grumpy and start just blaming the other party and give up.
If, for example, the Sonos half of the problem was in their digital input hardware, then there's perhaps no immediately obvious firmware fix. That doesn't mean it's impossible, only unimaginative fools use the word "impossible", but "harder than I have time to fix" and "requires more ingenuity than I possess" are phrases I've used myself, though, in similar situations.
Note two things:
1. That response post, at the top of the thread, makes it clear that Sonos think this is something Samsung are fixing, and
2. They've left it up long past the time when it's become very obvious to the many customers of both that there's no fix in place.
So I personally think they've given up even managing this issue at their end; they're certainly not following the announcement principles you just described.
Issue persists with latest revision of JS/KS-9000 software, I had dropouts last night.
Good point. They've already admitted there's an issue, both vendors apparently agree there's an issue, and they thought they had a solve.... They unfortunately did not.
It's a shame my $2000 Samsung will be crippled with Sonos. It's a shame my $1400 Playbar + Sub will be crippled with Samsung. I spent **way too much money** for this embarrassing problem.
It's a shame my $2000 Samsung will be crippled with Sonos. It's a shame my $1400 Playbar + Sub will be crippled with Samsung. I spent **way too much money** for this embarrassing problem.
Yet another reason that Sonos' refusal to provide HDMI is baffling. It's not because optical is simpler and they should stop with that excuse. I think they just don't want to spend the $$ on R&D.
New experiment. Samsung updated to firmware 1500. Audio delay changed from 50 to zero (well, I'm still debating 0 or 10).
How many of you used the TV's audio sync delay and got dropouts? Vs using the Sonos sync delay? I have always had the TV do the work.
How many of you used the TV's audio sync delay and got dropouts? Vs using the Sonos sync delay? I have always had the TV do the work.
Update: new firmware still drops out.
Ugh.
Last night was CHOICE! Watching part 2 of The Defiant Ones. Drop outs like crazy, every 2 minutes. Finally caved and put my Samsun in stereo PCM output.... there were STILL tiny little dropouts. Maybe 1/2 seconds tops, but it was painfully obvious on such a music heavy show. I don't even know anymore
Has anyone considered an optical switcher or some other intermediary in between the Playbar and TV to try to get a clean signal?
Or something that cleans up the optical signal like this?
https://www.amazon.com/SPDIF-iPurifier-Digital-Optical-Filter/dp/B01KKFTM5S/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_tr_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AQ3041BC7Z5ARM1879QD
That looks awesome. At $150 who's going to try it for us? :D
Problem is you'd have to hide it somewhere, I assume most of us have a wall mounted set with the Playbar an inch or so below. Maybe it could go in the wall with my wiring to the entertainment center....
Problem is you'd have to hide it somewhere, I assume most of us have a wall mounted set with the Playbar an inch or so below. Maybe it could go in the wall with my wiring to the entertainment center....
Well ive had my Samsung JS set to Dolby Digital since i got it a few years back and have NEVER had this problem until yesterday when i updated my sonos controller and playbar to the latest software version. Now when i change channels on my TV (via a BT youview box) i lose sound and it can take up to 3 minutes to come back using dolby digital. Switching to PCM seems to fix the issue but the sound isn't as rich
Sonos version : 7.4 (build 37233160)
Samsung software dated June 2016 : 1501
Like i say this was NOT a problem until yesterday when i updated to the latest Sonos version. Very frustrating!!! I only updated as i was told to by Sonos as i have a diagnostic in as my bridge keeps dropping its LAN connection
Sonos version : 7.4 (build 37233160)
Samsung software dated June 2016 : 1501
Like i say this was NOT a problem until yesterday when i updated to the latest Sonos version. Very frustrating!!! I only updated as i was told to by Sonos as i have a diagnostic in as my bridge keeps dropping its LAN connection
Sonos version : 7.4 (build 37233160)
Samsung software dated June 2016 : 1501
Like i say this was NOT a problem until yesterday when i updated to the latest Sonos version. Very frustrating!!! I only updated as i was told to by Sonos as i have a diagnostic in as my bridge keeps dropping its LAN connection
Same here! I had been getting constant reminders to update my Sonos speakers, and this morning I finally caved and went through with it. Now I am completely dead in the water when it comes to Surround Sound via my PlayBar/Sub/Play1 setup. It had been working flawlessly for almost a year (since I purchased my Samsung TV), but now it only works with PCM. I've updated to the latest Samsung firmware and still no change. I work in software and can appreciate challenges with compatibility. If this is a compat issue with Sonos/Samsung then two companies should strive very hard to avoid breaking things with updates. Again, this was working fine until the Sonos update--now I am toast. VERY frustrating. I've been a big Sonos advocate, but this certainly sours things....
100% agree with that. Ive owned Sonos for years and have not had any real issues until the last few weeks, my system now seems riddled with them. Is there anyway to revert to a previous software version?
Its been awhile since anyone commented here and Firmware 1510 is now out for the JS9000.
Did every one just give up until Sonos realizes it's 2017 and puts HDMI into the Playbar?
Did every one just give up until Sonos realizes it's 2017 and puts HDMI into the Playbar?
1510 drops just as much as 14-whatever. I've 100% given up on Sonos. But since all these components cost thousands of dollars, I'm going to have to wait till something breaks down until I upgrade.
I alos read Sonos went through a big firing and hiring process. I bet everyone who knew anything about the Playbar and it's problems are gone.
I cannot recommend Sonos to friends. Yes it sounds good. No it doesn't work right.
I alos read Sonos went through a big firing and hiring process. I bet everyone who knew anything about the Playbar and it's problems are gone.
I cannot recommend Sonos to friends. Yes it sounds good. No it doesn't work right.
The silence from Sonos on this is deafening.
Since the last update Sonos 8, I have again cuts of sound beetween my Playbar and my TV Samsung UE65JU7080. The software of my TV is 1510... 😠
Thats pretty awful Seems like Sonos has given up so they no longer reply.
Has anyone tried connecting to an HDM to optical converter? Like HDMI from the TV into the converter then the converter to the Playbar?
Hi guys,
The 8.0 software release had a few things relating to the PLAYBAR's audio processing that has improved a lot of issues we've seen with audio dropouts on the optical connection. The player recovers from getting bad data way better than it used to. If you're having any audio dropout issues and you're on the latest build it'd be great if you can give us a call on our support line and work with a technician.
We're definitely still interested in finding any issues and resolving them.
The Samsung JS/JU issue should have been fully resolved with their software release a little while ago, but if anything comes back up, we'd love to know about it so we can work with them to get it fixed again.
The 8.0 software release had a few things relating to the PLAYBAR's audio processing that has improved a lot of issues we've seen with audio dropouts on the optical connection. The player recovers from getting bad data way better than it used to. If you're having any audio dropout issues and you're on the latest build it'd be great if you can give us a call on our support line and work with a technician.
We're definitely still interested in finding any issues and resolving them.
The Samsung JS/JU issue should have been fully resolved with their software release a little while ago, but if anything comes back up, we'd love to know about it so we can work with them to get it fixed again.
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