Please add support for DTS for the Sonos Playbar.


Userlevel 2
A hifi homecinema soundbar without dts support seems not up to date for me. Are there any plans to add dts support?

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I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
I agree the sound is amazing for music as I have switched to Playbar from a Yamaha YSP sound bar and even though the Yamaha had DTS, the quality of Playbar beats it. I would like DTS but its not the end of the world if it doesn't arrive as I now buy films through Apple TV more than Blu-ray now. This way I get both full HD with the dolby digital 5.1 track with it too.
Userlevel 1
I just had a look into my crystal ball that told me that in about six months DTS support will be implemented. And all those like Bernd who have returned their equipment in favour of some competitor will be sorry then! No, seriously, I want DTS too, but give the Sonos guys some time to get it right. Just yelling at them won't do any good. And as we can see from the past, they were implementing some new features into already existing products, so they seem to care about existing customers, too.
Frieder, my decision to return the scrappy PLAYBAR without DTS depends on missing hard facts from Sonos, not a crystal ball opinion or crystal ball wish. I'm still free in my decision to go for Sonos as soon as the PLAYBAR v2 with DTS, HD DD, HD DTS, THX, HDMI or that ever Sonos decides to put in to the bucket, is going to be available. In six month I'm not going to have an unsupported PLAYBAR v1 not capable to get the updates for DTS at all or with just restricted DTS support due to unknown or just not communicated hardware limitations. Trust them and finally get disappointed about the limited functionality of your 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' or maybe not. I'm not in a hurry, I keep my money in my hand and going to throw it at Sonos or another competitor in a free decision because I'm not in a customer lock-in situation to Sonos. As an example just think about the apple shift to the lightning connector. It's your decision to stay with your '30-pin-style'-PLAYBAR I wish you well, but I've warned you.
Userlevel 1
We are not yelling we try to keep it civil but also keep it practical company listen more when you return the products or don't buy their product... don't call name, don't get upset, don't go crazy on the forum just return your product and said it lacks DTS support I don't want it.....Votes with your wallet always works....
I got my money back, I got my money back ... ... therefore I'm free to go for thatever I want. ... therefore I'm not hoping Sonos is going to fulfill my wishes.
Userlevel 1
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
Just for music all Sonos players are fine. Music players are Sonos' core competence. The current 'PLAYBAR home cinema solution' is Sonos' very first tumbling step into a new business. I'm not likely to tumble with Sonos. In case I pay out good money ... ... I want a good solution for the good money. In case I accept an early adopter situation ... ... first of all I want to know it in forefront ... I want clear commitments to customers ... I want open-minded and fair-minded communications ... but I don't want pre-written standard replies - as Sonos does ... but I don't want marketing chit-chat - as Sonos does Anyway, the current Sonos solution is not good enough for the amount of good money you need to pay, neither is the early adopter situation with Sonos convincing me to tumble ahead with their 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' Therefore give your money a voice and return the PLAYBAR without DTS instantly. Return it ! Return it ! Retrun it !
Userlevel 1
To say they are unfriendly...The few times that I have, and the couple times my friends have interacted with Sonos it's been great. If you swing to the sonos forums there has been dozens of features that have been implemented (alarm, sleep timer, favorites, cross fade etc) from users.
Mitchel, you can read my mind. I'm maybe a little bit like your CFO. I want to sit down in my relaxing arm chair, take my tablet remote and watch my video content without thinking about audio formats, without funneling around on the settings of my HD TV or Blu-Ray. And for sure I'm never ever going to accept this degraded comfort level just because Sonos missed important audio formats on the PLAYBAR. That's the point. Bad user experience on video with the PLAYBAR !
Userlevel 1
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
Andy, form my point of view your way of 'enforced change in content purchase' is not leading into a practical solution at all. In case my grandchildren show up with a Blu-Ray in their hands and I can't play it and watch the film together with them the whole Sonos solution is - in simple words - worthless. In general I want to make free decisions about my content providers.
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
At what point did I say I was enforced to changed.
We are not yelling we try to keep it civil but also keep it practical company listen more when you return the products or don't buy their product... don't call name, don't get upset, don't go crazy on the forum just return your product and said it lacks DTS support I don't want it.....Votes with your wallet always works....
Why are you still here then?
Userlevel 1
We are not yelling we try to keep it civil but also keep it practical company listen more when you return the products or don't buy their product... don't call name, don't get upset, don't go crazy on the forum just return your product and said it lacks DTS support I don't want it.....Votes with your wallet always works....
I've learned on this forum a lot of people believe noise from all speakers in a PLAYBAR + SUB + 2x PLAY:3 setup is telling them, they have a properly functioning 5.1 surround system, as I also tried to buy from Sonos. I've figured out by testing on my own, reviewing this forum, manuals of several HD TV sets, manuals of several Blu-Ray players and other public forums, it's unlikely for the majority of PLAYBAR users to have a proper 5.1 system in place, most is likely to be faked 5.1, saying 'Sonos Virtual Surround Sound' due to missing DTS Support and the sad 'Switch to PCM Stereo' hint on the PLAYBAR support forum. If you also review the information from other users on this forum about the big difference between real 5.1 from a DD 5.1 stream and the faked 5.1, saying 'Sonos Virtual Surround Sound' by running the PLAYBAR with just a PCM 2.0 stereo input, you may understand I'm not just a troll to this forum. As long as people are aware they are just running up-mixed PCM 2.0 stereo, they are aware of the big difference and still say 'I'm fine about getting a weak solution for good money', I'm OK, too. But Sonos is not really taking care of those users, 'cause as soon as the PLAYBAR makes some noise from a PCM 2.0 stereo input, they make the users believe everything is fine about their PLAYBAR setup. I recognized this and want to share this information here on forum and everywhere else, if somebody is asking for my humble opinion. Nevertheless I did not make a final decision to go for something else for the multiroom system in the new lodge. I'm going to monitor Sonos' progress in the home cinema business, the PLAYBAR DTS support and a potential PLAYBAR v2. In case they are doing fine, I may return for another trial setup in the future, but for sure the results on this second chance need to be absolutely convincing with outstanding 5.1 support. Anyway I'm not, saying no longer, in a customer lock-in situation with Sonos, as I returned the scrappy PLAYBAR and all the other stuff on time. My expectation about Sonos is, they are not really going to push future development on the PLAYBAR, DTS support and PLAYBAR v2, as long as all the buffalowed users with a faked 5.1, saying 'Sonos Virtual Surround Sound with Stereo input' are keeping their Sonos equipment, stay in a customer lock-in situation and therefore forced to survive with whatever Sonos is going to do about the weak 5.1 support in the Sonos home cinema business, especially on the PLAYBAR product.
Userlevel 1
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
You didn't say you are enforced in writting. Maybe you have other reasons to move to apple TV, but you are not free in your decision, 'cause you are forced to avoid Blu-Rays with common DTS 5.1 audio streams, 'cause they are not going to work properly in your setup. Even if you are likely not to buy Blu-Rays anyway, it's from my point of view not a really free decision.
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
That's right. I moved to Apple TV last year before the playbar was ever released.
Userlevel 1
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
OK to me, but in case you like to use a given Blu-Ray with common DTS 5.1 Audio, you can not use it. Maybe this is not causing issues for you, that's fine to me, too. As I made the decision not to go for apple TV, for me (and my grandchildren) it's going to be unacceptable.
Userlevel 1
To have a good idea to solve a major issue with more than 250 followers and it's just marked as *** UNDER CONSIDERATION *** is - in simple words nothing - nothing, but chit-chat. Do yourself, saying Sonos as a company, a really big favor and give clear commitments to your customers. I've already returned my full Sonos install due to that kind of weak answers from Sonos ! All of you not completely satisfied customers waiting for a valuable answer from Sonos on this issue for in the meantime more than two month: Make the voice of your good money heard and return the scrap.
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Badge +2
I bought it not even thinking twice it didn't support DTS. I'm happy with it nonetheless since I can fiddle around with my PS3 settings to get everything to work reasonably well but if I was using a "regular" Blu-ray player where I didn't have the finite control I have with the PS3 I would have returned it day one. Chalk up another vote for adding DTS support, it's really the only thing missing and it can be patched with a firmware update right?
I own a Playbar and a Sub. My TV is an LG 42LW5500, connected on it are a Bluray Player LG BD420 on HDMI1, and a Sat Receiver VuSolo on HDMI2. From Sat receiver, the sound is Stereo, DD2.0 or DD5.1, those are correctly passed through to the Playbar. From the Bluray Player, in the setup, the Audio Digital Output was set to DTS, on the Playbar, even if you chose DD5.1 or DTS, it was always Stereo. I've changed on the BluRay Player from DTS to BitStream, now DD5.1 is passed through, but, of course DTS stays as Stereo. In my case I have two limitation regarding DTS, first the TV, I suppose it do not support DTS pass through, and the Playbar! I can understand Bernd's frustration, but I don't have buy the Playbar by Sonos, so I had only 14 days to send it back the device. If we suppose that DTS will be supported in the future, then I have to buy a Toslink Switch. I think the sound for the music is amazing for all Sonos devices, and this was the first, and I use more the Playbar for the music as for the TV, so my decision would to not return the Playbar. We are in the beginning of the Playbar history, I think to implement DTS is not simply add some more lines of source codes, I want to give Sonos more time to do it, when I see the quality of the products and the software, the engineers are serious and smart guys!
But one point disappointed me, this is the "zero" reaction of Sonos regarding the future implementation or not of DTS.
Userlevel 1
Tom, in fact Sonos is after more than two month of increasing user requests for a simple answer as 'YES' or 'NO' still unable or unwilling to give clear and strong commitments to current customers. There is no Sonos commitment saying the 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' is from a hardware point of view capable of doing full DTS support whenever Sonos decides to do so, if they do. There is no Sonos commitment saying the 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' is going to be upgraded with DTS on time, in the near future or whenever. There is no Sonos commitment saying the 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' is going to be upgraded with DTS anyway, even if the hardware is capable to work for a DTS upgrade. There is even no Sonos commitment saying in case we do a DTS upgrade for the 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS' it's going to be for free for current customers. Due to all those missing commitments and the weak 5.1 implementation I returned all Sonos equipment and got my good money back. Make the voice of your good money heard, return the scrappy 'beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS'. Return it ! Return it ! Return it !
Userlevel 4
Badge +2
Bernd, I appreciate your passion, many of us are in the same camp, but I think I speak for many when I say you've made your point now. You've returned yours and suggest others do the same. I get an email alert every time you make or edit a post. I don't particularly want to count them but it gets quite tedious when my phone beeps every five minutes to see the same copy/pasted text being pasted over again.
I second that.
Userlevel 1
Sorry about that. I was not aware every re-edit is re-send as an email to all other user, 'cause I never saw any re-sends anywhere. Going to do it in Word and just go for a sinlge copy on future posts. Please accept my apologies for any inconvinience. Bernd
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Dear all, please find attached the last Sonos statement regarding DTS (and transcoding) related connectivity issues for the ‚beta:PLAYBAR without DTS‘ from the German support team. German ORIGINAL : Es ist bei Sonos bekannt, dass diverse Fernsehmodelle keine Lizenzen haben, um den Ton einer externen HDMI Quelle über den optischen Ausgang wiederzugeben. Dies führt dazu, dass die PLAYBAR keinen Ton abspielt, was jedoch vom Fernseher abhängig ist. It is well known at Sonos, that several HD-TV sets are missing the license to play out the audio of an external HDMI source on their optical output. Therefore the PLAYBAR is not playing any audio, but this depends on the HD TV set. I’m speechless … words fail me.
Userlevel 3
Dear all, please find attached the last Sonos statement regarding DTS (and transcoding) related connectivity issues for the ‚beta:PLAYBAR without DTS‘ from the German support team. German ORIGINAL : Es ist bei Sonos bekannt, dass diverse Fernsehmodelle keine Lizenzen haben, um den Ton einer externen HDMI Quelle über den optischen Ausgang wiederzugeben. Dies führt dazu, dass die PLAYBAR keinen Ton abspielt, was jedoch vom Fernseher abhängig ist. It is well known at Sonos, that several HD-TV sets are missing the license to play out the audio of an external HDMI source on their optical output. Therefore the PLAYBAR is not playing any audio, but this depends on the HD TV set. I’m speechless … words fail me.
With all of the tv manufacturers/moels they offer...seems like a very very very small list. https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1931/~/television-compatibility-with-the-playbar
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Dear all, please find attached the last Sonos statement regarding DTS (and transcoding) related connectivity issues for the ‚beta:PLAYBAR without DTS‘ from the German support team. German ORIGINAL : Es ist bei Sonos bekannt, dass diverse Fernsehmodelle keine Lizenzen haben, um den Ton einer externen HDMI Quelle über den optischen Ausgang wiederzugeben. Dies führt dazu, dass die PLAYBAR keinen Ton abspielt, was jedoch vom Fernseher abhängig ist. It is well known at Sonos, that several HD-TV sets are missing the license to play out the audio of an external HDMI source on their optical output. Therefore the PLAYBAR is not playing any audio, but this depends on the HD TV set. I’m speechless … words fail me.
@tua09788 To expand the list you can instantly add my three test HD TV sets: Sony KDL-40X2000, Sony KDL-40Z5800, Philips 40PFL8606K/02 As far as I’m aware the only relevant HD-TV license beyond the free license to forward a given bitstream is maybe ‚DTS 2.0 + Digital Output‘, but this is required to decode DTS 5.1 and down-mix to DTS 2.0 for stereo output on external analog audio devices … or to support the PCM 2.0 stereo workaround on the ‚beta:PLAYBAR v1 without DTS‘. Some of the Sonos support answers have a high cringe factor. (Maybe some of mine, too)
Please DTS support now 😕
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Dear all, just would like to share some additional information about DTS and especially DTS licensing with you. On traditional hardware based audio equipment DTS decoding requires a DTS sound processor chip or a multi norm audio processor chip supporting DTS decoding to play out the sound of a given DTS audio stream. These sound processor chips usually have an ‘embedded’ license and you pay for this license with the chip price, cause the developer and/or supplier of the chip is partner and/or licensee for DTS technologies from DTS Inc. and the developer and/or supplier is taking care of proper licensing. For software based DTS decoding you should become a partner and/or licensee with DTS Inc. , create a valid license contract and pay for a proper license matching the license requirement of your product. As Sonos is still not sharing comprehensive information about the DTS capabilities of the current PLAYBAR hardware and the current PLAYBAR software, my expectation about the relationship between Sonos Inc. and DTS Inc. is as follows: During PLAYBAR development Sonos decided to avoid DTS licensing cost and Sonos initially saved the money for a multi norm audio processor chip on the PLAYBAR hardware and for a DTS software license, too. Therefore they are finally forced to do it in software and must go for a valid DTS software license, if they - maybe - want to do it now or later on or whenever, but right now they have no valid license for DTS at all. I would roughly guess Sonos Inc. started negotiations with DTS Inc. during the development of the PLAYBAR and the ‘big Sonos’ stopped the negotiation on a partner and/or licensee contract and affronted DTS Inc. by kicking DTS out of the PLAYBAR or maybe the full Sonos product range. Just in case my simple thoughts are quite close to the truth, I - as the affronted license and patents owner of DTS technologies - would decline to give Sonos a DTS license at all or at a minimum triple the price. Anyway, the Sonos customers are going to ‘pay the price’ for Sonos’ faulty decisions on DTS, in worth case by never ever getting properly licensed DTS on the current PLAYBAR or any other Sonos equipment. Bernd http://www.dts.com/professionals/licensing.aspx