can People stop complaining about DTS?


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Ken_Griffiths wrote:

Paulw123 wrote:

Not if the new speaker after June's announcement, has HDMI and therefore access to higher codecs limited by optical cables to current sonos products.


Rumour has it that the PlayBar will support HDMI 2.1 and Alexa/AirPlay-2, but there is perhaps still the licensing issues for some things, like DTS. So my guess is it will still just support the same codecs as the current PlayBar. We shall have to see in 4 weeks time.



If it's a new product I'm guessing DTS could be added and the license cost priced into the retail price. As it's a a new product only new sales would likely be affected by the license fee as there would be no previous sales.
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I use to rage on sonos for lack of dts and hdmi. I did not do any prior research. I already had a sonos speaker in every room, so it seemed natural for me to buy the playbar for living room. Apple-fanbois queue for the newest phone on release day, without any research, and the whine over no mini jack. Guess i was a bit of a sonos-fanboi, as i got the playbar as soon as i noticed it, without any research.

I spent more than 300€ on work-arounds for dts/hdmi for the playbar, but i never got the result i was looking for.

So after three years with the playbar i finaly sold my playbar+sub. No regrets!

So after i got my new soundbar, sub and wireless rears, it dawned on me - Sonos Connect (not amp)! Add a sonos connect to your new tv surround speaker system, and bam, you have the whole package: DTS, HDMI, Atmos, what ever, but it still acts like a speaker in the sonos eco system.

Looking back i realise i was never the right target audience for the playbar. The sonos 5.1 setup was my first attempt at getting some surround sound. Before that i had always used 2 stereo speakers to push sound from TV, so i never even thought about sound formats like DD or DTS were different, since everything works on stereo in stereo.

I got 90% of my money back after selling the 3 year old playbar + 2 year old sub, so i gave heos 5.1 a shot. Movies sound more emersive, and heos handles DD 5.1 better than the sonos. The heos app is a beta version, and the speakers are not as sexy as sonos (except the sub). For audiophiles i think heos might be a better way to go, but i am no audiophile.
The sonos connect is attached to my heos system, so the heos system is part of the sonos ecosystem. So when we want music/radio from the heos speakers, we go through the sonos app and select the sonos connect (called "living room").

If you want a comparison of heos 5.1 and sonos 5.1 go here:
https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/sonos-5-1-vs-heos-5-1-6808083

I think we started sonos almost 10 years with the connect (ZP90), and my wife never had a problem with playbar only outputting DD 5.1. I just hated that after ripping a 70 Gb movie file, which looked amazing on my 4k HDR screen, would only output stereo on my 5.1 sonos package.

Propper surround from amp or simulated 5.1 with a soundbar + sonos connect = win!

Cheers,
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jannabana69 wrote:

Not sure where to post but I need to chime in. I love this forum, but a question for all the complainers of DTS not being supported. Did you actually research before you purchased this very expensive equipment? I have read so many people whining “I’m going to return my Sonos” or I’m selling my gear” or “wahhhhhh I’m not buying Sonos unless they give me DTS”. I spent hours researching before I even went to the store to give it a listen. It very clear and in no way hidden that this equipment is geared towards streaming media and music. It clearly states that DTS is not supported. To be honest, I didn’t even know people still watch DVDs! Wait....are VCRs still around too?? People think that Sonos is not listening. I believe they are listening and their answer is NO. They have a very specific brand with one goal in mind. Add music easily throughout your whole home. I think the 5.1 is a bonus but it’s not their claim to fame. I have the 5.1 set up and a couple Play 5s and could not be happier with them. Movies AND Music sound great.
Please stop complaining. If the equipment is not exactly what you want, don’t buy it and please don’t whine that you would buy it “if”. Should I call Apple and tell them I’ll buy thousands of dollars of their brand if they “would simply integrate windows 10” to their interface? Ok, enough venting for 1 day. Phew, that t is felt good! Bring on the hateful comments, I can handle it.



So good for you, you have started a interesting debate. Here is why I am annoyed about lack of DTS support. I live in an area that does not have fibre broadband so I can’t stream 4K movies and programmes. DVD’s are virtually my only source of surround sound and UHD pictures. By the way, what do you do if Netflix/Amazon etc switches to DTS? Secondly, I did do some research before I parted with a grand plus. The Sonos Playbar site clearly states that it is compatible with anything you plug into it. Finally, if I had a clue what DTS and DD was I wouldn’t be trying to buy a plug in and play system. I know just enough about Sound however to realise that a wireless system will never match a (cheaper) separates system. The Sonos is a convenience workaround and lifestyle product.

I am a busy man who has a life and expect to get premium service from a premium company. I don’t have the time or inclination to troll support pages for weeks prior to making a purchase like this, life is too short. I am jealous of people who do have the time because I am now forced to do this research and it is absolutely the most tedious thing I have ever done. 😞
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Chris wrote:

I beleive the industry failed Sonos. Such as there was obviously a standard set at one point to use dd 5.1 via optical out from tv as a standard. That many tv manufacturers decided to skimp on and leave off.



So it was everybody else’s fault and only Sonos got it right? Unlikely.
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@djsgrant - If you live in UK you could look into SkyQ. Your slow broadband speed will not matter, as it downloads UHD catch-up content onto it's hardrive, could be overnight, then you could watch it when ever you choose.
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Thanks Paul. I have SkyQ and it is excellent. I doesn’t always show what I want to watch. I also may be old fashioned but I do like to collect the odd classic movie on DVD for keeps. I suppose my overall point is that the Sonos Playbar/base shouldn’t be for audiofiles who know their DTS from their elbow, it should just work. And for that amount of cash, £1700, it should work BETTER than anything else in this sector.

Paulw123 wrote:

@djsgrant - If you live in UK you could look into SkyQ. Your slow broadband speed will not matter, as it downloads UHD catch-up content onto it's hardrive, could be overnight, then you could watch it when ever you choose.

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I fully agree with you.
But people on here will just tell you didn't do enough research, and should of returned it, or sell it & get proper AVR with a connect.
The official line is that it works great with Netflix and Amazon prime etc
The only sonos move on that, is that the new beam will work with Atmos(skyQ has started Atmos content) & DD5.1plus, as the HDMI lead tells tv to downgrade them to DD5.1.
Not sure what happens if your tv was about before Atmos?
With 3 home theatre speakers & 3 music speakers, I can't see that sonos is "not that into home theatre"??
Maybe in a couple of years they might change their mind on DTS:X etc if they are still about....
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After having a general rant at Sonos Technical about DTS i received this reply "Sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction at our choice of Dolby Digital for the surround sound on our Sonos Home Theatre system. Maybe an upcoming product might provide the experience you are trying to achieve. Check out the Sonos Beam with HDMI-ARC connectivity here..."

Is this a hint?
djsgrant wrote:

After having a general rant at Sonos Technical about DTS i received this reply "Sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction at our choice of Dolby Digital for the surround sound on our Sonos Home Theatre system. Maybe an upcoming product might provide the experience you are trying to achieve. Check out the Sonos Beam with HDMI-ARC connectivity here..."

Is this a hint?



What makes you think "Sonos Technical" made this decision, and thus deserving of a "rant"?
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jgatie wrote:

djsgrant wrote:

After having a general rant at Sonos Technical about DTS i received this reply "Sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction at our choice of Dolby Digital for the surround sound on our Sonos Home Theatre system. Maybe an upcoming product might provide the experience you are trying to achieve. Check out the Sonos Beam with HDMI-ARC connectivity here..."

Is this a hint?



What makes you think "Sonos Technical" made this decision, and thus deserving of a "rant"?



Oh dear, pedantry taken to a whole new level. This is why I hate these forums, please refer my original post.

I don’t think my quote from Sonos is insignificant, uninteresting to the users as regards this subject nor is it rude to anyone. It may be a generalisation to say Sonos Technical instead of Sonos Design or the Sonos Cat. I will now go off and thrash myself with sticks as punishment. Great detracting from the point though...
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I think that is just sonos trying to get a beam sale from you.
Oh and I just remembered that Netflix is coming to SkyQ soon, so that might help you if everything is downloaded to the box.
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djsgrant wrote:

...Oh dear, pedantry taken to a whole new level. This is why I hate these forums ... Great detracting from the point though...



Do not take it personally, that poster makes a living out of detracting from the point in order to "back Sonos" to the hilt!
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TJRL wrote:

djsgrant wrote:

...Oh dear, pedantry taken to a whole new level. This is why I hate these forums ... Great detracting from the point though...



Do not take it personally, that poster makes a living out of detracting from the point in order to "back Sonos" to the hilt!



Oh dear. That is very sad
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I see Apple have announced that they are moving towards Dolby Atmos with their Apple TV this autumn/fall ... is it possible that Sonos will head in that direction too and simply skip DTS, DTS:X?
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Ken_Griffiths wrote:

I see Apple have announced that they are moving towards Dolby Atmos with their Apple TV this autumn/fall ... is it possible that Sonos will head in that direction too and simply skip DTS, DTS:X?



That's interesting. I am not sure if there is a home market for Atmos. Presumably people like Sonos because it cuts down on speakers, wires etc. To listen to Atmos properly i.e. not a sounder that kids on, that's another two speakers in the living room. Too many for me.
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djsgrant,

I would love to see Sonos produce a new centre front speaker to replace the PlayBar with the ability to add a Sub and four 'separate' surrounds.

To get 'virtual' Dolby Atmos, it would be nice if the surrounds were also all capable of 'upward firing' a separate channel and the whole room sound calibrated via trueplay tuning.

I’m not talking more devices than what you maybe want to see in a room, just that the surround speakers can be separated out from the centre and be able to fire separate audio channels upwards, aswell as outwards.

That’s what I would prefer to see and maybe bypass DTS altogether.
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I think this topic is frankly ridiculous.

Sonos has a lot of Home Cinema booths set up in retail stores worldwide, in which they advertise their expensive playbar-sub-two rears as a complete home cinema system. What they don't tell you is that if you buy one, you are severly restricting yourself in terms of content you can play on your system.

The core of the problem is not that dolby digital 5.1 does not sound good or immersive. It's that your Sonos system it is unable to play a lot of common audio sources that feed into a typical home cinema system.

For crying out loud more than 80% of Blu-rays have DTS audio tracks. If you have a 4k / HDR television, and you want to experience ultra HD bluray 4k content, which is vastly superior in terms of visual quality to what Netflix streams, unless you have a very expensive blu-ray player that transcodes, you will have either stereo or no sound.

This is also foregoing the possibility that streaming services will move to higher fidelity sound codecs such as DTS and DD TrueHD in the coming years (which they will). That would mean that unless you get a transcoding device, you and your Sonos home cinema system will be stuck in stereo.

If you are okay with getting stereo sound in 2018 from your $1600 Sonos Home Cinema system, be my guest. I'm not, which is why, like others, I'm trying to get my voice heard. We are locked in the ecosystem, switching costs are high, which is why Sonos is getting away with this kind of stuff.

I seriously do not get why you are complaining about people raising this issue. If it does not affect you, good for you. This issue is a big issue for alot of people though.

If you think Sonos is making the decision to not support modern audio codecs and connections out of practical, design and 'love for audio' considerations, you are kidding yourself. Sonos is gearing up for an IPO and has in the past year laid of plenty of employees. They are pursuing a fat bottom line on the short run. That is exactly why they are targeting the technically unsavvy affluent consumer, looking for a premium home cinema system.
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TellerNavynuts wrote:

I think this topic is frankly ridiculous.

Sonos has a lot of Home Cinema booths set up in retail stores worldwide, in which they advertise their expensive playbar-sub-two rears as a complete home cinema system. What they don't tell you is that if you buy one, you are severly restricting yourself in terms of content you can play on your system.

The core of the problem is not that dolby digital 5.1 does not sound good or immersive. It's that your Sonos system it is unable to play a lot of common audio sources that feed into a typical home cinema system.

For crying out loud more than 80% of Blu-rays have DTS audio tracks. If you have a 4k / HDR television, and you want to experience ultra HD bluray 4k content, which is vastly superior in terms of visual quality to what Netflix streams, unless you have a very expensive blu-ray player that transcodes, you will have either stereo or no sound.

This is also foregoing the possibility that streaming services will move to higher fidelity sound codecs such as DTS and DD TrueHD in the coming years (which they will). That would mean that unless you get a transcoding device, you and your Sonos home cinema system will be stuck in stereo.

If you are okay with getting stereo sound in 2018 from your $1600 Sonos Home Cinema system, be my guest. I'm not, which is why, like others, I'm trying to get my voice heard. We are locked in the ecosystem, switching costs are high, which is why Sonos is getting away with this kind of stuff.

I seriously do not get why you are complaining about people raising this issue. If it does not affect you, good for you. This issue is a big issue for alot of people though.

If you think Sonos is making the decision to not support modern audio codecs and connections out of practical, design and 'love for audio' considerations, you are kidding yourself. Sonos is gearing up for an IPO and has in the past year laid of plenty of employees. They are pursuing a fat bottom line on the short run. That is exactly why they are targeting the technically unsavvy affluent consumer, looking for a premium home cinema system.



Bravo, succinctly put.
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djsgrant wrote:

TellerNavynuts wrote:

I think this topic is frankly ridiculous.

Sonos has a lot of Home Cinema booths set up in retail stores worldwide, in which they advertise their expensive playbar-sub-two rears as a complete home cinema system. What they don't tell you is that if you buy one, you are severly restricting yourself in terms of content you can play on your system.

The core of the problem is not that dolby digital 5.1 does not sound good or immersive. It's that your Sonos system it is unable to play a lot of common audio sources that feed into a typical home cinema system.

For crying out loud more than 80% of Blu-rays have DTS audio tracks. If you have a 4k / HDR television, and you want to experience ultra HD bluray 4k content, which is vastly superior in terms of visual quality to what Netflix streams, unless you have a very expensive blu-ray player that transcodes, you will have either stereo or no sound.

This is also foregoing the possibility that streaming services will move to higher fidelity sound codecs such as DTS and DD TrueHD in the coming years (which they will). That would mean that unless you get a transcoding device, you and your Sonos home cinema system will be stuck in stereo.

If you are okay with getting stereo sound in 2018 from your $1600 Sonos Home Cinema system, be my guest. I'm not, which is why, like others, I'm trying to get my voice heard. We are locked in the ecosystem, switching costs are high, which is why Sonos is getting away with this kind of stuff.

I seriously do not get why you are complaining about people raising this issue. If it does not affect you, good for you. This issue is a big issue for alot of people though.

If you think Sonos is making the decision to not support modern audio codecs and connections out of practical, design and 'love for audio' considerations, you are kidding yourself. Sonos is gearing up for an IPO and has in the past year laid of plenty of employees. They are pursuing a fat bottom line on the short run. That is exactly why they are targeting the technically unsavvy affluent consumer, looking for a premium home cinema system.



Bravo, succinctly put.



What they said x100 ;)
I think the issue is around those that know how the tech works and those that don't. It's not unreasonable to think that a system that can be built and is sold as 5.1 will work with a blurry player and reproduce 5.1. I was happy enough to buy a new player that could convert dts to dd but it shouldn't be necessary. I'm not worried about any differences in sound quality or effects but Sonos sells itself as a simple to use system that means owners can plug and play as far as possible. They should pay the extra licensees fee which I understand is the issue with not supporting dts? and support their customers better.
To the starter of this thread, I could not disagree with you more.

I would buy SONOS (I nearly did because their UI is good) if it had at least basic DTS support, as almost all of my Blurays are DTS! These DTS Licenses in bulk purchases to OEMs are not expensive and I've seen this daft argument from manufacturers like AUDIOLAB that did the 8000AP and 8200AP before...

...guess what, because they refuse to implement the basics of decoding high-def formats natively (instead rely on your Player to convert to LPCM for them so they don't have to pay the puny License fee) they have discontinued their line of AVP due to nobody buying their corner-cutting barebones hardware to maximise profits.
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ti33er wrote:

To the starter of this thread, I could not disagree with you more.



How true!
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For me personally, the Apple TV 4K is the perfect device in combination with Sonos as it can convert any audio codec into a Sonos compatible multichannel format (assuming the source has multichannel of course). I'm using the "Infuse" app which is capable of playing any movies/content (up to 4K HDR) with DTS HD/Dolby+ sound, the AppleTV will convert it on the fly in AC3 5.1 (if you change the audio settings once). Of course it also works with Dolby Digital Plus from the Netflix app.

Another advantage of the Apple TV is the built-in AirPlay 2 support so the "old" Playbar even profits more. There are HDMI switches that support 4K (@60Hz), HDR, ARC, CEC and have a built-in optical audio output (SPDIF) so when using one of these you can even use the Apple TV on the Playbar without turning on the TV (e.g. for music/AirPlay 2), I'm using a Vorke HD41PRO.

Concerning BluRay: are there really BluRays that have exclusive DTS audio? I've never seen one, all my BluRays have a backward compatible Dolby 5.1 audio track. But even if there are such BluRays one has to buy a player that can convert it on the fly (Stereo is not an option for me). My PlayStation 4 does it for example as well as some Samsung players.

Long story short: I was fully aware that Sonos can only handle AC3 5.1 before I bought all my equipment (many years ago) and I'm quite happy that there are possibilities to have at least 5.1 sound in any condition (if the source supports it of course). I bought the Apple TV 4 for 140€ and (for me) it's worth every penny - also quite cheap in relationship to Sonos speakers. It even supports Dolby Vision and therefore is the perfect companion for my LG OLED TV (but this has nothing to do with Sonos). Not to mention all the available apps (even the german SkyQ) nor the HomeKit Hub functionality.
In order to get a DD 5.1 stream from all my films, I've resorted to using KODI installed on an Amazon Fire TV box, with KODI set to transcode all non DD films to DD. For my 4K films I have to use the built in video / photo player in my LG OLED55B7 in order to correctly process the HDR signal. For 4K films with DTS MA, I've had to use EAC3To to extract the DTS-HD soundtrack, create a DD 5.1 track from it, then remux the film to include the DD5.1 track so I can select this from the LG player. Complete ball ache, but gets my round the ridiculous Sonos processing limitations as they stand.
Just to add, most DD 5.1 soundtracks are mixed at 448 or 640kb/s, where as a DTS core soundtrack will be closer to 1.5Mb/s. DTS Core will automatically be extracted from a DTS MA soundtrack by most TV players if DTS MA is not acceptable and will be passed through an Optical connection perfectly fine at this bitrate. So by Sonos restricting their equipment to DD 5.1 signals only, we are effectively being forced to listen to inferior sound quality from our movie collections for the sake of the cost of a DTS decoder license.

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