Android and Trueplay


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I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.


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I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.

 

I think that having sold almost 30 million units, and expecting to double their revenue by 2024 (mostly at the cost of Android users), Sonos could afford to buy AT LEAST phones from the biggest brands in the Android market, and test them in order to get to know their microphone frequencies response, and make Trueplay available for those. The idea of borrowing an iPhone from a friend is just ridiculous...

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Sonos would have to buy one of every model and buy another if any changes were made to the microphone circuitry.

The USB attached mike is a much more simpler fix.

Sonos would have to buy one of every model and buy another if any changes were made to the microphone circuitry.

The USB attached mike is a much more simpler fix.

Just as they've probably been doing all these years for every iPhone/iPad that Apple launched.

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

 

I would not be surprised if a similar situation exists on the Apple side as well now.  Still easier to manage on Apple side than all the android phone makers, but perhaps not as ideal as Sonos originally hoped.

I would be in favor of a separate tuning device as well.

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

 

I would not be surprised if a similar situation exists on the Apple side as well now.  Still easier to manage on Apple side than all the android phone makers, but perhaps not as ideal as Sonos originally hoped.

I would be in favor of a separate tuning device as well.

It’s a pity the mic in the Sonos Roam couldn’t do this I think, but there are perhaps some privacy issues preventing it.

It’s a pity the mic in the Sonos Roam couldn’t do this I think, but there are perhaps some privacy issues preventing it.

 

Don’t know.  But, dreaming for a moment, it could be that Sonos is actually planning for a trueplay tuning device and doesn’t want to kill that market?  Just a random thought, but what if Sonos could make a portable mic/tuning device that you can place at the spot in the room where you want the primary focus to be, and your speakers would auto tune the timing and such to that space.  Could be very useful for larger spaces with multiple listen areas?  Possible could even be used with amp+passive speakers, for timing issues?   That could be useful to Apple users as well?  I am no expert at tuning though, so that could be completely wrong.

I don’t know, Danny. Given the retirement of all non-music hardware (dock, controllers) Sonos has made, I wonder if that may have made them skittish. Although you could argue that such a device is a more natural extension of the sound process. Given that I happen to have multiple iOS devices that all function for this purpose, it’s not been something I’ve been overly worried about, but I do understand the desire from others. 

I don’t know, Danny. Given the retirement of all non-music hardware (dock, controllers) Sonos has made, I wonder if that may have made them skittish. Although you could argue that such a device is a more natural extension of the sound process. Given that I happen to have multiple iOS devices that all function for this purpose, it’s not been something I’ve been overly worried about, but I do understand the desire from others. 

 

That’s a good point.  And you could argue that the dock and controllers failed because technology moved on, making them unpopular in the market.  For me personally, the need to get a controller actually kept me out of Sonos for many years.  I could handle ~$400 for a way to play all the MP3s, stored on my computer in the office, in my living room.  Adding $400 for a controller was too much.  The free Sonos app was what got me to pull the trigger. That’s not a knock on those who loved the controller, just saying that it narrowed the market for Sonos.  And obviously, the dock became much less useful when Apple changed their port around and Sonos gained the ability to stream services directly.

It’s possible that a $150 mic (or whatever it costs) could act as a deterrent to sales, if android users feel like they have to have it on top of the cost of a speaker.  And it’s possible that a better technology could come around to replace it.  Don’t know.

Also wondering if such a device could be a good tool for professional installers.

 

I’d have to say the chances of a mic would be higher if I were the Product person, as there is technically no ‘software’ that would be on the mic that could ever potentially run out of memory, I would think all of the software would be on the speakers. 

Not sure the price point of such a device makes a ton of sense, though. It would be, I suspect, a low cost item to manufacture, but all the ancillary costs might drive it up. But hard to get to $150 in my mind. However, I concur with your potential stumbling block for Android users. 

It kind of makes me wish they’d never released it for iOS in the first place, or messaged it better. It’s just not a requirement to have good sounding speakers. It can help in some situations, but so many people think it should be the ‘silver bullet’ that must be done or else they’re missing out on something ‘special’. 
 

 

I would think all of the software would be on the speakers. 

Actually all the heavy processing for the Trueplay tuning is carried out on the iDevice. The filters are then uploaded to the speakers.

https://tech-blog.sonos.com/posts/trueplay-spectral-correction/

Scroll down to the section headed “Trueplay can help!”

Interesting. That certainly increases the complexity of the system function , to appropriately implement for Android. Although if they were to do something akin to pulling the processing back to the system, rather than the controller device itself, they might be able to drop the iOS specific software, and maintain a single process… it’s fun to speculate about something that will most likely never occur, since it’s hard to be ‘wrong’. 

And thank you for the link. I was struck, particularly, while reading through it, with this paragraph, which perhaps explains why speakers with mics are not potentially the best devices for dealing with the entire system, rather than their individual speaker. 

A single microphone-position measurement will scramble the problems caused by the speaker location with the problems associated with that specific measurement location. That’s why corrections are best made based on measurements taken in many places in the room, and why the graph above shows room-averaged measurements.

Further proof that just searching on Sonos’ own site has substantial benefits ;)

I would think all of the software would be on the speakers. 

Actually all the heavy processing for the Trueplay tuning is carried out on the iDevice. The filters are then uploaded to the speakers.

https://tech-blog.sonos.com/posts/trueplay-spectral-correction/

Scroll down to the section headed “Trueplay can help!”

 

Great article.  I understand the aspect that a single point measurement, while increasing audio quality at the measurement location, can actually make it sound worse every where else.  I still think that it could be useful to be useful for the cases where you wish to optimize for a specific location, such as a theatre room or similar.  Or, in a room where there are multiple seating areas, no so much to deal with volume issues, but with timing issues, so left and right channel audio reaches the mic location at the same time.

But, I suspect I don’t understand this as well as I think do...and I don’t think I understand it all that well already.

 

While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile  (whatever that means, likely $) market. 

I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better. 

It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market. 

While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile  (whatever that means, likely $) market. 

I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better. 

It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market. 

 

Understood, I just seeing if there were ways that a microphone device could appeal to more than just the android side of the market.

I’m also somewhat sensitive to the whole “I read about it in the forums, it must be happening” phenomenon…. :) 

I don’t mind speculation, I just worry when neophytes don’t understand that it’s merely thought, and not a promise that Sonos is doing something. 

Honestly the Sonos Arc will be my first and last Sonos device unless they change this stance and others.  As others have stated nothing on the Sonos Arc main page mentions TruePlay is iOS only. In my opinion this is very deceptive in their marketing. From the Sonos Arc main page below.

“Tuned to perfection

Trueplay tuning technology optimizes the sound for the unique acoustics of the room where Arc is placed, calibrating the height channels for precise localization.”

The omission of DTS, which I did know going into buying the Arc, is just dumb, charge extra for a DTS model.  A lot of people are going out and buying a HDFury Arcana to solve LipSync issues because of a lack of an HDMI input on the device. Another poor design decision.  If it wasn’t for the rave reviews of the Arc on sound quality I would have passed.

I would gladly buy an approved or official Sonos mic to plug into my android device to run tune my Arc. I work for a Vendor myself and nothing pisses customers off more than a nonchalant answer like borrow a friends iPhone.  Borrowing an iPhone is not easy for me, especially in COVID days, almost all my friends and family use Android. 

Lastly if I decide to move my device to another TV or rearrange my room I need to inconvenience someone else so I can tune my Sonos is absurd.  

I thought when I bought the Arc it was going to be the beginning of a larger Sonos rollout in my house but sadly I will be looking for alternatives.

 

Ok but other products like bose provides all of their customers a way to tune their system because it's common sense that not everyone give 1 crap about ios devices 

I think that having sold almost 30 million units, and expecting to double their revenue by 2024 (mostly at the cost of Android users), Sonos could afford to buy AT LEAST phones from the biggest brands in the Android market, and test them in order to get to know their microphone frequencies response, and make Trueplay available for those. The idea of borrowing an iPhone from a friend is just ridiculous...

 

Well this Android user won't be buying Sonos again.

Last speakers I bought were the Google nest speakers and I am a lot happier with them than my Sonos set. They sound just as good and integrate with my android and my Chromecast etc.

I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.

I guess if you are bought into the whole apple ecosystem Sonos would be a better choice. But a user like myself using lots of Google home products and with an android phone, the choice to steer away from Sonos in future is obvious.

I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.

 

Here is how you turn off trueplay.  No need to do a factory reset.

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4919?language=en_US

Well this is disappointing.  I literally don't know anyone who has an iPhone device.  Was going to get the arc soundbar, but will do some searching for alternatives instead...

Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

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Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

Indeed. I have ten Sonos devices and many iOS devices but have never bothered to even try Trueplay. It all sounds great to me.

Being an Android only household I was infuriated with Sonos that after spending several thousands with them, that this basic optimisation software isn't available to me. To then suggest that I ‘borrow an Apple device from a friend'... Really?

So, I borrow an iPad from a friend. Only then discovered that the app wasn't supported by his older iPad. Grrrr. Today I had delivered a new iPad 9th Generation with iOS 15...aaaaannd…computer says no. Sonos don't support new ipads, or old. So I borrowed another iPad, this time the 8th generation. And guess what? It's NOT SUPPORTED either! Aghhhh.

Seriously, Sonos…. customer feedback, pull your thumbs out of your backsides and include Android support and the latest Apple products as soon as possible. You've got more that enough money, especially after the recent price hikes.

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