What has happened to the Sonos' software quality?

Though I’d agree the new Sonos app roll out was a disaster the problems you mention are not overall problems. More likely than not they are related to you set up - though the new app and software seem more sensitive to problems than the old.

Can you tell us about your set up?

Sure, I’ll play along. 

• 3 x One
• 1 x One SL
• 1 x Move
• 1 x Era 300
• 1 x Port connected to a Yamaha RX-A2A AVENTAGE receiver (Line In)
• 1 x Play:1 not currently connected

All the Sonos are set to update firmware automagically and all are running the latest firmware. The receiver doesn’t do automagically, but it too is running the latest firmware. 

Receiver also has 2 x Yamaha WX-021 MusicCast 20 speakers attached wirelessly as rear surround speakers, front channels are wired. Streaming is from a FireTV Cube also connected via HDMI to the receiver.

Since it seems relevant:

• Asus ROG ASUS - GT-AXE11000 router at the center of my house
• 3 x Asus RX series mesh routers at the edges
• NETGEAR Nighthawk CM1200 cable modem connected to the ROG router

The Asus routers have a firmware update waiting but are usually on the latest. The cable modem, :shrug: because Cox is terrible and controls those. Internet speeds are generally 450 down/115 up and ~12ms latency on WiFi. I don’t have _anything_ wired directly to the modem or router that I could measure speeds with. There are currently 48 devices attached to the WiFi network, but that number could fluctuate a bit.

There’s a personal weather station on the roof that uses it’s own protocol (I do not know what, it may be Zigbee or similar) to communicate with a base unit indoors.

What has changed recently? The Era 300 replaced the Play:1 in the same location.

What happened yesterday? I was watching the Japanese F1GP. When I watch F1, I set the receiver to Party Mode and set the Era 300 to Line In from the Port so I can hear the commentary even when I’m not in front of the TV. The connection was spotty, frequently dropping out for short periods, and sometimes completely for 10 or more seconds at a time. I noticed the same a few weeks back during the Australian F1GP when I also had the Move in a group with the Era 300, as well as during the Chinese F1GP weekend with just the Era 300. The thing is, this never happened last year when the Play:1 was in that spot. The Line In connection was flawless no matter what was in the group before the Era 300 arrived. 

After watching the GP, I tried to group the Era 300 with the 3 Ones to play some music via Spotify, like I do every single evening. No go. I tried both the iPhone app as well as the Mac desktop app for over an hour. While the music was playing perfectly through the Era 300, no dropouts, it just wouldn’t create a group with the Ones. I rebooted all 3 Ones (unplug, wait, plug back in) but that did not help (I did n ot reboot the Era 300). Thing is, this is something that seems to have been getting worse even before the Era 300 arrived and is becoming increasingly frustrating. 

That’s when I decided to come and sign up here and create a little rant, with all the stupidity around the unique username that that involved. 

Funny thing is that right after I posted the opening message in this thread, I tried one more time to create the group, and it just worked. Like immediately. 

So, do you think you can help diagnose the issues I’m seeing?

Di you have the ROG in front of or behind the Netgear modem?

I see why you’re asking, but:

Cox Cable → Netgear Nighthawk → 1.5ft CAT8 → Asus ROG

So, no, the cable modem isn’t actually in the mix here. I included it for completeness, but I also wasn’t experiencing any other interwebs related issues at the time.

Did something change with how the Sonos speakers establish their own network between ye olde Play:1 and the Era series?

Yeah Era speakers don’t have Sonos net. 

Couple of things (while I watch Practice 1 and then Practice 2 recordings). First, the ‘density’ of a TV line in tends to be greater than a standard music stream, therefore your speakers could be more sensitive to wifi interference . I’d be interested if you, when getting this breakup, changed to the Port’s line in, but it’s hard to figure out how to match ‘density’, as there is no number to look at. 

Second, to answer your specific question as best we in the public can, the ‘newer’ electronics in the Era 100 don’t have the ability that the PLAY:1 had to connect to the SonosNet signal. I have no expectation that would be your issue, but I have no reference on the sensitivity of both the antennas and the chips to process the signal. My experience, all I can rely on, is there is no difference at all. But certainly they are newer devices in the Era 100s, trying to match the chips in the PLAY:1s would likely be more expensive, given how old and out of date they would be. 

My outside suspicion is you’re dealing with some wifi interference , but to get someone to look at hard data, you’d need to submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and call Sonos Support to discuss it. Only Sonos employees can see that hard data, those of us in the public, including yourself, aren’t allowed to see that data. I suspect it is Sonos’ own concern of the legal concern that they could be exposed to consequences of GDPR that keeps them from even allowing you to look at your own data. But I’ve got ‘feelings’ about legal departments ;)

You didn’t mention, but 2.4 GHz is better than 5Ghz for distance and penetration. 5 GHz tends to be faster, but for audio transmission, 2.4 GHz seems to be better for Sonos. 

Ok, that’s interesting. 

(Nice. I iust watched them myself)

Again, interesting, given that the Port Line In drop-outs started when I replaced the Play:1 with the Era 300. 

I almost certainly have Wi-Fi interference: that’s the reason I mentioned the weather station, for example. Given this is a racing weekend, I will be using the Line In again, I’ll be sure to pull and submit a diagnostic. 

Is there an option to have the speakers use the one or the other? If so, I’m not aware of it, but I’ll go poke at the app.

Also, none of the 👆explains the grouping issue.

It’s the device OS and app. It’s flaky af. 

Grouping requires the signal from the receiver to be sent from the original device (your Port) to another speaker (either the PLAY:1 or your Era 300).

As far as I’m aware, there is no way to define what band is in use by the Sonos, using the Sonos software. You should make sure your router is allowing both. Some people seem to turn off 2.4 GHz, because they assume 5Ghz is better. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. 

I suspect the data in that diagnostic will reveal something…and it might be proof that I’m barking up the wrong tree. I’ll be interested to hear from you what you find out. 

And outside interference is definitely a thing. I had a new neighbor move in next door, when I lived in Texas, and their router setup stomped all over my Sonos setup. Took a couple of days to figure out. It would be lovely if networks existed in a bubble, with no outside interference, it is unfortunate that they don’t, and can be influenced by even solar flares, at times. We always tend to think of them as ‘my network’, and rarely as RF affected by outside and inside influences. 

I didn’t end up doing a diagnostic because I don’t actually have a case open with support.

I did move the Port out of the cabinet to on top … which made no difference. For my next trick I will be:

1. Hardwiring the Port to the ROG
2. Moving one of my mesh routers closer to the Era 300

I did a bit more reading this weekend and it seems the Move doesn’t have SonosNet either. I don’t recall using the Move with the Port last year, so I’ll need to experiment with that some more too.

Running a diagnostic is the recommended first step to setup a case and later call Sonos Tech Support to discuss the results.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but that’s not what the app says:

Anyway, I connected the Port to the ROG with a CAT8 Ethernet cable this weekend, and it did indeed improve the situation. There were still some occasional very short dropouts, but not so bad as to make me hate my life choices. I also did not have issues adding the Era 300 back to the group with the Ones afterwards.

It still frustrates me that I had to change the setup in this way after replacing the Play:1 with a substantially newer, more expensive and theoretically more capable device. And the app still sucks.

The latest hell is that: 

1. The volume on all of my speakers seems to be very low. Like 25-30 used to be a good volume, now I need to set the speakers 50+ to get the same level
2. Random speakers that have never before had an issue are randomly dropping for a few seconds at a time. 

Does your mesh wifi system “channel hop” or is it locked to a single channel?

Have you spoken to Sonos support and submitted a diagnostics report yet? What did they say? 

Well Sonos continues to do a stellar job...at f'ing up.  Forced update today and of course it wasn't successful.   Amateur hour smh

Tonight one of my Sonot One speakers just … disappeared. It’s not visible in the desktop or mobile app. It was the leader of the group and so all the other speakers stopped playing, BUT it’s still playing music from Spotify. Fantastic. 

What has Sonos support advised?

Also: is are you running the latest version of the app? A number of post on these forums report more reliable performance with groups, less dropouts, faster response time. 

I'll whine. Per Sonos, I updated my software this morning.  6 of of my 13 zones now appear in the  app.  Done the reboot (why do I need to reboot my system on a Sonos suggested upgrade).  Reloaded the S2 app - which is still a bit wonky.  I know after some period of time the other zones will start to appear.  Or at least have in the past,  but I purchased 13 zones (amps, beams, play 1s,  move 2 because Sonos used to be plug and play - and just work.

ive not yet submitted a diagnostic for this last issue because:  

I don't have time to play Sonos 101 with Sonos support.

I've found that Sonos support is generally an oxymoron.

very frustrating. 

Do you mean speakers, rather than Zones? 13 zones would be quite complicated.

“Done the reboot (why do I need to reboot my system on a Sonos suggested upgrade).”

You don’t. Where does it tell you that you need to do that?

(Do you have both the app and the system updated. One without the other will cause issues.)

You might try something that used to be suggested a lot more often in the past but seems to be impacting folks less with the new App and firmware.

Assign all Sonos a static/reserved IP Address using your router's DHCP settings page. Power down all Sonos. Reboot router and Controller, then power up your Sonos.

My system like yours was about unusable after updates or power failures, setting the addresses ended that and the full set is now available without the wait for the addressing to sort out. So far nobody has been able to find and post just what is going wrong, just that this avoids it.

Most frustrating to an old retired IT guy who hates mystery cures.