Since Monday my Sonos system no longer works

if it helps, here are the info for one of my ZP120 device.

If I connect one of my ZP120 directly to my Internet box with a cable and not to my router, the problem persists (connecting/disconnecting in a loop).

So the problem does not seem to be related to the router (or its configuration) at all.

I updated the iOS app to 80.01.10 and my devices still keep connecting and disconnecting.

Looks like there is no new controller firmware available.

Please let me know that you are aware of this issue and are working on a fix.

from your-feedback-on-the-new-sonos-app :

Threads that describe issues such as missing rooms and app crashes (those that are not just feedback, in other words) will be answered, as will threads not relating to the new app in anyway, but these will take a bit longer than normal.

2 weeks later, i still believe !

Updated to 80.02.04 and the associated firmware and the problem is the same.

hate that.

by the way, the firmware update process was as as bad as the new app is : I had to perform the updates so many times to finally get all my devices up to date.

I had a lot of presumably different network errors : 1005, 1000)

These are very old devices.  My system was a mix of old and new.  My old connect amps became more and more unreliable, and firmware updates were extremely problematic.  The system as a whole just got more and more stable as I swapped out of the the connect amps for newer amps.

not what you want to hear, I’m sure but these are software driven devices, and I’m sure nobody would be using computers or smart phones of a similar age to the connect amps.  Subs it is time to consider an upgrade. 

They can stop improving and maintaining them as much as they want.

but I don’t agree that they should make them stop working at all with no possibility to roll back to a previous working firmware.

i would understand that, for instance Spotify would stop supporting old Sonos protocols.

but there are no reason for local features to not work anymore (like asking a device to play an audio file located in my house)

It’s up to you.   I can’t remember the number of times that I kept downloading more and more firmware upgrades to old IPhones and iPads that made them more and more unresponsive, slower and harder to use.  Apple kept pushing firmware that the old hardware wasn’t really capable of running.  Sonos have done their best to keep these 10yr+ plus devices working.   They have very limited memory and in some cases this is failing.  If you keep downloading the firmware updates at some point it is going to stop working reliably.  I’m not telling you to upgrade, I’m just suggesting you be realistic about what you can expect such old hardware to do.  I would take a guess that the phone you are using to control it is no more than 2-3 old.  That should tell you what you need to know about the old Connect:Amps. 

I’m a software developer and I work on iOS apps since Apple launched the App Store.

I still have an old iPhone 4s that powers on and runs correctly.

(of course I currently have a iPhone 12 Pro since I personally wanted to have a newer model, because of all the improvements)

The apps I made and sold at that time still works without any issues on this more than 12 years old device.

The most recent versions of my apps, that supports newer devices and add more features, cannot be installed on these older devices.

BUT, the older app versions, (and associated features, that the users bought the app for) are still working correctly.

If Sonos break things on purpose this is called planned obsolescence which is bad in every points (for the user)

If you are happy changing a device for a new one when you don’t need new features/design then good for you.

Indeed I an not happy with that and I hope this problem is just one of the many bugs of their new app version (and that it is not planned obsolescence).

A difficulty at the moment is identifying what is an actual fault that was always going to happen vs an issue with the poor handling of the new app/firmware rollout.

Your symptoms remind of when my first ZP90 and one of my ZP100s failed. Both succumbed to bad flash chips a couple of years out of warranty. Both appeared to work fine, no error lights, but over time they would intermittently fail firmware updates, take a long time to boot, randomly stop responding until rebooted.

Once keeping an eye on it, the errors became every alternate firmware update. As I understood it, at the time Sonos had 2 firmware locations and the update would write to the one not booted and then boot into it following a restart. This was reinforced as in the ZP90 it was possible to get access to the running system and errors would occur reading files when poking around the file system. That area of the flash chip had started failing and over time eventually reached the point it couldn’t boot from it and firmware updates didn’t complete. The behaviour leading up to it initially appeared as random issues until it was bad enough to cause failure.

Unfortunately as devices get older individual components degrade and fail, which can manifest in odd failures. PSU components, solder joints, logic chips.

I think it is less likely that the firmware or app has caused the issue and it is more likely an underlying hardware fault that is the cause. The demands on the device from software is unlikely to have changed significantly and as an appliance, there shouldn’t be a build up of user data that phones and similar devices have to handle.

Sonos have been through an end of life situation with hardware, in the very badly managed S1/S2 split. If they wanted to end of life hardware then they would hopefully do a similar S2/S3 split.

For criticism I would aim at Sonos, I wouldn’t list hardware obsolescence via software bringing devices to it’s knees as one of them.

Thank you,

I would tend to think that the problem is related to the new app/firmware (and not specifically a hardware problem), because of all my 9 ZP120s, none of them are working properly anymore.

Last month, before the new 80 app version and associated firmware, they were all working fine (I never noticed any strange problems).

Ah, sorry I’d missed the word some in your first post.

For 9 of them to be behaving the same way after the update, I agree it sounds like there is something not right in the firmware. Audio decoding hasn’t been a cpu heavy task for a very long time, so new firmware shouldn’t have such a dramatic effect. The app and cloud services do all the heavy lifting not the devices.

As these are closed system mains powered appliances not a general purpose device end users can fill with stuff there is no excuse for Sonos not to test the firmware operates correctly across all the hardware platforms they are releasing the firmware to. The same boards and hardware platform will be use across multiple products.

It used to be possible to take a reasonable guess at the core device firmware software stack from the open source licenses list, but I haven’t seen one published for ages. 😔

Sonos a con artist firm I want my money back app fixed or replacement hardware FOC!!!!!  Intransigent company!!!!

Installed update 80.03.06.

Problem persists (logic, since there is no apparent associated firmware update).

One month later and still no response to this issue.

Sonos communicates (somehow) about missing features, but never acknowledges that some units would stop working.

One day later, it seems that there are some improvements.

Sonos might have the control to fix things server side, even if I have removed automatic updates on my controllers.

I successfully managed to listen to several Spotify songs in a row without interruption, and I don’t see any apparent disconnection anymore.

I also managed to play local files.

I would have been nice to get some feedback from sonos, and I can just hope that this will remain as it is.

I'm lost ...

I did the 80.03.07 update on the iPhone and the associated firmware update.

The disconnections are back, can no longer play local files.

Are there any developers who know what they are doing ? or have all the competent ones already left the company ?

Disconnections are often an indication of a local network issue, where the router is handing out bad IP addresses to the Sonos, when they request a new IP as part of the soft reboot process which is the firmware update.

Try unplugging all your a Sonos from power, then reboot your router. Give the router a couple of minutes to reload everything, then plug your Sonos back in to power. Give the Sonos a couple of minutes to reboot as well, and reconnect to your router. Then test.

If this doesn’t work, I’d recommend that you submit a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and call Sonos Support to discuss it.

There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.

When you speak directly to the phone folks, they have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your network and Sonos system.

Thanks for the tips.
I'll give it another try, but :
More than a month ago (right after the 80.xx update), I called support about these new problems that suddenly appeared on all 9 of my Sonos devices.
Everything was working fine before the update.
We basically did everything you said and, probably because they were out of solutions, they told me to contact my router manufacturer (D-Link) about this problem.
Everything was working fine before the update and no router or configuration was changed.
They also said they could not use the diagnostic information I sent: their system could not read it.
When I told the assistant again that everything worked just before the 80.xx update and that it could not be a problem in my router, he hung up...

A few days later, just to be sure, I connected a sonos device directly to my Internet box (without using the router) and the problem was the same.

Unfortunately, there is never a guaranty when trying to diagnose an issue on a text forum, there just never is enough hard data to look at to do a more accurate interpretation. And certainly, we in the community can’t diagnose issues within the software, unless there is an admission from Sonos, which rarely happens. But at the least, I am a fan of providing Sonos (and frankly, any software company) hard details so that the issue can be ‘seen’ by those who are affecting a ‘fix’.

The fact that you couldn’t send a diagnostic at the time is troubling. I’m wondering if something has changed in the many releases over the last six weeks that may have changed that. 

My suggestion of a network reset will fix probably 80% of issues like yours, but not 100%, which is why I try to suggest the second route.

As in many cases, I suspect that customer service reps are variable in how well they’ve understood the training. Some will ‘get it’, some will work from scripts, and while that will help the vast majority of calls they receive, it won’t resolve your issue. Every time (three, if memory serves, but I’ve been a customer for a long time) that I needed to call in, I ended up with someone who understood, but your experience may be different. I’d suggest some persistence, rather than giving up after one attempt. The value of music in your home is too much to give up too easily. 

For what it’s worth, connecting a Sonos device to your router directly has zero impact on any potential duplicate IP addresses, it just changes the method by which they’re attempted to be accessed. 

Hopefully, your situation will get better. 

Thank you.

Yes, I will contact support again at some point when they are easier to reach (with all the various problems from the 80.xxx update, it seems to be difficult to get them on the phone without a long wait).

For now, I have to say that I'm tired of having to spend several hours tweaking here and there to try to isolate the problem with every update, when I'm 99% sure the problem is related to the 80.xx update, and could be solved by a fix from them.
The fact that it worked for a few days just before I updated to 80.03.07 (and the associated firmware upgrade) is also very frustrating and strange. 

Sonos communication is really bad, for example they said they would respond to any thread talking about real problems with the update (not missing features) and they never did here.

A simple acknowledgement like "ok, there's a problem with this update, we'll fix it in a month or two" would be fine.

FYI, one of the tests I did was to not rely on DHCP and set a static IP address from my Internet box to each device: same problem with disconnections/reconnections.