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My great Vinyl dilemma: the line in source level Bug and sonos lack of response

  • 6 December 2019
  • 83 replies
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83 replies

T
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I am in Florida. No idea if location useful here, admitted

T
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So kumar, you selected 8, then 9, then back up 2 screens or close app and reopen? 
bug: reopens on 10

no bug: reopens on 9

T
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 Think that’s right

T
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So...I’d hoped for a more robust response from those seeing this.  can anyone else out there comment about this bug or no on their sonos devices?  I do appreciate any new responses, thanks!

ratty

I’d hoped for a more robust response from those seeing this. 

 

Ryan already said “It is still being investigated and worked on”. I’m not sure what else he can add.

This surely has to qualify as a ‘First World problem’. You can adjust the Line-In sensitivity. Any digitisation and scaling errors resulting from a sub-optimal sensitivity have to pale into insignificance compared to the noise and distortion introduced by vinyl playback from the turntable in the first place.

Chill. Sip a glass of wine. 

T
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Yes, personal email with Robert C contradicts what I was told previously. Now I am told the source level is adjusted in analog. 
think I’ll take your advice Ratty. Your audio verbiage was eloquently succinct. Not being sarcastic. I promise. I enjoyed reading it. we’ll put. 
but… the thrust of my thread is STILL that I want to hear from others that this little glitch reproduces on their devices or not. 
I still want to hear from more, as testing it is exceedingly easy and quick. 
again, thanks to all!
 

T
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Oh, the tt has been cartridge upgraded, optimally aligned (Baerwald), optimally anti skate set. It does sound great, and with well conditioned albums, there’s scant little distortion. The at vm540ml is a great cart for the money. Absolutely obliterates inner groove distortion. 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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The way I understand it, line-in level addresses the line in sensitivity, and overall gain applied to the signal received from the line-in device. And regarding your question, this is happening on the analog line before it gets converted to a digital signal as far as I know.

The line level is important because at some levels the audio signal may be too faint for the line input to even hear it. However, if you increase sensitivity and apply to much gain to a signal, it may cause it to be too loud and get distorted if the line signal is much stronger. Now this shouldn’t be extremely apparent between what we call line-in level 9 (0.8V) and line-in level 10 (0.6V), but it may be just enough distortion on the audio line to cause issues.

The issue at hand it pretty straightforward, when setting the source level to level 9, the app changes the level to 10 when you return to settings. When setting source level to level 10, the app reverts the line level back to the previous setting when you return to settings. They’re working on it currently.

Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
T
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Thanks Ryan so much for clarification here. I was initially told it was digital domain, but am hearing clearly today it’s analog. Sorry to jgatie, who was right all along. 

T
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I still feel however the suboptimal sensitivity of 8 vs 9 is an audible difference. When it’s fixed and I get 9 back, I’ll seriously give an honest listen  

K

Now this shouldn’t be extremely apparent between what we call line-in level 9 (0.8V) and line-in level 10 (0.6V), but it may be just enough distortion on the audio line to cause issues.

 

That is very useful Ryan, thanks; can you find out and let us know what line in level at 1 is? Just curious.

I have to say that 0.6V isn't all that high; I had a Quad preamp that provide a range of input sensitivities where the highest sensitivity option went down to 0.1. I doubt that  0.6V at 10 will cause input signal clipping and bears out why I don't hear any distortion at 10 on my Connect Amps/Connects.

My experience also suggests that any speaker sound level differences between 8, 9 and 10 are not large and there is enough left in the volume sliders of the Sonos kit to compensate for these; to me the advantage of 10 is it leaves levels closer to those obtained from the NAS or the net for a given slider position.

ratty

I seem to recall the lowest sensitivity, at level 1, corresponds to 2V. There used to be a FAQ on this, but it’s been pulled.

I’ll bow to Ryan’s wisdom but if the front-end scaling is analog it would surprise me as it would surely make more sense to go ADC to 24 or 32bit and then scale digitally to align with 16bit. The Port might do it differently to, say, the ZP80.

 

The at vm540ml is a great cart for the money. Absolutely obliterates inner groove distortion. 

“Mitigates” maybe. “Obliterates” is challenged by the laws of physics, given the linear resolution and tracking geometry issues inherent in the medium.

K

 

 

Absolutely obliterates inner groove distortion. 

 

Lol. I have absolutely no clue what that bit means. I can understand a cartridge obliterating inner grooves:-).

ratty

Lol. I have absolutely no clue what that bit means. I can understand a cartridge obliterating inner grooves:-).

Try this:

https://www.yoursoundmatters.com/vinyl-record-inner-groove-distortion-simple-explanation/

K

Got it, thanks. Another reason why vinyl has fundamental issues hindering performance/sound quality.

T
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So the distortion on level 10 is mild and not constant. Also, I don’t have it for older albums recorded before the “volume wars” with all the compression etc used in latter day studios. Level Nine was a cd volume matched perfect level for my tt. 
thanks again guys for your interest here. 
briefly, yes, I think 24/96 high end dac playback has many advantages and sounds up to snuff with vinyl. Thanks God for Qobuz and Tidal!  Use em a lot. 

T
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From the aforementioned article:

 

I love vinyl records, but I’m under no illusion when it comes to the compromises. On paper, digital is superior in almost every way from a technical standpoint. However, specifications can also be deceiving, and current mastering practices often lead to vinyl releases having greater dynamic range than their digital counterparts, which is ironic.

 

couldnt agree more

T
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No resolution yet. Just keeping this post alive until Sonos fixes this bug. 

N
Userlevel 7
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I admire your optimism, if nothing else. Good luck. 

T
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Thanks. 
 

T
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My weekly post. No solution by Sonos to this simple bug verified in their lab yet. 😞

T
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Going on 3 MONTHS!

jgatie

Going on 3 MONTHS!

 

I assure you, even using an agile process, the software development, test, and release cycle is longer than 3 months.

T
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That’s the most useful info I’ve gotten yet. 
thank you, jgatie😊

T
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Weekly check in. Not solved yet. Know it may take a while, but just keeping this thread alive. 

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