Full Equalizer?

A
Userlevel 1

I have several new Sonos speakers (including the new Era 300) and notice that the ‘S’ and ‘T’ sounds in several songs sound very thin and ‘tinny’ (almost like coming from ‘cheap’ tweeters).

What I’d like to do is turn down the treble a bit (highest highs) without losing the mid-range frequencies.  Therefore, instead of just two sliders (Bass & Treble), I’d like to see no less than five sliders (Bass, Lows, Mids, Highs, and Treble).  I suspect doing this would be fairly simple to code into the app and would resolve tonality issues for many Sonos users.

Sonos could go one step further and allow users to save a few profiles for different types of music (perhaps as a future update)...

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15 replies

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Have you run TruePlay to tune your speakers to your room?

A
Userlevel 1

Hi Stanley.  Yes, I ran TruePlay for the Arc home theater system (Arc, 2x Subs, 2x Era 300), the Kitchen (Era 100), Family Room (Era 100), and the exercise room (Era 300).  The Era 300 is the one that sounds more ‘tinny’ than the others (and not with all songs, but enough to be noticeable).

 

Knocking down the highest highs just a bit would likely solve the problem (and I also have loudness turned off so as not to accentuate the highs).  FWIW, I have the Bass enhanced +5 and the Treble set to 0 (otherwise I lose too much of the midrange).  I’d simply set the highs down to -2 to -5 if they could be independently adjusted.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Alan-64 

Welcome to the Sonos Community!

Thank you - I've marked this thread as a feature request and it will be seen by the relevant teams for consideration. Keep the ideas coming!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
D
Userlevel 1
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I would like to add to this. I would also like to see a 5-7 band equalizer. I noticed my hearing in my left ear has become problematic. Went to an audiologist and found my left ear has a significant drop at 4k Hz. To compensate for this, it was suggested boosting the 4k frequency up. So, besides allowing people to adjust the sound to their own taste, it would allow people like me to compensate for some hearing impairment issues. I also found myself needing closed captioning when watching TV, even with the Sonos Arc (my problem also makes it harder on picking up various words and sounds).

So TruPlay my help balance out the sound in the room, but an equalizer (beyond the bass and treble) would be a lot more helpful.

buzz

A detail that the audiologist may not have mentioned is that their testing does not usually include the higher frequencies. Typically they stop at 4K, maybe they’ll go to 8K. 

And I don’t know what your high frequency capability might be. For my father the top couple keys on a piano were simple mechanical thuds.

I’ll agree that typical treble controls might not be optimal for you because they will muck with things in the 2-4KHz region in addition to the extreme highs.

D
Userlevel 1
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A detail that the audiologist may not have mentioned is that their testing does not usually include the higher frequencies. Typically they stop at 4K, maybe they’ll go to 8K. 

And I don’t know what your high frequency capability might be. For my father the top couple keys on a piano were simple mechanical thuds.

I’ll agree that typical treble controls might not be optimal for you because they will muck with things in the 2-4KHz region in addition to the extreme highs.

On my testing, it made a “V” between 2kHz and 8kHz, with the bottom point right at 4k. Where it bottomed out was right at the top of the “Moderately Severe” level (4 out of 6 on the scale). Right ear was normal throughout the range.

I would think this would be something easily coded into the software. They could even make a switch from Simple (Bass/Treble) to Advanced (7-band equalizer) so you can choose one or the other.

G
Userlevel 3
Badge +5

Isn't this discussion about to take a bit of a weird turn.

Sonos is not in the hearing aid business, these Sonos users who have been diagnosed with a hearing loss, they would have a much better quality of life, if they bought a hearing aid.

The hearing loss must also handicap them in their daily life and not only when they are listening to music on Sonos.

And I am not in favor of all possible expansions of the equalizer with a lot of adjustment options of frequency bands and equalizer presets, I have seen / heard it on other products and it has never done anything good for the sound.

D
Userlevel 1
Badge

Isn't this discussion about to take a bit of a weird turn.

Sonos is not in the hearing aid business, these Sonos users who have been diagnosed with a hearing loss, they would have a much better quality of life, if they bought a hearing aid.

The hearing loss must also handicap them in their daily life and not only when they are listening to music on Sonos.

And I am not in favor of all possible expansions of the equalizer with a lot of adjustment options of frequency bands and equalizer presets, I have seen / heard it on other products and it has never done anything good for the sound.

Thank you for defining the product line of Sonos. Wasn’t asking them to make hearing aids and don’t presume to know about my or anybody else’s quality of life. I don’t need a hearing aid and I wasn’t speaking for all people with hearing issues as it seems you are. I was merely stating MY case for having an equalizer in the software so I (or others) can boost or decrease frequencies as needed. My suggestion was also making it switchable between the Bass and Treble and full equalizer. And if you want to use it, you can. If you don’t want to use it, then you don’t have to (same as the current bass and treble sliders).

If you think it took a weird turn, well I was merely explaining my result to another poster regarding the drop in the 4K range. That was all. Was just making MY point for the equalizer.

melvimbe

I wasn’t aware that hearing aids allow for boosting the volume of certain frequency ranges.  Is this a thing?  Regardless, it seems like a reasonable request (whether Sonos decides to implement or not) to ask for this so maybe you can listen to audio through the speakers without having to also where your hearing aid?

Danny
buzz

I’m not a hearing aid user and I don’t follow the market. Recently, regulations have been relaxed somewhat for the sale of hearing aids. As a result the market will broaden. Audiologist supplied hearing aids are individually adjusted for the patient’s deficiencies (frequency response and dynamics). User adjustments seem to be limited. I expect that there will be a new DIY class of product with available adjustments. With onboard processing and Bluetooth communication, user adjustment is practical. This was not the case in previous eras. This said, I don’t know if lack of audiologist involvement is in the best interest for all users/patients.

T

Any updates on the Full Equalizer band Application for Sonos, I couldn’t believe they literally only have Treble & Bass as the only settings, come on Audiophiles !!!

Give us one of those 20 Band Equalizer Stacks, Adjusting Mid Levels is the most enjoyable!

jgatie

Any updates on the Full Equalizer band Application for Sonos, I couldn’t believe they literally only have Treble & Bass as the only settings, come on Audiophiles !!!

Give us one of those 20 Band Equalizer Stacks, Adjusting Mid Levels is the most enjoyable!

 

Sonos never gives updates on what they are working on.  However, I would not expect a full band equalizer.  Sonos leans heavily towards Trueplay automatic equalization, which is the opposite of a manual full band equalizer. 

ratty

To quote the Trueplay blog article: 

Trueplay (the spectral part of it) does it for you. It does it quickly (in a minute or so) without any special equipment, just an iOS device with the Sonos app. The parametric equalizer embedded in Sonos products has sixteen filters—just try to adjust that by ear!

 

In my experience the only way to manually configure a multi-band PEQ/GEQ acceptably is if someone or something has done a response sweep first and auto-generated the corrective adjustments. A good example is the AutoEq project for headphones based on Oratory1990 et al.

T

That is good point Ratty - There essentially needs to be an engineered effort of providing an equalized true raw baseline of which each equalizer band is then contemplated to its maximum capability or “Acceptable” capability.

Would be good to hear how Sonos explains their approach if has been posted elsewhere

B
Badge

For Christmas I bought myself a pair of Era 300’s for my home office.  I’ve been playing with stuff since.  I’ve even signed up for the Beta program as it would be nice to provide input as development of this cool product line continues.  I really like these speakers.

One thing I’ve been playing with is TruePlay.  Honestly, I’m not particularly impressed.  I’ve run it several times and find that 4Khz and above is severely muted; meaning you can’t hear cymbals or high hats.  The 250 Hz to 2000 Hz range has too much gain giving it an almost “AM radio” sound.  Even the voice range seemed to have too much boost making it sound muddy.  It wasn’t horrible but it wasn’t good either.

Turning off TruePlay and all of sudden, even with the EQ flat, voices became clearer and I can actually hear cymbals and high hats again.

Ran TruePlay multiple times.  When I had just one Era 300 setup I could use the “basic” version and that helped a little but once I made them a stereo pair I had to use the iPhone for TruePlay.  At first I thought I may have done it wrong but I ran multiple times and even followed recommendations online especially for small rooms.  It helped little.  It improved when I brought the volume from 25% to about 35% but that was just too loud with the family home (at least for them :-D)

My point, TruePlay is cool but it will never be perfect because everyone’s ears hear different.  Everyone’s personal listening preference is different.  Heck, I wonder if my 1960’s heavy popcorn ceiling might be part of the issue.  I see TruePlay as a base to start from but not the end all be all because it has to have some type of standard to reach and that great for the “everyone” but not so great for the individual.  And ultimately, it’s the individual that has to listen to it.

I think that the Sonos app should have at least a 5 band or better a 10 band equalizer for those of us who would want nerd knobs.  For those wanting to keep it simple is easy enough; leave the existing settings and have an “Advanced” button.

These Era 300’s are amazing.  With the directional tweeters I see no reason why it couldn’t have a simple sound staging slider as well.  It would just adjust gain to those speakers and possibly delay (which would be determined by the initial TruePlay run).  

I get Sonos wanting us to use their magical tool (which really isn’t magical; it is basically applying EQ along with gain per driver and delay) but just offering treble, bass, loudness just seems almost like I’m being punished for not being happy with what the magical software decides.  This is especially relevant because of the quality of this hardware:  well made, well designed, the software is feature rich but actual sound control is very much lacking.

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