Contributor I

Answered

SMB 2 and 3 not working. Only SMB 1 works. S2 with 15.11 on Mac OS

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
December 30, 2023
22 replies
945 views

SMB 2 and 3 supposed to be supported but always fails indexing a library on a NAS. Have to switch SMB1 on to enable indexing. Once done switch off and will load and play library.

Synology DS723+

DSM 7.2.1-69057 update 3

Mac Sonama with S2 build 15.11.

Anyone solved this? I read a post about it all working fine, but not for me. 100s of posts out there.

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

Best answer by nodric

Corry,

To confirm, your S2 app requires NTLM v1 for authentication, which is why the other referenced post with a different issue was resolved, as it downgraded and used NTLM v1. I can confirm that turning on SMB2 with NTLM V1 using S2 solves the issue. Your S2 app needs to implement NTLM v2 authentication to be compliant with the later standards and to prevent the usage of SMB1 and NTLM v1.

Summary

It is an S2 issue with NTLM authentication over SMB v2 or higher. Enabling NTLM v1 solved the library sync issue. Enabling NTLM v1 is a security risk which is well referenced online by all software developers.

Show previous replies

N

nodricAuthor

Contributor I

Hi @ratty

The thread you linked to there is tagged to a specific issue with connecting Sonos to a USB drive plugged into a router, specifically. It does seem, however, that the issue tracker has been expanded since then to include NAS drives too, which I personally was not aware of, so good call out there. I admit I was puzzled as to why only USB+router combinations were affected when the issue first came to light, so to me it makes sense that the scope has been expanded.

However, in this instance it does seem that the issue @nodric reported has more to do with the software update that Synology drives received, the consequences of which can be resolved by following the steps included in the Best Answer here, meaning, as I mentioned, that “it’s not for us to address” in this particular case.

I hope this helps.

OK here is the explanation.

I just spoke to Synology. They decremented SMB v1 in their latest software/firmware release. They also strongly recommend not using SMB v1 or NTLM v1 as both have serious security vulnerabilities.

Sonos uses the NAS login username and password when authenticating to sync libraries etc. It requires NTLM V1 to be able to authenticate as Sonos does not support the newer encryption to enable it to logon using SMB v2/3 without NTLM v1.

The issue is at the Sonos side, assuming we want support for the latest more secure standards.

This is another example of Sonos being slow to fix things, or implement things, which is why I referred to the software update issue on the desktop app. Not an Apple issue, and not a Synology issue. Both are issues for Sonos to resolve and catch up.

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @nodric

The update issue with macOS only affects the update process from within the app. As this can be easily circumvented by simply downloading the new installation file from our website, the issue as a whole is not considered vitally urgent - the app itself works as intended once installed. As I mentioned, we have been working on it the whole time, but perhaps with less staff that with other issues currently being worked on. To me, this does not mean that we are telling macOS users to “go sing”- we are telling them to please go to our downloads page to perform the update.

OK here is the explanation.

I just spoke to Synology. They decremented SMB v1 in their latest software/firmware release. They also strongly recommend not using SMB v1 or NTLM v1 as both have serious security vulnerabilities.

Sonos uses the NAS login username and password when authenticating to sync libraries etc. It requires NTLM V1 to be able to authenticate as Sonos does not support the newer encryption to enable it to logon using SMB v2/3 without NTLM v1.

The issue is at the Sonos side, assuming we want support for the latest more secure standards.

This is another example of Sonos being slow to fix things, or implement things, which is why I referred to the software update issue on the desktop app. Not an Apple issue, and not a Synology issue. Both are issues for Sonos to resolve and catch up.

Are they talking about connections from S1 systems, or from S2 systems? S1 does not utilise SMBv2/3 as the Linux kernel it uses does not support SMBv2/3, and this is not going to change, due to those older, S1-only components not having the internal resources to run a newer Linux kernel. S2, on the other hand, does support SMBv2/3 which is why S2 systems can connect to various other NAS solutions without issue, despite them also disabling SMBv1 support. If you can verify that they were referring to connections from S2 systems, I would be happy to relay this response to my colleagues.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

N

nodricAuthorAnswer

Contributor I

Corry,

To confirm, your S2 app requires NTLM v1 for authentication, which is why the other referenced post with a different issue was resolved, as it downgraded and used NTLM v1. I can confirm that turning on SMB2 with NTLM V1 using S2 solves the issue. Your S2 app needs to implement NTLM v2 authentication to be compliant with the later standards and to prevent the usage of SMB1 and NTLM v1.

Summary

It is an S2 issue with NTLM authentication over SMB v2 or higher. Enabling NTLM v1 solved the library sync issue. Enabling NTLM v1 is a security risk which is well referenced online by all software developers.

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @nodric

Thank you - I will forward this on.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @nodric

Apologies - the other thread that I linked to only applies to S1 systems. That was my mistake.

Thanks for the feedback. We will submit this as a feature request for future NTLM v2 implementation.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

ratty

@Corry P

You volunteered the information that:

the percentage of our users that use desktop apps is tiny

(of which I happen to be one such individual)

Can you say how tiny is the percentage of users who still use a local music library?

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @ratty

Sorry - I don’t have that information. I just know it is relatively small.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

C

craigski

Local Superstar

I would assume, the relatively small is becoming relatively smaller.

Just a random thought - In the final iteration of local Sonos Music Library on my system, I recall it didn’t require SMB share(s) to be setup, as the players accessed the ‘SonosLibraryService’ on a Windows device. I couldn’t find much info on the service/protocol. I’m wondering if this is an option to avoid SMB/NTLM? Could this service be adapted/extended to non Windows devices in the same way as other Music Services?

Corry P

Sonos Staff

Hi @craigski

Good question! Yes, the SonosLibrayService executable will attempt to create a HTTP (or maybe it is HTTPS) connection to speakers first and only fall back to SMB if that fails.

I would presume this could be added to NAS drives, but would need some kind of app to be written for that device - key word is presume, as this is a bit beyond my paygrade. If it is doable, I would think that it would still be added to a system as a Music Library path - for it to be a service, cloud computing would need to be involved (like the old Western Digital MyCloud music service, or Plex).

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein

ratty

It’s a background Windows service based on HTTP. Porting that to anywhere else would probably be a load of work.

IMO if Sonos made DLNA work properly that could be a viable alternative, with widespread support already built into routers, NASes, etc. I have a WiiM device, able to access a copy of my music library off a repurposed router using DLNA, and it works fine.

Show more replies

Sign up

Login to the community