The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

@Ralpfocus If multi room in sync is that important to you, there may be a way to get it while running a split system, using Echo devices. I had put forth how this may be done using a single untethered Echo Device bridging the two systems in the cloud. @Ryan S has shot this down, but, with apologies for mixing metaphors, has also pulled his punch in a subtle edit to his post made later, an edit that I picked up! 

But he has planted an alternative with promise, if there are line in jacks in both parts of the split system, using two Echo devices, one wired to each line in, and then using the Alexa app and Amazon tech to bridge the two systems. I will check out this later today and report results; I can see no reason why this should not work. And this one I can test, it does not need the India integration.

In my next post, some musings on this all rooms in sync requirement.

On the multi room in perfect sync function:

The Sonos multi room feature has two parts to it: Multi room play from a single source and such play that is also in perfect sync. One needs to see it this way because many may only need the first part, and if so, even that need may have evaporated via streaming services if NAS play isn't required.

When I bought into Sonos in 2011, I was looking for just the first part. What I wanted was a way to play my CD collection conveniently in the living room to start with and then, via more Sonos kit, in my bedroom. Moving the CD content to a NAS gave me just that - one source supply to multiple rooms. There was no need to have the music play in sync: that in the bedroom could not be heard in the living room anyway, at the sound levels I play music at.  This business of music following me around did not appeal to me then, and does not appeal to me now. As the use of the NAS as a source has reduced with a shift to streaming services, the utility of this function has dropped - my son who uses his bedroom whenever he is with us, has his own set up and he sees no need for Sonos since he does not need any such music from the NAS that isn't already in Apple Music - indeed a couple of years ago he donated the play 1 from that room for use in the open space zones. Without multi room, one can now play music in all rooms via the cloud, that one big source replacing the tiny NAS. Or now, in what is a 6 zone system, in any zone in the open space. And even the NAS can be used as a source without multi room functionality by a one time upload of its contents to Google in the cloud and accessed by any room without needing multi room functionality.

Moving on to the second aspect - the in sync thing. Over time, I added more zones to the open space where my living room is one part, to get over the problem of music having to be too loud at one corner of the space to be properly heard at the other distant corners. Just for this, perfect sync is still not needed. But it did not take me too long to realise how well parties would be served by playing all zones in the open space, when perfect sync was absolutely essential. But if this need was not there by virtue of not having a open space concept in the home, the perfect sync would also not be needed, and I could well have split my system and stayed with Sonos. 

BUT - there are now many ways to skin the multi room cat, including the one that does perfect sync for zones in open space home architecture. And Sonos has given all their competition a big boost by giving us a compelling reason to look at them. Which sentence circles this post back to topic.

All of the above might be useful on thinking through options for a post Sonos Brexit future - note that real one has dawned on Britain and the EU today.

Bumping my quote in the interest of continuity/coherence for the good new that follows:

I have just concluded testing the Ryan idea referred to in the second paragraph quoted. IT WORKS, OUT OF THE BOX!! Kudos to Ryan!

Actually, I made the test even more of a test. I often leave my Sonos net powered down if the all party mode via Sonos control is not needed. To play any one line in driven zone, I merely then have to boot it, leaving the root bridge unit powered off, and start the Echo device attached via voice or Amazon casting, and music starts playing from the Connect/Connect Amp in that one zone.

What I did to run the test is to wire a Dot to an unused line in equipped Connect Amp zone in the open space; one Connect Amp there already has a Echo Show wired to it. Then I powered on the Dot, the Show, and the two Connect Amps. Made and named a multi room of the two Echo devices via the Alexa app. And then, using the cast feature in the Amazon Music app, picked the named multi room Echo device group as the target and the music started coming out of the two speaker pairs in the two zones, that are wired to the two Connect Amp speaker terminals. IN PERFECT SYNC - right from the beginning. And since one of the two Echo devices was a Show 5, with album art there as well. 

Admittedly, I did not test to see if there is any drifting of the sync after ten minutes which is when I shut the test down. 

If this works for two Connect Amps that are not on any system, there is no reason I can see for this to not work just as well on such products sitting in the two parts of a split system, as long as both have a line in jack on them. And a mere party mode grouping of all Sonos units in both systems separately should have all playing music in perfect sync. Driven by Amazon. That’s Bezos 1, Spence 0.

I don't know if this can work for Google/Chromcast - I have just the one device, so I cannot test. But for sure this means that let alone a lawsuit, Sonos better keep Amazon onside from now on in every way.

For me, nothing changes - once the hardware dies, I no longer need Sonos, I have cheaper replacements I know about, that will do for me all that Sonos does. But others may want to look at this way of keeping Sonos units on different versions still able make music together.

@Ryan S : over to you now.

I joined this forum today only to voice my displeasure with this decision.  I have 3 items that are now considered “Legacy” and several others that are not.  I am very disappointed with this decision!!!!  I have recommended Sonos to many people and in most cases they have purchased.  There goes people valuing my recommendations.  My point is, Sonos decision has other impacts.  The part that’s really concerning is a 4 month warning, that’s just unacceptable in my opinion.  

After spending thousands with Sonos, this is my Thank You For Your Business?

@Noelle : what you have posted is copy of your post on the other thread that is there for venting frustration. This thread is for the next steps - finding solutions available to us that do not rely on Sonos except where that simply cannot be avoided, and there are many such solutions. 

On that basis, how can we help you?

Seeing once again this perfect Echo sync that drives via Line In the Sonos sync across two Sonos systems, raises the question I have asked before - how does Echo achieve this trick? I have a suspicion that it isn't done at a local level at all like Sonos does; somewhere in the Alexa cloud, the Echo group is registered as such - as evidenced to an extent by the fact that Echo groups, unlike Sonos ones, survive power cycling. The music streams then are synced in the cloud and sent at the exact same time to each Echo device in the group. That the music also plays in sync at distant destinations after passing through a bunch of devices en-route demonstrates how well this works. If that is indeed the way this works. And if so, there may not be any Sonos patent infringement by Amazon. And given that Amazon may provide Sonos with a solution to this significant issue of integrating split systems, Sonos may not even want to approach any sleeping dogs there, even if there are any such.

@Kumar thank you, I definitely should have read the thread.

it definitely looks like this thread provides some great ideas or next steps for my review.

No one has responded to this suggestion, so while the majority of the user base is asleep because of the time differences/weekend, I have taken the opportunity of the quiet time here to fork this thread with a new one opened for advanced approaches, link below.

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-advanced-approaches-6836622

To recap:

A little over a week ago, I started this thread to engage with like minded people here: those that felt the way I did, as explained in my opening post here. I intended this to be the last thread I open on this site.

This thread has grown beyond expectations. While everyone on it has contributed to keep it profanity free and largely rant free, with an occasional nudge by @Edward R in that effort, just by virtue of its length, it has become unwieldy as all long threads become. And it has many days to run, because the Sonos Brexit event, and the release of detailed information about it by Sonos, are both at least three months away.

I therefore thought that it made sense to break my promise to myself - No More Threads - and make just  one exception to it, by opening a new thread, link above. That one is meant to discuss such approaches and options that may be employed by advanced users that are comfortable going well beyond plug and play options in pursuit of ways past this Sonos Brexit with or without incorporating any Sonos product in it. This thread may then continue to be used for options that probably a majority of Sonos users will be able to employ - the plug and play kind of options towards the same objective. Which are those that employ off the shelf third party devices that are self contained, such as Echo Dots as an example, where the only wiring, if needed, is external - a stereo wire running between Sonos and non Sonos devices. And which do not involve any coding or any attempt to get under the Sonos hood. Or which involve server like devices that need a complex set up to get it to work with Sonos. In brief, something that non geeks - and I am one of those - will be able to cope with are for this thread, while the complex options belong to the new thread, as its title suggests.

There is no set in stone dividing line between the two approaches and none is needed. I am sure that community judgement can be relied on to keep the two threads distinct, linked by a common ethos, in a way that both threads end up being more useful than one thread will be, just by being less unwieldy.

So, well before Sonos forks out legacy and modern systems into two, a fork to serve all that will be effected by the Sonos fork.

@Noelle Good luck; it is a long and therefore unwieldy thread, an outcome arising out of the nature of an online discussion, so take your time! I am trying to address that by forking the thread into two, as you will see on a post on this page, but even if that helps, we are stuck with the present levels of unwieldiness that nothing can reduce. A legacy problem:-)).

@Ryan S @Edward R : there seems to be something wrong with the link to the last page of this thread, it does not allow me to go directly to the last page from the thread list. I have to open the first page, and then click the last page there, a very tiresome process. I don’t know if this is affecting just me, of course; can you help?

Thanks.

This may be of interest, I just remembered - not only was the Boost/Sonos net powered off when I did the test, one of the Connect Amps even had its WiFi disabled. That suggests that all the syncing is happening in the Amazon domain. And that also suggests that even if Sonos pulls the plug completely on this Connect Amp, it will continue to work as a HiFi quality dumb amplifier till the hardware dies. As well as do grouped in sync play with the other legacy Connect/Connect Amps operating in similar mode, with the Echo devices taking over all the brain functions.

Which makes the Sonos advice to send these to a landfill in exchange for a 30% voucher, at the earliest opportunity, even more shocking - promoting the creation of unnecessary electronic waste just to promote their sales. The feeling at this is of being gobsmacked as such discoveries emerge.