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Play sonos s1 stream on s2 system

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Hi,

If I have both S1 & S2 sonos set up on the same network, can I play an S1 stream on my S2 system?

Thanks.

S1 and S2

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t999Answer

Trending Lyricist I

I’m afraid you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Sonos actually works.

I’m more than happy to learn!

Assuming two way communication is essential for sync (what does this acheive - presumably the master unit can’t slow down playback if the syncing unit can’t keep up) then could the S2 unit not simply mimic an S1 unit?

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t999Author

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Ah ok. Is this not a bit odd considering the rationale for S2 was to allow compatability with more music services etc. than S1 hardware could support. Surely playing an S1 stream (albeit with no control over it other than volume) would be pretty basic / obvious here?

In order to group S1 and S2 rooms together to play the same stream, both the S1 and S2 units need to recognize/identify the other unit(s) in the group. Since the S1 units are memory bound, there is no room in the S1 firmware to add the support for the new S2 units like the Arc or Roam. Which is the reason for the S1/S2 split in the first place - S1 doesn’t have enough room to accommodate new devices and/or functionality.

Yes, I get that S1 doesn’t have the capacity to do this, however, surely an S2 system could detect that an S1 system is already playing on the same network and “lock on” and play this stream.

The S1 system would be effectively unaware of this, but the net effect would be that the two systems would operate as one.

Sonos does not work that way. Put a different way, Sonos never designed the S2 system to allow users to select “S1 system playing on the same WiFi network” on the same network and play that instead TV, aux input, or a streaming service. There are numerous issues with that. For one, it would be difficult if not impossible to keep the music in sync, since the S1 system would not be aware that it’s to play in sync with another system. Two, what if there are more than one stream playing in the S1 system? How do you identify them and properly pick up which stream you wish to play? Three, I’m not sure you can just easily hijack data being transported from one device to another, or a net as the case is with Sonos, particularly when it’s Sonosnet and not your actual Wifi. Four, if you’re an Apple user, this would be much better accomplished by using Airplay, I believe. So, most of your customers are no longer using S1, many of those don’t also have an S2 system, and rougly half of the remaining already have a solution...and the number will always get smaller. It’s hard to argue that such a feature would drive product sales, or worth charging a subscription fee over. Does it really seem like a wise development effort for Sonos to pursue?

Presumably when I play something on my S1 system, the master unit streams whatever I am playing to the other units in the group, along with some sync information. This is what I mean by an S1 stream, I accept it may not be official terminology but I would be surprised if there is no such thing.

Assuming (I may be wrong) that sonos didn’t start from scratch with S2 and used some of the existing code from S1, it doesn’t seem like it would be technically all that difficult for and S2 system to play whatever music is already playing on S1 in a similar fashion to how it would play what I am playing on Spotify on my ‘phone.

Commercially there may not be a huge benefit from this, other than S1 diehards might but S2 devices to supplement their existing system.

jgatie

Yes, I get that S1 doesn’t have the capacity to do this, however, surely an S2 system could detect that an S1 system is already playing on the same network and “lock on” and play this stream.

The S1 system would be effectively unaware of this, but the net effect would be that the two systems would operate as one.

Not the way it works. For the S1 unit to play in sync with the S2 unit, careful timing cues are communicated between the two units, and these timing cues need to go both ways, from S1->S2, and from S2->S1. Thus the S2 units need to support the S1 units (easily done) and the S1 units need to support the S2 units (impossible for the Arc/Roam). Since the latter is impossible, S2 cannot “lock on” to an “S1 stream”. .

jgatie

Presumably when I play something on my S1 system, the master unit streams whatever I am playing to the other units in the group, along with some sync information. This is what I mean by an S1 stream, I accept it may not be official terminology but I would be surprised if there is no such thing.

Assuming (I may be wrong) that sonos didn’t start from scratch with S2 and used some of the existing code from S1, it doesn’t seem like it would be technically all that difficult for and S2 system to play whatever music is already playing on S1 in a similar fashion to how it would play what I am playing on Spotify on my ‘phone.

Commercially there may not be a huge benefit from this, other than S1 diehards might but S2 devices to supplement their existing system.

I’m afraid you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Sonos actually works.

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t999AuthorAnswer

Trending Lyricist I

I’m afraid you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Sonos actually works.

I’m more than happy to learn!

Assuming two way communication is essential for sync (what does this acheive - presumably the master unit can’t slow down playback if the syncing unit can’t keep up) then could the S2 unit not simply mimic an S1 unit?

Ken_Griffiths

@t999,

One way to stream the same music to both S1 and S2 systems is to use Apple Airplay2 (I sometimes use Apple Music and Airplay from an iPad) - but that requires a compatible speaker (a Sonos One for example) to be available in both systems and target them both with the same playing stream, but a note of caution, the streams can occasionally go out of sync, but it’s not a bad workaround - I use it myself occasionally.

Attachment shows one speaker selected from each system for playback.

jgatie

I’m more than happy to learn!

Assuming two way communication is essential for sync (what does this acheive - presumably the master unit can’t slow down playback if the syncing unit can’t keep up) then could the S2 unit not simply mimic an S1 unit?

Not quite the way it works, but either way Sonos is not going to release a system where only a few devices can be a master, it is not going to happen. Plus, grouping is dynamic, so any device needs to be able to take over as the master if the master device is taken out of the group.

For instance, stream is playing on Roam. You group in the S1 device, Roam is the master. You then ungroup the Roam, streaming is now playing on the S1 device. S1 device is now the master. Now try to regroup the Roam. Guess what? You can’t.

Can you see where this would be a logistical nightmare? And that is just one example, there could be dozens more. The disclaimers Sonos would have to publish would be 6 pages long, and that is only if “simply mimicking the S1 unit” were possible, which it is not.

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t999Author

Trending Lyricist I

@t999,

One way to stream the same music to both S1 and S2 systems is to use Apple Airplay2 (I sometimes use Apple Music and Airplay from an iPad) - but that requires a compatible speaker (a Sonos One for example) to be available in both systems and target them both with the same playing stream, but a note of caution, the streams can occasionally go out of sync, but it’s not a bad workaround - I use it myself occasionally.

Attachment shows one speaker selected from each system for playback.

This sounds like a pretty good workaround, thanks!

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t999Author

Trending Lyricist I

I’m more than happy to learn!

Assuming two way communication is essential for sync (what does this acheive - presumably the master unit can’t slow down playback if the syncing unit can’t keep up) then could the S2 unit not simply mimic an S1 unit?

Not quite the way it works, but either way Sonos is not going to release a system where only a few devices can be a master, it is not going to happen. Plus, grouping is dynamic, so any device needs to be able to take over as the master if the master device is taken out of the group.

For instance, stream is playing on Roam. You group in the S1 device, Roam is the master. You then ungroup the Roam, streaming is now playing on the S1 device. S1 device is now the master. Now try to regroup the Roam. Guess what? You can’t.

Can you see where this would be a logistical nightmare? And that is just one example, there could be dozens more. The disclaimers Sonos would have to publish would be 6 pages long, and that is only if “simply mimicking the S1 unit” were possible, which it is not.

Not really what I am suggesting. I would see it more as a sort of digital line out → line in.Pretty sure I’ve seen elsewhere on the forum that this works and if so would imply this is possible at least in theory.

Do you work for Sonos? If not can you point me in the direction of more technical info on the protocol?

Airgetlam

I don’t think they publish much, probably due to other companies trying to steal their efforts, on protocols. They do, however, publish the API that all services inside the Sonos controller use at the Sonos partners page.

Bruce

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t999Author

Trending Lyricist I

I don’t think they publish much, probably due to other companies trying to steal their efforts, on protocols. They do, however, publish the API that all services inside the Sonos controller use at the Sonos partners page.

Yeah that seems reasonable - the posters above seemed to be claiming in depth technical knowledge of how the system works so I was wondering if this was from having worked for Sonos or if there was info available online somewhere.

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