It's bonkers. The usual suspects bang on about it being Google's fault but when you tell them that an independent music player app can cast music to Sonos speakers, they bang on about the Sonos app being a remote control, not a music player. Excuses, excuses…

Anyway, the app in question is Hi-Fi Cast. It's available for free, but you can pay about £6 to purchase it. It works a treat and you get none of the lagging nonsense regularly encountered in the Sonos app. I'm out of town at the moment but when I'm home and connected to my network, all of the speakers shown in the attached screenshot from the app are available to cast to.

It’s not “Excuses, excuses…”, it’s facts.  I respectfully request you attack the argument and not the person, @RJSUK.  Stop handwaving and make a cogent rebuttal.  Quit attacking people as “apologists” or “usual suspects” and instead, tell us how Sonos is supposed to get around Google’s rules?

Dude, I'm not attacking anyone, just imparting knowledge that there is an independent app that can do what Sonos claims they cannot do anymore, that some Sonos users my find helpful. There is obviously a subset of community members who identify with the term "usual suspects". If there wasn't, my use of the term wouldn't offend anyone! ;-)

Moving on, here's a screenshot from the Hi-Fi Cast app now that I'm home and connected to my network. As well as my Sonos speakers, it can also connect with my Bose SoundTouch 20 speaker! If I want to playback on Sonos speakers in multiple rooms, I can go into the Sonos app and set it up from there, AFTER I've started casting from the Hi-Fi Cast app.

However when connected to multiple rooms, the track time counter in the Hi-Fi Cast app reverts to 0.00  seconds and stays there for each track, but I can skip backwards and forwards between tracks. Conversely, the track time counter works in the Sonos app but I cannot skip forwards, just restart the track currently playing. Basically, it's not perfect if you want multiple room playback but it is for one room playback.

I only need this function because the amount of music I own exceeds the Sonos library limit and if I want all of my music to be accessible, I need to use a device in conjunction with the hard drive I have plugged into my router (which I find to be an altogether much easier option than running a NAS).

Finally (and off topic in this thread), I've noticed that Classic search now includes the results for Sonos Radio straight after the results for my local library, even though I've never used the service! I find it very arrogant that Sonos do not allow customers to remove it, like it does with all other services.

If I’m using an Android (tablet), then I sometimes use a Bluetooth connection, either to a Roam, Era or Move2 speaker and play the downloaded/locally-stored tracks to any/every Sonos speaker using Poweramp from the Google PlayStore - I’ve tried HiFi cast too, but it’s not the best player IMHO. Poweramp has a few useful EQ presets, although I mostly leave things flat nowadays and just let (auto)/Truplay do it’s thing.

Of course the Sonos App itself, is just a ‘remote’ for the Sonos speakers, rather than a music player, so I understand why it does not do these things. 

I’m quite happy to use a Bluetooth connection anyway and I do like the way that Sonos have implemented that connection as an audio source for playback on any Sonos device in the same HH, via grouping.

All said and done though, there’s always services like iBroadcast, Emby, Plex, aswell as the Sonos local library (SMB) access anyway (to name but a few services) that can help provide further options with playing locally held music on Sonos devices. I even have a way to ‘cast’ to Sonos using the Nvidia Shield and a Sonos HT product linked to the TV - so playing locally held music is not really a huge issue, personally speaking and I have no issues playing music that’s held on an Android tablet. 

Hi-Fi Cast is a DLNA/UPnP media app (server/renderer/control point) similar to BubbleUPnP. Like all such apps they’ll cast to Sonos players as UPnP renderers, though this is unofficial and playback support is sometimes a bit hit and miss.

Again, this is utterly different from the Sonos Controller app, which is simply a remote control, and cannot (now, thanks to Google) also function as a server to dispense local files.

I really can’t understand why it’s so difficult to understand the distinction. 

It used to be nice and simple to connect to a Sonos system and play music directly from my Samsung phone; being limited by the host’s music library or being forced to use another godforsaken streaming service is a big step backward.

Sad to see Sonos not adapting to Google’s changes and removing features and functionality. When my company’s software is broken by new iOS or Android requirements we patch and update the code to maintain functionality. Sonos is pitifully doing the opposite.

And if Google or Apple tell you you are in violation of their rules and must remove the functionality or be removed from their store, do you still maintain that functionality?  

If it is functionality that the user was sold on and expects, yes, we find a way to properly implement it. That has happened numerous times: we’ve had to replace older libraries, add in support for requirements like account deletion, etc. That’s our job as the developer and duty to our customer.

If local media playback is not something Sonos perceives its userbase needing or not worth the effort to properly implement then that is their perogative of course, but it kills a major point of functionality for me.

Sonos still provides ways to play a ‘local library’. Due to changes in rules from the makers of the various OS systems, Sonos is no longer able to do that from a mobile device, be it iOS or Android. Nothing has changed for PC/Mac libraries, or NAS storage, either. 

It seems challenging to me to lay the responsibility for that removal of access on mobile devices that run mobile operating systems at the feet of Sonos. 

So I guess that means you just live with the fact that your app is removed from the App Store or Google Play Store?  Because Google and Apple have declared that accessing their devices via 3rd party external hardware is a security risk, and have closed it off.  Sonos’ app is not a media player, it is a controller, and the entire design for Sonos is the smarts are in the player, not the app.  So how exactly are they going to access data for which the OS has closed off access, and threatened to remove the app from their stores if Sonos tries to hack around that closed off access? 

Right, but specific to what was of great utility for me and other users was the capability of playing our library from our phone. Desktop/laptop/NAS solutions don’t cover this unfortunately. 

It seems challenging to me to lay the responsibility for that removal of access on mobile devices that run mobile operating systems at the feet of Sonos. 

Perhaps, but their communication/clarity on this has been awful and judging from so many more complaints on the issue I think they could have done a far better job of informing their users. I started skimming through this forum to get more info on the actual root cause and that’s not completely clear either, just some . In any case, I came here to voice my displeasure, am happy to find I am by no means alone with this frustration, and now understand Sonos’s limitations to guide my next purchases.

I personally think Sonos Staff explained things clearly, in advance, and gave their users plenty of alternative ways to play their tracks - here is the thread:

https://en.community.sonos.com/product%2Dupdates/on%2Dthis%2Ddevice%2Dfor%2Dandroid%2Dcontroller%2Dno%2Dlonger%2Dsupported%2D6882524

I don’t see what else Sonos could do with their software ‘remote’ controller App - it was a feature taken away by others. Clearly Sonos didn’t want this - it was something that was forced on them.

There are further alternatives that were not mentioned too (I think) such as iBroadcast service, Emby, aswell as HiFi cast player. I opted to simply use Bluetooth.

I’m not precisely sure how many playback alternatives there are, but there’s clearly a half-dozen, or more, to choose from.

Your government bans the use of diesel. Local gas stations stop carrying it. Is it correct to lay the blame on the local station? Or should you blame the government who banned the use? 

That’s exactly the same as what we’re experiencing here. The Android OS has banned the use of their devices as a local drive, affecting Sonos, among some others, and following in the footsteps of Apple, who banned the same thing a couple of years ago. And yet we seem to be blaming Sonos for this change.

I’m not sure this change would have been something Sonos was in favor of, I have heard rumors of them fighting with Apple about it (my ‘source’ is no longer valid, so I don’t know about discussions with the Android folks, but it seems likely). 

Is it frustrating? Sure. Can we all wish the OS makers didn’t have to make this choice, and force Sonos to alter their connection methods? Absolutely. 

I went through this issue a couple of years ago with iOS. Is it life changing? Not to me, it just required a relatively minor change in my habits. I still use Bluetooth to communicate with my Roam, and group it with my other Sonos speakers to play content from my iPad or iPhone. I’ve moved my library to other places (an NAS) for normal playback, especially when my mobile devices are not on the same LAN as the Sonos is. 

I suspect Sonos are secretly happy about this. Another reason to drop support for personal libraries altogether and just focus on an app that supports streaming services. New search not showing results for personal libraries and their new range of speakers being Bluetooth enabled spell it out loud and clear.

I’m afraid it isn’t Sonos who dictates the concentration on streaming services, it is the public. 

• Music streaming makes up 84% of music industry revenue
• The music streaming industry grew by over 10% over the last year
• Music streaming’s global revenue currently sits at $17.5 billion
• Paid music streaming makes up 23% of all music streaming
• 78% of people listen to music via a streaming service
• Over 600 million subscribe to a music streaming platform

https://explodingtopics.com/blog/music-streaming-stats

And at last count (and it was a while ago), 93% of content on Sonos is done via streaming.  7% is local libraries.

Dude, I'm not disputing the popularity of streaming services and I don't think anyone needs it spelled out. I'm just suggesting that not having to support music libraries will be a bonus for Sonos.

Support for playing from an Android phone and support for local network music libraries are completely different. The loss of one due to a change in the mobile’s operating system has absolutely zero bearing on the other.

Who said they aren’t supporting local music libraries? 

The writing is on the wall for local music libraries. New search doesn't include local libraries and it ain't gonna be called New search forever. Expect the usual suspects to be doing the rounds putting a positive spin on it when Sonos pull the plug on it! 

So that would mean "nobody" said they aren't supporting local libraries.  Gotcha.

I’d be surprised if the music library went away, there are enough customers that have content not available via streaming that would be quite unhappy.

Remain a very low priority, probably.

I do not think anybody has put a positive spin on the end tp playing music that's on your phone, be it from Android recently or from an iPhone years ago. For many users this has not been a good experience.  It's just that some believe that they are not being lied to when Sonos says it is unavoidable. Others keep going back to the past. 

There are so many ways to play a users own music library on Sonos. It will take some getting rid of. The methods that spring to mind (off the top of my head) …and some (not all) which I may use are…

• Sonos SMB Shared Library
• Sonos HTTP Shared Library
• Playback over Bluetooth
• Playback over Airplay
• Playback over Chromecast (to TV/Soundbar)
• TV Apps that access a NAS Share, VLC etc.
• Apple Music iCloud Service within Sonos App (library copy)
• Plex Service
• Emby Service (direct control)
• iBroadcast Service (library copy)
• YouTube Music (library copy)
• DLNA (Windows Media)
• Playback over Line-In (mobile streaming device)

I’m sure I may have forgot some from that list too…

However, it will really take some doing to stop folk playing their local library files on Sonos Speakers.

Daddy chill. Why are you trolling me and claiming that I've said that someone has said that Sonos are not going to support local libraries? Please link to the relevant comment. All I've suggested is that not having to support local libraries would be a bonus for Sonos and the lack of local library results in New search hints that they could be headed in that direction.