Let me guess . . . your filenames and pathnames are huge?  Very long file/pathnames can make a relatively small library take up many more slots than the actual number of tracks, quickly filling up the 65K limit.  If this is so, you are correct, it has nothing to do with SMB.  It also has nothing to do with the new software, because that limit has been there for decades.

Shorten up your pathnames, either by shortening the actual path, or sharing from closer to the folder(s) where the tracks reside. 

They are what gets created when you burn CDs.  Most of my 20,000 songs came from when I digitized my music collection.

I-Tunes handles it just fine.  Sonos should be able to handle it also.  

But, yes, it is the update.  It has nothing to do with the player.  Only the indexing software.

It is a NAS drive, index the file names BACK to the NAS drive. Not limit needed.  It is simply terrible software.  To do this all in memory is a terrible design.

I can’t imagine a single person out there with a large music library that could use this functionality. It is horrible.

I have a library of almost 30,000 songs and my indexing works fine. I added just under 200 songs last night that indexed without issues.

I have a Synology NAS on my network with just under half of my speakers hardwired.

Awesome. But that doesn’t stop the continuous error the rest of us are getting.  What app are you adding your file shares from?

@sambrosius Of course if there’s any indexing being done the SMB-version is not the problem. But lots of people do not get a connection to their library at all - and if that’s your problem it can most definitely be SMBv1 that Sonos stopped supporting early in May.

Your problem looks like it’s connected to the 65k limit. No one except Sonos can say if it is easy to fix or not. But it would be go to know if you also had this problem when the old app was still around, or if it developed more recently?

Why the attitude though? This is a user community where users are trying to help others. Nobody is knowingly providing wrong solutions as you seem to say.

I just bought the system.  Never used the old app, but from the other posts I can see that Sonos has been giving people the run around. Just like myself.  The tech support basically after lying to me about what the issue is had to admit, “we have a problem and we don’t know when it is going to be fixed”.

So I went and did my own research.  What is the 65K limit?  Because I couldn’t get even 2,000 songs (no directory, just the songs in a single directory) to load.  I finally narrowed it down to about 1,000 that worked for a while, but in the end I was down to 250 until I hit the 16 folder issue.  9,000 total songs is a drop in the bucket for most music libraries.  

My complaint is why isn’t Sonos doing the same debugging I am.

 I have a meticulously tagged library of 42,000 tracks.  They index OK.  I did have some Bluesound stuff some years ago.  On one occasion the index stalled.  As I remember you could send them a log and they would tell you at which point the index stalled.  Then you could troubleshoot the issue.  If I remember correctly the index stall was due to a special character Bluesound did not like.  Who knows now maybe that’s all changed and the index would have completed.  I’ve never had an incomplete Sonos index.

What app do you use to add your Shared Folders.  IOS doesn’t work at all.  Windows app is the one I have been using.

I have mostly used the app on my Mac to configure and edit my local library. I sometimes use the app for queues, but its mainly to access the files I want to play.

 I use the Windows app because there is no progress feedback when indexing using the Sonos app.

Just FYI @sambrosius 

I have over 20k songs in my library stored on a Synology NAS.
Not sure what you mean by the “16 folder limit”. My music has a separate folder for each Artist and Album folders within that. I have 583 Artists (top level folders) and 1108 Albums (lower level folders).

Like you I used the Sonos Windows Desktop app to add the Synology music share to Sonos.
I generally use the Windows Desktop app to do the reindex and have never had a problem.

The only music library issues I currently have is the 16.3 Firmware issue to do with compilations making the album view useless and the lack of direct alphabetic positioning using the new IOS app (for both the artists and albums views) which is a pain for Sonos users with large local Music libraries.
e.g. Scrolling through 1108 Albums to get to the “Zombie” Album by Fila Keti is a painfully slow process.
I am currently tending to use SonoPhone/SonoPad for local library playback for that reason.

Ross. 

Fila Keti or Fela Kuti?

Ooops. Bad proofreading of post on my side...

I see your problem was misdiagnosed by the Sonos people? They expressly told you there was an SMB problem (for which, by the way, no solution will be provided)? And this qualifies as “lying” to you, not just a mistake, or insufficient training?

So what exactly did Sonos tell you? Can you show a typical filename for a song, so someone here can say if it is too long and would cause the 65k limit to be reached?

There is a limit of 65,000 items that Sonos can potentially index in a local music library. However, it’s not a guaranteed maximum, as there appears to be a fixed limit on how much space the index can consume as well. Unfortunately no-one knows what that is and also the app doesn’t tell you what % of available space your index has used. (Which would be really useful) 

Very long overall path plus file names can eat into that space quicker. 

When you say 16 folders, do you mean you've added 16 different folders into the main music library settings? 

Also, as others have asked, do you have a long overall path to your music like …

\\my-really-long-network-drive-name\another-really-long-path-to-my-music\which-starts-here ?

Thanks. Just gave it a listen. Good stuff.

Also, you just taught me that Afrobeats (which I already listen to at times) is different from Afrobeat.

Again, I have 9,000 files loaded.  Path is IP/Public/Sonos/Sonos01 .  I can not have more than a couple hundred songs in that directory or the directory fails to load. 

So I have 01 - 16.  (thus the 16 shared folder limit).

Total about 9,000 songs. 

How is anyone getting 20K songs to index.

If I press  Update Music Library Now, the index fails with the error:

The device where the music files is stored may not be powered on….

This is the error associated with the 65K rule (based on searching) but makes no sense since I only have 9K songs loaded.

@sambrosius I don’t have a solution for the issue you are reporting, and have experienced this myself.

We used to be able to see our total track number through the Sonos diagnostics, but that was removed partly because it’s not just the 65K tracks but also associated metadata than can exceed Sonos’ limit. I do believe that if you submit a diagnostic and contact Sonos Support they can tell you whether the limit is being exceeded, but of course you can be confident that with only 9K tracks you will be fine.

Under S2, I could index my NAS library fine using SMBv1. I can force my NAS to use whichever SMB protocol I choose. When SMBv1 support was removed for S2 users, I started seeing problems. This was years ago. I have my music split into 12 folders to try and reduce the track number per folder, and I don’t have long path names - an example being \\music\MNO\New Order\Brotherhood. You can’t get shorter than that.

Sometimes I am able to index everything with a single \\music entry in the desktop library settings. But then if I add a new album and re-index, it fails. I can be listening to music from my library, start the index, and it will say the location is no longer available! And the music keeps playing….

When I get errors, my router’s log reports a lack of SMB credits. But of course my NAS works fine for everything else. And many others on here have no issues, which suggests it is linked to certain routers and NAS combinations. I have an Asus mesh system.

I might investigate running OpenMediaVault on a Raspberry Pi, with my music on a USB stick, but I’ve not got round to it yet. Others get round the limit by using Plex, but that means you add Plex as a service to Sonos and you are then playing your local library via the cloud. I think. Could be wrong.

“When SMBv1 support was removed for S2 users, I started seeing problems. This was years ago.” To my knowledge SMBv1 was removed from S2 some time after May 8th.

 I don’t understand why the number of folders would cause an index to fail.  My folder structure is Genre-Artist-Album.  I have over 1, 500 classical composers and that’s just the genre Classical.  The index works fine.  My library is in a SonicTransporter i5 NAS.

 If the issue is tagging then that’s a different story.  I keep tags simple.  I only use Artist-Track Name-Album-Track Number-Date-Album Artist.  All other tags that might exist, when the source of the music is a download, are removed.  The Artist & Album Artist tags for Classical are the last name of the composer.  My tagging software is DbPoweramp.

@MoPac let me see if I understand.  You take your entire library through a tagging activity before having them shared?

Which app are you using to share your folder with Sonos (windows, MAC, iOS, etc)?

@sambrosius, Sonos support can see exactly why your index is failing, and can see how many track indexes are used vs. how many tracks you have.  You need to send them a diagnostic after an index failure, then contact them with the reference number.  Speculating here is useless when you have the ability to find out exactly what is causing it to fail. 

How do I get that diagnostic?  I simply get an error. Where is the diagnostic stored?

On another thread I reported the same problem.

“the failure to finish indexing (which other users have reported), seems to be caused by the SMB client (i.e. Sonos) running out of SMB ‘credits’. Once the credits reach zero, the connection is closed and hence why indexing stops - this is most likely a bug. However, if you re-add the SMB share, indexing picks up where it left off. So if you rinse and repeat a few times, eventually it works and you will have your music library back.”

And further on.

“...this is the message in the smb.log file that led me to that conclusion:

“smb2_validate_message_id: client used more credits than granted, mid 132097, credits_granted 0, seqnum low/range: 132097/0”

According to the Samba documentation this should never happen, but lo and behold there it is. I did try to increase (x 2) the credits in the smb.conf file, but it had no effect, indicating a subtle bug somewhere.

And this is only an issue with indexing, it doesn’t affect playback. FYI”

Full thread here 

Ian

sambrosius:

 I’ve been ripping CDs and purchasing downloads for many years.  The tagging software DbPoweramp is setup to only give me the tags I want when a CD is ripped.  For downloads the tags have to be manipulated by me also using DbPoweramp.  I do this as I add new albums to the library.  It was not done because of any Sonos restrictions.  I have only recently purchased Sonos gear.

 I started all this local library stuff back in the Squeezebox days.  Looking at the search options in the control points for Squeezebox and most other server - renderer software there are only so many categories like Album - Artist etc.  So why have tags that are not used in the control point software.

 I also found the best way to not cause search confusion was to make the Artist & Album Artist exactly the same, the exception being compilations.  Being a big fan of modern classical orchestral music I don’t want my Artist to be Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra and my Album Artist Antony Witt.  Instead I make both Artist & Album Artist Lutoslawski.

 I’m not using an app to share my music with Sonos.  The music is in a folder on my SonicTransporter NAS.  I used the Sonos app on a Windows 10 PC to share that folder.   I used “Browse” in the Music Library Settings / Add screen to find the folder in the NAS.  That wrote the proper path for the Music Library.  This was all done before the 80.x app.  After installing 80.x the Library was still available.