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Fabulous New Article: The New Sonos App, Three Months Later

You may remember the extremely informative article “What happened to the Sonos app? A technical analysis” published by Andy Pennel on LinkedIn …

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-happened-sonos-app-technical-analysis-andy-pennell-wigwc

 

Breaking News! Yesterday Andy published a new article “The New Sonos App, Three Months Later” and it is equally fascinating …

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-sonos-app-three-months-later-andy-pennell-vozoc

The new Sonos mobile app is three months old, and one would hope things have gotten better. My original article has been unexpectedly popular, so I thought I'd produce an update on what I think about where it is now. TLDR; N steps forward, N+x steps back.

 

I encourage anyone with technical curiosity to read the new article, which touches on several problems that continue to vex users on these forums.

21 replies

E
Userlevel 2
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Wow.  Andy has written another excellent article.  Looks like Sonos are busy screwing the (speaker side) firmware as well as the (user side) app.

I still can’t understand why Sonos have not just abandoned this new architecture - as I said in another post I think they are just flogging a dead horse by trying to make it work.  The only logical conclusion is that it is either simple pig-headedness, or not understanding the sunk-cost fallacy.

slworona
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[…]

The only logical conclusion is that it is either simple pig-headedness, or not understanding the sunk-cost fallacy.

Not mutually exclusive. In fact, the second explains the first. “The 2024 SONOS Disaster” will certainly be a case study in future MBA lessons on sunk cost. At this point, the only question is whether the lesson will need to start with a description of what SONOS is or what it was.

S
Userlevel 7
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A really great article @controlav 👍🏻

I
Userlevel 6
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Indeed, and I suspect many tech blogs, sites etc. are busy preparing their best buy guides for the run up to the holiday period, and if the likes of the New York Times are already flagging that Sonos can no longer be recommended on the back of the atrocious new software, I’m pretty sure they won’t be alone. 

Sonos will go from being the gold standard to the laughing stock. 

I’d imagine by now that sales staff in stores are getting fed up with disgruntled users returning Sonos gear as not working so will probably for their own sanity recommend other systems where before Sonos would have been the go to sell… 

4th quarter sales will be very interesting, esp. if others follow NYT/Wirecutters lead… 

The damage may already be done, and with basic features now not slated until almost Dec. that could be 7 months of pain inflicted on users. I hope big investors are asking some serious questions around certain board members competence. 

press250
Userlevel 7
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Hi @controlav, during today’s earnings call, Patrick Spence specifically called out “speakers disappearing from customers’ systems” as one of the new app/new firmware problems. I mention this as I believe it is the first corporate recognition that “disappearing devices” is a problem. The fact that it is on their radar—and quite visibly so, as evidenced from it being highlighted—tells me that they are digging into it.

I’ll post a link once a transcript of the earnings call is online. No exaggeration, most of the call was about the new app rollout and its impact.

buzz

There was about a 10% stock price fall in aftermarket trading.

press250
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There was about a 10% stock price fall in aftermarket trading.

Yeah @buzz, the stock was down as much as 13% during the earning call. Sonos disclosed that FY2024 revenue would fall short of expectations due to the new app rollout, from (a) lower sales of existing products and (b) delayed introduction of two new products that are otherwise ready to go. They also disclosed an unforeseen $20-30M in costs—no details were given, to the frustration of the analysts—associated with fixing the new app and new firmware.

R
Userlevel 7
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In case anyone missed the call, here’s the transcript:

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2024/08/08/sonos-sono-q3-2024-earnings-call-transcript/

press250
Userlevel 7
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Thanks for the link to the transcript, @Rhonny. Here are a few interesting quotes … puh-lease do not interpret any of this as piling on ...

 

It's important to note that this was really a redesign of the entire system, not only the app but also the player side of our system as well as our cloud infrastructure.

Important point: the “new architecture” made significant changes to cloud infrastructure, device firmware, and of course the mobile apps. Many times on these forums we overlook the first two.

 

For some [customers], this meant existing speakers missing from their Sonos systems, while others saw latency issues or errors while setting up new products.

Good to see the company recognize two of the more vexing issues. I suspect these hit the company especially hard, manifested by above normal customer returns.

 

The app situation has become a headwind to existing product sales, and we believe our focus needs to be addressing the app ahead of everything else. This means delaying the 2 major new product releases we had planned for Q4.

Two factors here that will negatively impact revenue.

 

One of our Board members, Tom Conrad, has over 30 years of experience in software engineering, and Tom is helping us ensure our software efforts are on the right track as well as providing another expert perspective.

While many will view this as a token move, any time a board member gets involved it is a big deal.

 

We are enacting programs this quarter to both support and thank our customers and partners for sticking with us through this period and turn their dissatisfaction to delight. These programs will run across Q4 and Q1. We expect these investments will come at a cost in the range of $20 million to $30 million in the short term but are necessary to right the ship for the long term. 

This is an new unanticipated spend that will negatively impact earnings.

 

We expect Q4 revenue in the range of $240 million to $260 million. The challenges with our app have had a twofold impact to our Q4 revenue expectations: one, lower sales across our portfolio due to app launch issues; two, the decision to delay the launch of 2 major new products.

Significantly lower Q4 revenue guidance. For reference, 2023 Q4 revenue was $305M.

 

As a result of the reduction to Q4, we expect the revenue in the range of $1.503 billion to $1.523 billion for the full year.

Lower annual guidance. For reference, trailing 12-month revenue was $1.544B.

 

 

R
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“Programs to thank our customers for sticking with us” sounds to me like significant price promos for existing customers (no wonder if will all add up as part of the unanticipated spend). 

Hmm. I wonder whether the level of reward will be proportionate to the all-time ranking on the Sonos forum..?? 😉

slworona
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One of our Board members, Tom Conrad, has over 30 years of experience in software engineering, and Tom is helping us ensure our software efforts are on the right track as well as providing another expert perspective.

While many will view this as a token move, any time a board member gets involved it is a big deal.

 

Boards and board members differ greatly in how active/passive they are. Case study: Fox and the Dominion lawsuit. (Ignore the politics!) In this case, SONOS investors might well wonder why, if the Board did, indeed, have a competent software engineer as a member, why that person didn’t raise questions (to cite just one exampe) about how the new system had been tested before rollout. No, no, no, I’m not finger-pointing at Conrad or anyone else, just noting that corporate responsibility isn’t supposed to stop at the CEO. There’s no shortage of blame to go around here, and the SONOS Board must take its share.

slworona
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“Programs to thank our customers for sticking with us” sounds to me like significant price promos for existing customers (no wonder if will all add up as part of the unanticipated spend). 

Hmm. I wonder whether the level of reward will be proportionate to the all-time ranking on the Sonos forum..?? 😉

Now, there’s an interesting line of thought. Let’s see, I supposed fairness demands that the rewards should be proportionate to the amount of lost function, lost time, hassle, and general stress experienced by customers whose systems were made non/dysfunctional by the SONOS screwup. Thus, people like me who never moved to S2 from S1 and people like (well, I won’t name names) whose S2 systems continued to work flawlessly through the debacle should get nothing. Seems right to me.

R
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@slworona 

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

slworona
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@slworona

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

Absolutely! Fill the Board with as many knowledgeable SONOS users as possible, and hope that they’ll be aggressive in overseeing future system changes!

press250
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Your creativity is impressive @Rhonny!

I gotta’ go with documenting and reporting bugs (that are subsequently acknowledged as such). Total coincidence that I have three of those in the past month! 😅

almazri
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@slworona

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

Would no longer be thankless and selfless. There are no rewards for martyrs especially martyrs in their own minds. 

R
Userlevel 7
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@slworona

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

Would no longer be thankless and selfless. There are no rewards for martyrs especially martyrs in their own minds. 

okee dokee.

F
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Andy Pennel the author of these LinkedIn articles, a.k.a. @controlav, is keeping an unofficial bug tracker on GitHub. Create your tickets, guys!

https://github.com/amp64/sonosbugtracker

I
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@slworona

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

Here’s a thought, maybe you get the most abuse (along with a couple of others that spring to mind) because you continually make out all is well, and it’s people’s networks that are the big issue. Then if they aren’t willing to do Sonos’ job for them and spend hours debugging only to be told it’ll be fixed later in a software update, they’re told that they don’t deserve help…

In my book, that’s the complete opposite of helpful.Aalong with commenting in a ‘lawsuit’ thread that you had no interest other than to enjoy watching. Sometimes, silence is the best option. 

R
Userlevel 7
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@slworona

Or perhaps those of us who have 1) helped the most people to rectify issues over this period, thanklessly and selflessly, and 2) had to suffer the most abuse for having a fully working system should be promoted to the board? How about that?

Here’s a thought, maybe you get the most abuse (along with a couple of others that spring to mind) because you continually make out all is well, and it’s people’s networks that are the big issue. Then if they aren’t willing to do Sonos’ job for them and spend hours debugging only to be told it’ll be fixed later in a software update, they’re told that they don’t deserve help…

In my book, that’s the complete opposite of helpful.Aalong with commenting in a ‘lawsuit’ thread that you had no interest other than to enjoy watching. Sometimes, silence is the best option. 

 

I have NEVER made out all is well.

I have said

  1. that my system works well, so proving the app is not a blanket failure (it’s not my fault it works, by the way - I have had to do nothing to have it work, and yet no-one has ever enquired as to how my very basic, ordinary network is set up such that I do have a fully working system - people would rather be annoyed with me that I don’t have issues);
  1. that I am not a Sonos apologist. They made a massive error with the release of the app - I have never once said they were right to do that, nor have I ever defended them. People seem to be confused that when I disagree with them that I am automatically supporting Sonos. I can be annoyed at Sonos AND the general public at the same time, it’s not an either/or;
  1. that I have been very happy and willing to help people, as evidence by my ‘best answer’ rate - but only those who are willing to help themselves. Anyone else who comes on here to moan but is not even open to looking into potential fixes IN LIEU OF the fixed app does not deserve any help. I have repeatedly agreed that no-one should have to make any adjustments, or have any IT knowledge to get Sonos to work - but it is always worth having a tweak if someone can advise, to see if things might work, rather than folding arms and venting, and putting up further with a system that doesn’t work. I think half the time people’s lack of confidence in their own ability to adjust things comes back at me as aggression. What has anyone got to lose by trying an adjustment or two?

That said, commenting on the lawsuit threads is fair game.

I
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You may remember the extremely informative article “What happened to the Sonos app? A technical analysis” published by Andy Pennel on LinkedIn …

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-happened-sonos-app-technical-analysis-andy-pennell-wigwc

 

Breaking News! Yesterday Andy published a new article “The New Sonos App, Three Months Later” and it is equally fascinating …

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-sonos-app-three-months-later-andy-pennell-vozoc

The new Sonos mobile app is three months old, and one would hope things have gotten better. My original article has been unexpectedly popular, so I thought I'd produce an update on what I think about where it is now. TLDR; N steps forward, N+x steps back.

 

I encourage anyone with technical curiosity to read the new article, which touches on several problems that continue to vex users on these forums.

Going to chime in here with my limited networking issue solving, from years ago.

In around 2010’s we shipped pre-configured VDSL routers to my companies staff for working from home. Used Netgear DG384 routers at first, then Draytek 2700 series, all worked fine, home users had home Internet and a VPN connection to work. Never had any complaints.

Then moved to Draytek 2750 & “2760 Linux” and all types of funnies occurred. Also seen with first Linksys Linux base routers WAG54. 

Basically they didn’t let the router to pass corrupted IP packets (or what they thought were corrupted) between LAN and WAN and LAN and WiFi. Wouldn’t route WiFi VPN data to WAN 100% just lost packets and often refused to let pass the last packets of a  VPN TCP/IP block. DNS (and possibly mDNS) issues, packets just dropped and lost, so had to do multiple DNS lookups. Spent ages looking WireShark logs. Fiddling with IPTABLEs improved things but not as good as before.

Replacing with later Draytek home routers 2760 series and all was fine no reported issues what so ever.

So have people got issues with the latest Sonos networking with their setups silently dropping network packets ?
 

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