Does Apple Music Lossless play through the Sonos Port?

Not an Apple Musoc user, but today I learned my Sub Gen 2 would prohibit my Arc Ultra from playing Apple lossless……..

However, content available in Spatial/Atmos format from Apple Music is supported with the Arc+Sub G2, which is arguably a better music format for the Arc speaker design, ie immersive.

If the Sub restriction is similar to the restriction of Ultra HD from Amazon Music, then it would only apply to individual or stereo pairs, not when bonded with a soundbar that supports Apple Music Lossless.

Yes that appears to be the case.  I see Apple Lossless icon with my Arc Ultra, ERA300s and Sub G2

Although I don’t normally play Apple Music on Arc+SubG2, I just tried and also get the ‘eye candy’ lossless logo. ​@106rallye , that’s at least 2 people that have learnt something new today. 😀

Thank you. That would be a welcome addition to the manual page then.

So if i understand it, the sonos port playes nativ apple music, ( local) in hi-res (no streaming from iphone to the sonos port) and i can use the rca output to connect to my old pre-amp?

A preamp is used to get a line level signal from a turntable to an amplifier. A Port already provides a line level signal so is designed to be connected to an amplifier, not a preamp.

Thanks for your reply. I understand — the signal from the Sonos Port will go to my preamp (where I have a left and right line-in), and then to my amplifier. All good.

What I’m particularly interested in is Lossless audio and Apple Music. When you add your Apple Music account to the Sonos app on your iPhone, you can see your Apple Music library there.

So my question is:

Am I streaming from my iPhone to the Sonos Port, or does the Sonos Port stream Apple Music natively (on the device itself)?

And if it does, is it in Lossless quality?

Thanks!

I’m not convinced, based on your post, that you do understand. Or, perhaps, we are not understanding your system.

The Port outputs a line level output. A pre-Amp is looking for a phono level input.  The output from a Sonos Port is many times too loud for a pre-Amp, it should go directly to an amplifier’s line level input (not the input labeled ‘phono’). 

Here is a good reference between Phono and Line levels.

Unless we are talking about some other type (very rare) of pre-amp, the only thing that should be plugged in to the pre-amp is a turntable set on ‘phono’, if it even has such a switch.

Can you tell us which pre-amp you’re referring to?

Oh, and half of your answer to your direct questions. Yes, the Sonos Port plays Apple Music via the Sonos interface (using the controller). No need to use AirPlay 2. 

No clue offhand if it does so losslessly, I suppose that would be a question Apple could answer, since they feed the data stream to Sonos to play. Given my ears, I’ve not heard a significant difference between lossless and ‘normal’ streams, I look at it as a marketing scheme to get more money from ‘audiophiles’, who tend to be dazzled by those claims, rather than relying on their own ears. 

What I’m really looking for is a way to play Apple Music in lossless or hi-res quality through my old-school NAD preamp from the ’90s.

The problem is, most streaming devices — like BluOS, etc. — don’t support Apple Music natively on the device itself. Instead, they rely on AirPlay from an iPhone, which means you’re not getting true lossless audio (since AirPlay is limited to 16-bit/44.1kHz max and is compressed).

I want a solution where the box itself logs into Apple Music and streams directly, in lossless or hi-res, without relying on my phone as the source. So far, I haven’t found a clean solution for that.

​@Sandemannn 

Apple Music can be added as a music service directly to your Sonos system and supports lossless playback up to 24 bit 48 kHz. So you can use the Sonos S2 app as a remote to browse Apple Music und stream directly from Apples servers via Sonos api to your Sonos speakers and also to a Sonos Port. 
 

Sonos Port is able to output the signal digital via coax connection or analogue via rca. The quality of Ports DA conversion imho is quite good.

So yes, you can use Ports line out signal on a line in of your pre amp as it’s not a dedicated phono pre amp but a classic hifi pre amp with several analogue inputs (line in) that can be used in combination with old school pure amplifiers. A headphones pre amp (also with line in) would be another use case for such a solution. 
 

The only way to get better Apple Music lossless quality to your pre amp will be a wired connection from your iPhone to an external dac that supports up to 24 bit 192 kHz conversion. But I doubt you would hear that difference. 

Audio terminology is very sloppy. In the old days a “preamp” or “preamplifier” was a multi-input device that would be connected to a “power amplifier”. The preamp controlled the system with its input selector, Volume, and Tone controls. Back then wireless remote controls were an impractical concept rarely imagined for the future. The preamp output cannot be directly connected to speakers. The preamp output was connected as the input to a “power amplifier” that could drive the speakers, but had only an ON/OFF switch. Preamps had a special input for turntables called “Phono”.  Phono inputs provide frequency response “equalization” unique to and required by records. The signal level out of a turntable is very low compared to other signal sources and the Phono input dealt with that too. Back in the day virtually everyone had a turntable to play their records. There were and still are “integrated amplifiers” that contain the preamplifier and power amplifier functions in a single box. Unfortunately, integrated amplifiers and power amplifiers are often both referred to as “amps”.

Fast forward a few decades and Phono input capability is being removed from audio gear. While I don’t know the percentage, I assume that ‘turntable’ is perceived as a senseless, old fashioned, expensive device by the masses because it is assumed that all music can be streamed. However, there is still a market segment that wants to play records. Actually, in my area there are newly opened record shops.

On a majority of current audio gear there is no input that can deal with a traditional turntable. An external “Phono Preamp” is required to deal with this. Unfortunately, too often we refer to such a device as a “preamp”. A Phono Preamp has a single input that is dedicated to processing turntable input and there is no Volume control. The output is known as “line level” and is similar to the output of CD players, VCR’s, Tuners, Cassette Decks, and such.

Currently, most of the lower end turntables include a phono preamp and can output a line level signal. Vintage turntables virtually never included a phono preamp. Current high end turntables rarely include a phono preamp because those customers want to choose the ultimate phono preamp separately.

Bottom line for SONOS users is that a SONOS Line-In accepts only a line level signal input. A turntable must contain its own phono preamp or an external phono preamp must be inserted between the turntable and the SONOS Line-In.

Still curious if this is indeed a preamp, to which you cannot connect a Sonos Port, or an amp, to which you can. Is there a number on the NAD that would tell us what it is?

thanks that is the answer, thanks a lot!

​@buzz 

Great summary for those not comming from the old days. 😉

Here two examples…

First a modern pre amp - amp set even without a phono input but optical and usb next to line in.

And another retro set supporting so many (just analogue) useful options including even two phono inputs. 😎

Back in the day, we had a setup with a preamp, a turntable, a cassette deck, and a CD player — all connected to the preamp. Then the RCA output from the preamp would go to the power amp, making it a two-component system. The amp, in turn, drove the loudspeakers.

Like @buzz explained, I want to connect the Sonos Port to the preamp (line out from the Port to line in on the preamp). It’s all clear to me now — I can control my Apple Music library from my phone, and the Sonos Port will handle the playback.

Just like @Schlumpf mentioned in his post. NICE :-)

thanks for all your replies

Schlumpf wrote:

​@buzz 

Great summary for those not comming from the old days. 😉

Here two examples…

First a modern pre amp - amp set even without a phono input but optical and usb next to line in.

And another retro set supporting so many (just analogue) useful options including even two phono inputs. 😎

 

correct :-)