The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

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M
Userlevel 4
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To me it is useful only as a reinforcement to an assurance that even if Sonos were to go belly up, line in equipped Sonos hardware would keep going on. Supplied by devices like echo that would also do things like grouping multiple units. Trade up isn't available in India and I do not expect it ever will be and I don't have any strong feelings about that - if any, these are of being happy it will never come, we have enough issues with trash management. 

 

Amazon would cut the cord in that case, just as any other service currently available on Sonos would.

Except the line in on the sonos would be agnostic to any service.  It would just play what was coming out of the line out of the echo/google home/cd player etc.  (an electrical signal of a specific voltage?)That is,  of course, as long as the sonos could boot up and use it's line input.

M
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

I think more and more I am heading in the direction of replacing my sonos/amazon echo environment with an Amazon echo only environment with dumb amp and speakers and cheap echo dots as the "smarts".

I currently only have 3 modern sonos products which I could still sell for a reasonable return.  I already have 5 echo dots which I paid a total of less than 200 dollars for so if Amazon pulls a similar move, I am not worried about the expense and I can just replace again with another competitor.

I can remove the sonos connect from my vintage audio system and connect an echo dot line out to my receiver.

The one area I have to figure out is in the living room.  I have a pair of play ones on either side of the tv which I just use for music.  They sound pretty good and I love the compact size.  I don't want large speakers there.  I am thinking if I could find an absolutely dumb sound bar with similar sound qualities to a pair of play ones I will likely make the move.  I want dumb as in no WiFi connection, no web site and no accounts required.  Amp and speakers in the simple form of a sound bar that can sit under my tv.  Would connect to an echo dot via line in and added bonus of an HDMI input for the tv.  No idea yet what product that will be.

The echo environment doesn't play locally stored music but I am getting more ok with that as well.  Just as Netflix has replaced my DVD viewing, streaming has replaced my local albums on my nas. 

I am becoming more and more ok with all of this.  I no longer see a reason to pay premium prices for Sonos.  Just got to find a dumb sound bar with good enough sound quality for music listening.

K

@Smilja you don't get it; Amazon would not even know what their echo device is wired to.

@MikeOinToronto all presently available information and logic says it would boot up.

Smilja

Except the line in on the sonos would be agnostic to any service.  It would just play what was coming out of the line out of the echo/google home/cd player etc.  (an electrical signal of a specific voltage?)That is,  of course, as long as the sonos could boot up and use it's line input.

 

When the actual loudspeaker is no longer working, how would you hear/receive Alexa’s voice output? Remember, Sonos players in Recycle Mode are no longer able to establish a connection to the Sonos system; re-directing the output via the Autoplay feature to another unit will be impossible.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
C
Userlevel 6
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The echo environment doesn't play locally stored music but I am getting more ok with that as well.  Just as Netflix has replaced my DVD viewing, streaming has replaced my local albums on my nas. 

 

It does if you install the MyMediaforAlexa skill ...

J
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

I’m gonna stick my 2 penneth in here, and I will state these are all suppositions on my part.

I also apologise if this has been covered before as I have not fully read this thread but…...

Let’s take the Play 5 for example - in modular form it’s some woofers and tweeters, an amp, and a CPU and Ethernet / WIFI board.

In ‘normal use’, to use the line in, the CPU detects a signal and then the user has an option in the Sonos controller to select that input.

I would guess that any Play 5 by default (whatever state its in) will not play anything from that line in source unless it is part of a Sonos system.

I think the trade up program stinks - yes, there’s lots of talk of recycling responsibly but who knows what happens once the ‘defunct’ Play 5 is dropped at the local recycling centre. Or, who knows whether some users can’t be bothered and chuck their old Play 5s in to the bin for landfill / incineration?

To me, the elegant way out of this for Sonos is if that Play 5 is put in to recycle mode, simply send a code change that allows it to act as an active speaker for users to connect a phone / cd player / Echo or whatever via line in and keep using it or pass it on to people who can use it - but it will no longer be part of the Sonos system.

 

Smilja

@johngolfuk, come May, ‘legacy devices’ will no longer receive firmware updates apart from bug fixes/security updates, but they will continue to work as they do today. The trade-up offer is optional.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
K

Except the line in on the sonos would be agnostic to any service.  It would just play what was coming out of the line out of the echo/google home/cd player etc.  (an electrical signal of a specific voltage?)That is,  of course, as long as the sonos could boot up and use it's line input.

 

When the actual loudspeaker is no longer working, how would you hear/receive Alexa’s voice output? Remember, Sonos players in Recycle Mode are no longer able to establish a connection to the Sonos system; re-directing the output via the Autoplay feature to another unit will be impossible.

To clarify for anyone else reading the quoted:

We are not talking about players in recycle mode.  We are talking about Connect Amps that have stopped receiving any support from Sonos - no bug fixes, and even if Sonos goes belly up and its servers go offline. Even then, where a Connect Amp has been configured to be a dumb speaker with a Echo Dot as its brain and music source, it will continue to work if it has been set to Autoplay Line In before any calamity, till the hardware dies.

And if two such Connect Amps/Connects/5 units have been set up, wiring a Echo to each will allow all to play music in perfect sync by using the Alexa app to set up the Echo devices as multi room groups. That bit, I have tested and found that it works as well as Sonos multi room music play, with some features that are lacking but some that Sonos lacks. But the basic function works as well as it does via Sonos controllers.

My probing towards testing the Line In on recycled players was to get an assurance that what I have written above is possible. I have now received that assurance. For me personally, using recycled players even as paper weights isn't possible, I have no access to such units in India.

K

In ‘normal use’, to use the line in, the CPU detects a signal and then the user has an option in the Sonos controller to select that input.

I would guess that any Play 5 by default (whatever state its in) will not play anything from that line in source unless it is part of a Sonos system.

I think the trade up program stinks - yes, there’s lots of talk of recycling responsibly but who knows what happens once the ‘defunct’ Play 5 is dropped at the local recycling centre. Or, who knows whether some users can’t be bothered and chuck their old Play 5s in to the bin for landfill / incineration?

To me, the elegant way out of this for Sonos is if that Play 5 is put in to recycle mode, simply send a code change that allows it to act as an active speaker for users to connect a phone / cd player / Echo or whatever via line in and keep using it or pass it on to people who can use it - but it will no longer be part of the Sonos system.

 

@johngolfuk - Caveat: I am as tight as any Yorkshireman.

To your first, the controller can be used to set the Line In on any unit to Autoplay. Once that is done, the music play is automatic as soon as the Line In senses a signal. Even if all other units in the system are missing, Sonos net is off, and WiFi is off. All that is needed is mains power to the Sonos unit and the signal at the Line In jacks.

I agree 100 % with your remaining points. 

I will only expand your last paragraph. What you have suggested is part of my suggestion to Spence in an email to him a week ago. The other part of the suggestion was to keep the 30% discount, but discard the “send to recycle after bricking” stunt - I see that as hot air and sales promotion hidden under a feigned care for the planet. So I told him: dump that bit going forward.

Obviously, that will rile people that fell for the promotion and got their units to die prematurely - it is the human thing around something that satisfied you in the past leaving you feeling like you were robbed because others are now getting a better deal. In the larger picture of what a revision in the scheme will do for rehabilitating the lost Sonos reputation and more importantly, for the environment, the gripes of these folk are trivial. The problem for them with your last elegant bit is - the units are no longer with them!

K

Thought for the day - a thread title elsewhere in the community, copied verbatim, thanks to @Komobo , the thread starter.

Obsolescence doesn't have to mean obsolete.

 

K

Over the last ten days the community has been polarised like never before in my experience of it since 2011. 

I just picked up a very interesting and pithy post on another thread that very well describes the fault line dividing the pro and anti Sonos factions, which is copy/pasted in full below:
At the end of the day, however, Sonos speakers are computers, driven by software that runs on each speaker.

Those that subscribe to this thinking, remain pro Sonos. Those that do not, are anti (I know some may pop up and say they are neither, but I reckon that is very small number now, the fence sitters).

I was and even today am an evangelist for the Sonos feature set and sound quality, but overall, since I do not subscribe to this statement, I am in the anti camp; I see Sonos as boxes that make music that are more intelligent than my legacy HiFi, and more convenient by being able to do their job wirelessly, and offer a lot more music via access to the net - but still music making boxes at the end of the day.

Just the way I will not see any future web enabled fridge as a computer driven by software that runs on the fridge compressor. Or a microprocessor controlled air con as a computer that does similar. All these products happen to have computers of different types and capabilites in them; they are NOT computers themselves.

But here is the irony - my computer, that is just a computer, was bought in 2014, still works with 2011 router hardware and has just updated itself to the latest OS that also drives the 2020 models. I am sure there is hardware lurking in the 2020 computers that mine does not have that will do more, but I don't miss it as long as mine keeps doing all it did in 2014. Till it, or the router hardware, dies.

Sonos, that isn't a pure computer to the extent mine is, does not however seem able to emulate mine for longevity - which by the way is from the much vilified in this community Apple.

This is speculation, but I suspect that Sonos will not be too happy to be described in the quoted manner. 

K

A post aimed @Ryan S :

It is clear now that there are plenty of ways for the user base to easily go forward through and beyond May; even if these are limited to those ways that coalesce around what will be a Sonos redeemer - the Line In jacks. And by a happy coincidence for every one, all legacy products have these.

While I understand the reasoning for a comprehensive May information release, are you not missing an opportunity of making an interim release just around the various ways that these Line In jacks can be exploited over different time horizons? A bunch of ordinary users have unearthed some decent ones on this thread; Sonos must have some more that can be added to these in an limited content information package that can be released to every registered user, a set that must contain many times the number that have posted in the community in all the threads put together.

Or do you prefer the drip drip drip of user speculation and solution discovery to continue in a small place like this, while the larger part of the user base comes to its own conclusions before May dawns?

Yes, such a release may involve some eating of humble pie if it includes - as I think it must - ways in which Echos can be the brains of dumbed down legacy Sonos speakers in worst case scenarios; is that such a big deal that it overrides interests of users at large out there in the real world?

Are you missing a trick here? I don't expect a reply here, this is something for Sonos to consider and act upon as it thinks fit.

R
Userlevel 5
Badge +7

I know I would feel much better about Sonos going forward if they created a reasonably cheap bridge device to do this.  

@MikeOinToronto

This echoes what someone in the vent thread has suggested as well:

The “box” attaches to both the legacy network and the update capable network. Call it “Bridge 2” 

What this box has to do - since legacy products are allegedly not capable of doing - is to receive music streams from one system and hand it off to the other. That’s it - a little WiFi dongle that is version less and therefore never to be upgraded; ideally it should go directly into a main socket.  And Sonos should give it away free to any account that has a split system registered to it. 

And instead of coming out and giving “n” number of reasons why this cannot be done, the direction should be towards making it happen. 

But the “can do” attitude seems to be missing from Sonos these days; but I have a solution that also gives me album art, so I really don't care any more.

 

@Kumar, the above vision of a cheap streamer is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my waffly earlier post up-thread:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index11.html#post16400572

 

“Folks here are looking at using cheap stuff like Echos and Chromecasts that can be plugged into (older) Sonos speakers or other devices possessing line-in sockets, but in Sonos’ shoes I’d be looking at addressing this customer need themselves by offering their own low-cost streaming devices that can be connected to Sonos speaker networks, ie. not physically plugged in, so not requiring line-in sockets. As has been mentioned numerous times here already, Amazon & Google’s pricing has indicated the absurdity of Sonos’s pricing for its Connect/Port type devices. NB an off-board Sonos streaming device of the type I imagine would need to be a fraction of that legacy pricing.

This ‘vision’ has Sonos positioning itself as a vendor of high quality, durable networked speaker systems that insulates you from fast-changing Internet-facing tech for as long as possible. This ‘insulation’ enables you to spend freely on high quality speakers secure in the knowledge they will endure, while knowing there’s a means (at reasonable future expense) of addressing the aspects of the system (such as Internet-facing, streamers, voice) that’ll date more rapidly and have a shorter lifespan.”

 

The idea being that once the on-board speaker “smart” tech (ie. Internet-facing streaming stuff, plus voice, airplay etc, all the stuff that’s in flux and requires more grunt.) is superseded, that functionality is offloaded to a new, cheap Sonos networked device/(devices) that performs those modern functions requiring the extra horsepower, while having the speakers continue to behave as dumb networked speakers having outsourced the rest of the “smarts” to the new device(s).

 

With that approach, you could probably squeeze another 2nd lifetime out of the speakers, and bridge legacy to modern. If there was a will. Which there isn’t!

K

With that approach, you could probably squeeze another 2nd lifetime out of the speakers, and bridge legacy to modern. If there was a will. Which there isn’t!

@RDog : There are many approaches to this impasse, that negotiate a way past it. Sonos is best placed to construct what would be the most elegant one - if there was a will, which does seem to be lacking.

Or who knows, they may surprise us all - pleasantly - by producing a rabbit out of their hat in May.

For now it is safe to assume that they will not, and to put together a solution that can be implemented that is perhaps not so elegant - like wired Echo Dots to line in devices sitting in both systems, as one example. 

melvimbe

I know I would feel much better about Sonos going forward if they created a reasonably cheap bridge device to do this.  

@MikeOinToronto

This echoes what someone in the vent thread has suggested as well:

The “box” attaches to both the legacy network and the update capable network. Call it “Bridge 2” 

What this box has to do - since legacy products are allegedly not capable of doing - is to receive music streams from one system and hand it off to the other. That’s it - a little WiFi dongle that is version less and therefore never to be upgraded; ideally it should go directly into a main socket.  And Sonos should give it away free to any account that has a split system registered to it. 

And instead of coming out and giving “n” number of reasons why this cannot be done, the direction should be towards making it happen. 

But the “can do” attitude seems to be missing from Sonos these days; but I have a solution that also gives me album art, so I really don't care any more.

 

@Kumar, the above vision of a cheap streamer is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my waffly earlier post up-thread:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index11.html#post16400572

 

“Folks here are looking at using cheap stuff like Echos and Chromecasts that can be plugged into (older) Sonos speakers or other devices possessing line-in sockets, but in Sonos’ shoes I’d be looking at addressing this customer need themselves by offering their own low-cost streaming devices that can be connected to Sonos speaker networks, ie. not physically plugged in, so not requiring line-in sockets. As has been mentioned numerous times here already, Amazon & Google’s pricing has indicated the absurdity of Sonos’s pricing for its Connect/Port type devices.

 

 

Amazon and Google are able to charge such low prices for their products because they are not looking to make a profit from product sales.  They use their products to get you locked into their ecosystem, spending money on their services and increasing the value of the information they have about you and how you use tech.

 

Look at it this way.  If Echos suddenly branched off from the rest of Amazon and all their business lines, do you think echo dots would continue to be sold at such cheap prices?

 

 

 

NB an off-board Sonos streaming device of the type I imagine would need to be a fraction of that legacy pricing.

 

 

I seriously doubt it could be done cheaply.   There would be a significant cost to develop, test, and manufacture the streaming device you’re referring to.  And it would only have to worth to a very small market, those that have legacy devices and want to continue using them.  If Sonos did make the device you speak of more generic and usable with other products besides Sonos, then it would essentially be a cheap Port.  That would not only undercut the sales of the Port, but it would hurt the sales of all Sonos products.

 

This ‘vision’ has Sonos positioning itself as a vendor of high quality, durable networked speaker systems that insulates you from fast-changing Internet-facing tech for as long as possible. This ‘insulation’ enables you to spend freely on high quality speakers secure in the knowledge they will endure, while knowing there’s a means (at reasonable future expense) of addressing the aspects of the system (such as Internet-facing, streamers, voice) that’ll date more rapidly and have a shorter lifespan.”

 

 

I don’t  know that this fully fits the market, as I think a lot of customers will want to upgrade their speaker quality, not just the smarts behind it.  As an example,  it’s quite possible that the next version of the playbar won’t just be improved smarts but improved speakers as well.  At least I hope so.  Even then, people may want a new playbar just for a more modern looking speaker.

 

 

The idea being that once the on-board speaker “smart” tech (ie. Internet-facing streaming stuff, plus voice, airplay etc, all the stuff that’s in flux and requires more grunt.) is superseded, that functionality is offloaded to a new, cheap Sonos networked device/(devices) that performs those modern functions requiring the extra horsepower, while having the speakers continue to behave as dumb networked speakers having outsourced the rest of the “smarts” to the new device(s).

 

With that approach, you could probably squeeze another 2nd lifetime out of the speakers, and bridge legacy to modern. If there was a will. Which there isn’t!

 

I get your point and I’m not saying it’s a bad idea.  I just think you’re making a lot of assumptions regarding what consumers actually want and will pay for, as well as what can be manufactured and priced in such a way that can sustain an independent company like Sonos.  Maybe you’re correct and the numbers all work behind the scenes, but there are lots of reasons to think that it might not.

Danny
M
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

I know I would feel much better about Sonos going forward if they created a reasonably cheap bridge device to do this.  

@MikeOinToronto

This echoes what someone in the vent thread has suggested as well:

The “box” attaches to both the legacy network and the update capable network. Call it “Bridge 2” 

What this box has to do - since legacy products are allegedly not capable of doing - is to receive music streams from one system and hand it off to the other. That’s it - a little WiFi dongle that is version less and therefore never to be upgraded; ideally it should go directly into a main socket.  And Sonos should give it away free to any account that has a split system registered to it. 

And instead of coming out and giving “n” number of reasons why this cannot be done, the direction should be towards making it happen. 

But the “can do” attitude seems to be missing from Sonos these days; but I have a solution that also gives me album art, so I really don't care any more.

 

@Kumar, the above vision of a cheap streamer is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my waffly earlier post up-thread:

https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-pragmatic-ways-past-it-6836056/index11.html#post16400572

 

“Folks here are looking at using cheap stuff like Echos and Chromecasts that can be plugged into (older) Sonos speakers or other devices possessing line-in sockets, but in Sonos’ shoes I’d be looking at addressing this customer need themselves by offering their own low-cost streaming devices that can be connected to Sonos speaker networks, ie. not physically plugged in, so not requiring line-in sockets. As has been mentioned numerous times here already, Amazon & Google’s pricing has indicated the absurdity of Sonos’s pricing for its Connect/Port type devices.

 

 

Amazon and Google are able to charge such low prices for their products because they are not looking to make a profit from product sales.  They use their products to get you locked into their ecosystem, spending money on their services and increasing the value of the information they have about you and how you use tech.

 

Look at it this way.  If Echos suddenly branched off from the rest of Amazon and all their business lines, do you think echo dots would continue to be sold at such cheap prices?

 

 

 

NB an off-board Sonos streaming device of the type I imagine would need to be a fraction of that legacy pricing.

 

 

I seriously doubt it could be done cheaply.   There would be a significant cost to develop, test, and manufacture the streaming device you’re referring to.  And it would only have to worth to a very small market, those that have legacy devices and want to continue using them.  If Sonos did make the device you speak of more generic and usable with other products besides Sonos, then it would essentially be a cheap Port.  That would not only undercut the sales of the Port, but it would hurt the sales of all Sonos products.

 

This ‘vision’ has Sonos positioning itself as a vendor of high quality, durable networked speaker systems that insulates you from fast-changing Internet-facing tech for as long as possible. This ‘insulation’ enables you to spend freely on high quality speakers secure in the knowledge they will endure, while knowing there’s a means (at reasonable future expense) of addressing the aspects of the system (such as Internet-facing, streamers, voice) that’ll date more rapidly and have a shorter lifespan.”

 

 

I don’t  know that this fully fits the market, as I think a lot of customers will want to upgrade their speaker quality, not just the smarts behind it.  As an example,  it’s quite possible that the next version of the playbar won’t just be improved smarts but improved speakers as well.  At least I hope so.  Even then, people may want a new playbar just for a more modern looking speaker.

 

 

The idea being that once the on-board speaker “smart” tech (ie. Internet-facing streaming stuff, plus voice, airplay etc, all the stuff that’s in flux and requires more grunt.) is superseded, that functionality is offloaded to a new, cheap Sonos networked device/(devices) that performs those modern functions requiring the extra horsepower, while having the speakers continue to behave as dumb networked speakers having outsourced the rest of the “smarts” to the new device(s).

 

With that approach, you could probably squeeze another 2nd lifetime out of the speakers, and bridge legacy to modern. If there was a will. Which there isn’t!

 

I get your point and I’m not saying it’s a bad idea.  I just think you’re making a lot of assumptions regarding what consumers actually want and will pay for, as well as what can be manufactured and priced in such a way that can sustain an independent company like Sonos.  Maybe you’re correct and the numbers all work behind the scenes, but there are lots of reasons to think that it might not.

I believe you are making valid points on all this.  Amazon and Google can make cheap disposable products that are loss leaders.  Sonos differentiated itself by making more expensive, long lasting products and a customer can choose to buy cheap and disposable or expensive and long lasting.  Can sonos really expect customers to buy expensive disposable products to keep the company profitable.

You use the example that a cheaper port would be against their own interest.  Yes.  But customers don't care about making sonos richer, they are buying a product.  Was it Steve Jobs who once said better to eat your own lunch than have a competitor eat it for you.  More expensive and long lasting can benefit both a company and its customers.  Expensive and disposable only benefits the company at the expense of the customer.  I doubt many customers here would pay more to keep executives in six and seven figure salaries if there is nothing in it for them.

melvimbe

I believe you are making valid points on all this.  Amazon and Google can make cheap disposable products that are loss leaders.  Sonos differentiated itself by making more expensive, long lasting products and a customer can choose to buy cheap and disposable or expensive and long lasting.  Can sonos really expect customers to buy expensive disposable products to keep the company profitable.

You use the example that a cheaper port would be against their own interest.  Yes.  But customers don't care about making sonos richer, they are buying a product.  Was it Steve Jobs who once said better to eat your own lunch than have a competitor eat it for you.  More expensive and long lasting can benefit both a company and its customers.  Expensive and disposable only benefits the company at the expense of the customer.  I doubt many customers here would pay more to keep executives in six and seven figure salaries if there is nothing in it for them.

 

I’m sure others will disagree, but I don’t think of Sonos, or other tech related products to be disposable.  They have a useful life, absolutely, but I see a lot of room between traditional AV equipment that will last 20+ years, and paper towels at the supermarket.

 

I don’t think Sonos intentionally made products they expected to only last 5 years.  Most of their stuff has lasted much longer than that.  And I think they are aware that customers on’t like their price point if 5 years is all they ever get out of them.  

 

As far as Sonos being a rich company, I could be mis-remembering, but I don’t think they’ve even turned a profit in their history yet. And I can’t say definitively that they are overpaying their employees and executives compared to other tech companies.

Danny
J
Userlevel 6
Badge +5

In ‘normal use’, to use the line in, the CPU detects a signal and then the user has an option in the Sonos controller to select that input.I would guess that any Play 5 by default (whatever state its in) will not play anything from that line in source unless it is part of a Sonos system.

 

@johngolfuk - Caveat: I am as tight as any Yorkshireman.

To your first, the controller can be used to set the Line In on any unit to Autoplay. Once that is done, the music play is automatic as soon as the Line In senses a signal. Even if all other units in the system are missing, Sonos net is off, and WiFi is off. All that is needed is mains power to the Sonos unit and the signal at the Line In jacks.

 

Ha! Trust me to pick a product that I don’t own and have no knowledge of as an example!

All my Sonos gear that has line-in is proper vintage stuff - we are talking a pair each of ZP80s and ZP100s, all nearly 15 years old.

I looked at my Sonos controller (V8.4) and there is no autoplay option for me so I think this is only a feature of the newer line-in units?

Nonetheless, it doesn’t affect me as I am where I am software-wise.

Interestingly, a Play 5 openly advertised as being in recycle mode has just sold on eBay UK for £33.50 plus £6.49 delivery - with 7 different bidders going for it!

As to people who had already traded up and, ahem, ‘recycled’ their products, would they be riled if Sonos implemented the line-in code change to turn, say, a Play 5 in to an active speaker?

I’m not sure that they would be - after all, I assume their reasons for upgrading are either fear factor following the announcement or they were after new kit anyway and saw the 30% as a good incentive. Either way, they still want all their Sonos kit to work in harmony and a modded / bricked recycle mode Play 5 wouldn’t fit in to that scheme…..

And for that reason, and getting back on to topic, I don’t see a problem in discussing these ideas here, nor would I hardly call it fraudulent for someone not to throw their speaker away as part of the trade up program.

Sorry Ken, there is absolutely no need to remove any posts. Sonos are getting extra sales when people trade up and I’m sure they don’t really care whether the bricked unit is ‘recycled responsibly’or not - it makes not a jot of difference to them.

PS - Digressing again, there is also for sale on eBay just the front panel / grill and speaker components from a recycled Play 5 - a brilliant idea for someone looking to replace a damaged grill or blown speaker.

 

 

melvimbe

To me it is useful only as a reinforcement to an assurance that even if Sonos were to go belly up, line in equipped Sonos hardware would keep going on.

 

 

If Sonos were to go belly up, meaning there is no more support for Sonos products, then your existing devices wouldn’t ever go in to any sort of recycling mode.  They  would continue to work as they do now till changing in streaming services made them inoperable.  

 

As to the question of “will the line in work after a product is recycled?”, the answer is no.  The terms of the trade up agreement specifically say that the product will no longer function, with no exceptions provided.  As well, there have been posters who have claimed they thought the line-in would still function after recycle, and there’s do not.

 

That said, it seems like it would be possible for someone to get it to work without using Sonos software somehow.  If that’s the case, I don’t think Sonos would do anything about that, since it’s on longer their software in use, and the device would not be able to connect to a Sonos network of speakers. 

 

Danny
jgatie

It has been confirmed that the recycle process forces a factory reset on the device.  After that, the “recycled” status means you cannot add it to a system.  So even if the Line-In were active after the recycling process (it’s not, BTW), you can’t reactivate Autoplay if you can’t add it to a system.  

I’m afraid the whole use the Line-In after recycling idea is a dead end.

K

It has been confirmed that the recycle process forces a factory reset on the device.  After that, the “recycled” status means you cannot add it to a system.  So even if the Line-In were active after the recycling process (it’s not, BTW), you can’t reactivate Autoplay if you can’t add it to a system.  

I’m afraid the whole use the Line-In after recycling idea is a dead end.

Since my interest in exploring this was to see if one could count on unrecycled Sonos units set to autoplay on line in doing so after a sonos apocalypse, this in itself is not of interest now that I have been assured outside this thread that they will so play, as dumb speakers at the service of masters of different levels of intelligence wired to Line in jacks. And with two such masters that can group, two dumb Sonos units will play in perfect sync as well. 

But having seen my units boot and play from line in at times they were the only Sonos units to be supplied power, with no wifi even because their radio was disabled, I would still be very interested in seeing if a recycled unit would do just this as well. 

I suppose I could test this via a factory reset of my Connect amp and see if it does this. 

K

@melvimbe : my definition of belly up also includes a world where Sonos is gone and Sonos servers offline. As a worst case scenario.

K

 

As to people who had already traded up and, ahem, ‘recycled’ their products, would they be riled if Sonos implemented the line-in code change to turn, say, a Play 5 in to an active speaker?

I’m not sure that they would be

 

@johngolfuk : Oh yes, they would for sure be, seeing how one here got riled up at my merely suggesting this:-) Obviously there is no knowing how many would be. Except the ones that still had such units at hand.

R
Userlevel 5
Badge +7

 

You use the example that a cheaper port would be against their own interest.  Yes.  But customers don't care about making sonos richer, they are buying a product.  Was it Steve Jobs who once said better to eat your own lunch than have a competitor eat it for you. 

 

That’s really where I’m coming from. I consider the pricing of the Port as lying somewhere towards the preposterous end of the spectrum. That’s not because I’m budget-constrained (I’m not, and can buy whatever I like within reason) but simply based on my perception of value (bang for the buck).

I will pay up for quality but the price must represent “value” to me so I have no truck with items whose pricing I perceive as taking the p!55. Pricing that’s circa an order of magnitude > than low-cost streaming devices from Amazon & Google, and even over twice that of something like an Apple TV 4K, certainly falls into that bracket.

 

jgatie

 

But having seen my units boot and play from line in at times they were the only Sonos units to be supplied power, with no wifi even because their radio was disabled, I would still be very interested in seeing if a recycled unit would do just this as well. 

I suppose I could test this via a factory reset of my Connect amp and see if it does this. 

 

As stated, a recycled unit will not do this.  The line-in is not active on a recycled unit, and even if it were, there would be no way to configure the unit back to Autoplay after the recycle process factory resets the unit. 

I really don’t know where your “very interested” comment comes from after being informed of these facts, but those are the facts.

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