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Apple Lossless - extreme dropout/stability issues with multi-room audio

Since last week I’ve had major issues with multi-room (10 devices across 6 rooms).   I’m thinking this may be related to the newly added Apple Lossless support.    I can get 3, maybe 4 rooms to play reliably, but adding 5 or 6 causes major issues with constant rolling dropouts, eventually leading to some speakers just silent (although the app thinks they are playing).

With Amazon Music, (which I don’t use, but tried it for testing), playback is stable.

I can also play to all rooms/devices reliably with Apple Music over Airplay - including adding 6 more “rooms” through airplay.

I have an Eero mesh network with excellent coverage, and I live in a rural setting so not a lot of interference from other networks.

Anyone having similar issues?

16 replies

Pools-3015
Userlevel 5
Badge +12

Do you have any devices hardwired to your router? Try to get a main speaker like a soundbar hardwired. NOT a Sub or surround. Have a look at this post:

 

 

K
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Do you have any devices hardwired to your router? Try to get a main speaker like a soundbar hardwired.

Thanks so much for the suggestion.   I’ve done a bunch of testing with one speaker wired vs all wireless.   Definitely seems to be stable with one speaker wired, but will test it for a longer period to make sure.   So far I’ve switched back and forth multiple times and it only take a few minutes for drop outs and lag to occur when fully on wifi, and I haven’t noticed issues while one speaker is wired.

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

Ironically, the preferred Sonos connection method now is to go all wireless and not use a wired connection (Sonosnet) - so much so the latest speakers don’t include support for ethernet/Sonosnet.

It’s interesting that you’re experiencing the issues using a mesh setup too, in theory the optimum setup according to Sonos I think.  Are the speakers connecting to different Eeros?

K
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Checked to Eero connections - all Sonos devices are connected to the nearest Eero, which makes sense.  All the Eero’s are hardwired too.   

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

I think you're not advised to wire individual speakers to separate Eeros, maybe that's the issue?

https://support.eero.com/hc/en-us/articles/18393441260315-How-do-I-setup-my-Sonos-Speakers-on-my-eero-Network-Basic-Setup

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/recommended-eero-network-configuration-for-sonos

 

K
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Well - also very interesting.    Tentatively it seems wiring a single speaker to an eero is stable for me while wifi only is currently a complete mess, especially when a track is lossless.

At least Sonos has that covered as acceptable in their guidance notes.

press250
Userlevel 7
Badge +14

Well - also very interesting.    Tentatively it seems wiring a single speaker to an eero is stable for me while wifi only is currently a complete mess, especially when a track is lossless.

At least Sonos has that covered as acceptable in their guidance notes.

Good experimenting! FYI: when you run wired Ethernet to a speaker, it communicates with your other speakers over SonosNet. And SonosNet is WiFi. One possibility is that SonosNet is picking a ‘better’ WiFi channel than Eero.

K
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Little more testing with one speaker wired…    Much more responsive in this config.   All zones are starting at the same time, vs staggered after a delay.   No issue scrubbing through a song.  No delay when skipping tracks.  No issue with popping/blasting noises (which has driven to dog into madness).   Songs stay on “lossless” vs dropping back to lower quality.

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

Can you see if the other speaker are no longer connecting to different Eeros?

In the Sonos App, About My System, are they WM:0?

K
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No change to what Eero the speakers are using - except my Arc is now hardwired to an Eero.  
 

in this configuration most speakers change from WM:1 to  WM:0, except Move and Roam, they still say WM:1.    Also 2 Era300’s an a Sub are WM:3 an WM:2 respectively.   I think that’s normal since they are paired to the Arc.  

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

So now your speakers are all (except Move, Era and Roam, because they don't support it) using Sonosnet and ignoring the Eeros (except, obviously the one that's wired to).  This is the setup Sonos are moving away from.  WM:0 is Sonosnet.

Info here.

Pools-3015
Userlevel 5
Badge +12

So now your speakers are all (except Move and Roam, because they don't support it) using Sonosnet and ignoring the Eeros (except, obviously the one that's wired to).  This is the setup Sonos are moving away from.  WM:0 is Sonosnet.

Info here.

Sonos is not getting away from a wired connection. They just offer it as an option for new speakers now:

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/sonos-combo-adapter

You are reading the modes wrong. WM:0 is wired, WM:2 is a Wireless bond to a soundbar or Amp. 

If @klewis00 is having success with a wired connection, don't push them to go wireless. If the Eeros have a wired backhaul, there is no issue plugging a speaker into a node. They just need to make sure its a main speaker.

I have had my soundbar hardwired with my Sub and surrounds bonded to it for years with no issues. The new Era speakers can bond to the new soundbars (Arc and Beam) through their 5ghz wireless radio. Its not Sonosnet.

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

I'm pretty sure you've got pretty much everything wrong about where you say I'm wrong there.

And why on earth are you thinking I'm ‘pushing’ them to wireless?

I'm on Sonosnet myself, which for reference IS WM:0!  My guess is you don't know what Sonosnet is.

Pools-3015
Userlevel 5
Badge +12

I'm pretty sure you've got pretty much everything wrong about where you say I'm wrong there.

And why on earth are you thinking I'm ‘pushing’ them to wireless?

I'm on Sonosnet myself, which for reference IS WM:0!  My guess is you don't know what Sonosnet is.

 

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +16

Sorry, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make now.  OP hasn’t mentioned an issue with Era or sub and they’re on the right setting it seems.

Linking to an expensive adaptor means nothing regarding Sonos’ move away from a wired setup - they have stated many, may times the preferred method now (with the advent and advance of wireless hardware) is a WiFi setup.  To say that ‘Sonos is not getting away from a wired connection’ is wrong.

OP then said that most speakers had now moved from WM:1 to WM:0 (after I suggested changing to a single wired speaker) and I said they’re now on Sonosnet - which is WM:0.  Why do you say that I’m ‘reading the modes wrong. WM:0 is wired.’?  For info, Sonosnet is when a compatible Sonos device (or more) is wired to the network - this one and the rest of the speakers form a mesh - and do not connect to the native WiFi network.

And again, why do you think I’m pushing them to go wireless - when I actually suggested wiring in a single speaker - which, despite what you appear to think, is called Sonosnet - and is WM:0 in the Sonos view of things.

K
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Thanks to both of you for your inputs and discussion. :-)   Very helpful to have multiple points of view, and appreciate the networking detail, as it may help me troubleshoot this further.   

Happy to report that I ran the current setup (1 wired, rest wireless) for many hours today with Lossless Apple Music without any issues.      While fully on wifi, I could not get though 2 songs without major drop outs.

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