Alternative Software to Control SONOS

Sonos has had a 65k limit since the beginning. I hoped this would change with S2, but so far it hasn't happened. Somewhere there on this community there’s an explanation (I think by @controlav) as to why this is so difficult. 

Your other option would be to use Plex. Plex on Sonos is limited in it's functions (no folder view for example) but at least it can handle a large amount of files.

I think being part of beta testing does not solve any problems - it could even bring more problems. If solving the problems you have with your system was the reason for joining beta testing, you have not though this trough sufficiently.

You might not want to hear this, but most other problems with Sonos are almost always network related. I personally have not encountered any “bugs” in the software, but maybe if you post them here, someone will help.

Just because you haven’t experienced any problems with the software isn’t an accurate reflection on the number of posts in the community of people who are experiencing similar issues to me.  

Also, I joined the Beta Programme in the hope of being able to guide the development of the software in terms of functionality and accessibility...both these issues remain for my particular setup and are not network-related, but - it seems - related to SONOS’ inability to cope with a large number of tracks in multiple Music Library locations.  

hey.

i used to have this exact problem, and so went down the rabbit hole a few years back.

and using the method outlined below, i have found a very simple workaround that uses very little extra layers of chaos to get the desired result.

my ‘normal’ library = 35,000 tracks, whereas my non-indexed/m3u library = 80,000 tracks.

hence proving it is very possible and still use the basic S1 Sonos app.

here are the notes i provided on a different thread : 

“

http://www.anderware.org/software.php?page=dev/M3U4U.htm

after a lot of trial and error with various suggestions, i have found this workaround to be the easiest.

split your digital archive into 2 areas, one is indexed as per normal, the other is stuff that can be indexed using the above m3u file generator eg ‘extra_music’.

then you add the directory of the m3u files as another location for sonos and boom.

i have about 62K tracks in my m3u directory, and 35K in my standard directory.

you just have to be selective re the other directory.

i have it broken down into sub-sections eg : /extra_music/reggae, /extra_music/downtempo, /extra_music/mixtapes, /extra_music/electronica etc.

as the Sonos search does not dive into the m3u files, and so you have to know where you have put certain albums so you can drill down to get to the album you require.

however, one it’s up and running it’s brilliant.

my current process :

• i add an album to my electronica sub-dir in the directory that will get read by the m34u generator
• run the m3u4u.exe file to add the new album to the m3u4u mirror
• then wait until the overnight indexing, or run the sonos library update manually
• in Sonos you then go to the extra_music directory (i added as a favourite as it makes it easier), and drill down to the album as per.

good luck ! 

m.

“

Thanks for the workaround.  I will certainly explore this further, but still leaves the fundamental issue that the software supposedly designed to work with the hardware doesn’t!

The fact that other software can index more media files than SONOS, e.g. MediaMonkey and pretty much any UPnP software makes me deeply skeptical of the coding prowess of the SONOS App developers.  

I see people reporting problems on this forum, mostly with getting their Sonos devices to connect properly with their networks. You state you have other problems. What software problems are you referring to?

While there are hard limits of 16 shares and 65,000 tracks in the index, there is also a soft limit due to hardware memory limits because the index is stored in the players’ RAM, For performance and overall system reliability considerations each player stores a full copy of the library index.

I don’t know how many users are constrained by these limits, but a few tens of thousands of constrained users, out of millions, can be quite vocal. I don’t know the percentages, but it might not be prudent allocation of resources for SONOS to redesign the library scheme to accommodate these users.

I have a friend who listens only to full albums. Track by track listening is a nonstarter for her. Since there is no file size limit for the SONOS library and disk space is relatively inexpensive, one work around for her would be to rearrange the library such that each album is a single file. A given album could span multiple CD’s. Using the current library framework, the hard limit would become 65,000 albums. I don’t know how many similar users exist or many of them would spend any effort reorganizing their library or if any developers would build a (relatively simple) application to do this.

Plex is an off the shelf application that can work around this 65,000 track limit. I have no experience with Plex. Not everyone is fond of it.

The current trend that I’m observing is that users want the library available from their portable devices while the user is out and about. When SONOS was conceived, tens of Megabytes allocated to a library index was the practical limit at reasonable cost. Also, multi Terabyte hard drives for less than $100 were not yet available. Currently, this has moved out to hundreds of Gigabytes on the portable device, but there is still a limit. Using a Plex sort of approach and online, remote servers, most practical limits could be relaxed or eliminated. There would, however, be storage costs and time/trouble to maintain any such schemes. These costs must be compared to subscribing to the many online services that offload storage to the cloud and minimize maintenance time/trouble for the user. Except for very old or esoteric music, these services make virtually everything available with relatively little fuss.

Unfortunately, I think that relatively few, vocal users are burdened with the 65,000 track limit.

Agreed that there are probably not that many users who need to have over 65,000 tracks indexed, but at the very least SONOS should offer a supported workaround, or even recommend software which can cater for large local music libraries.  Given there is the option to add a music library from a NAS, surely it would not be beyond the bounds of impossibility for SONOS to access queues, playlists and the music library directly from these local NAS boxes?  

I realise it is not a “modern” way to consume music, i.e. from files on a NAS, but I don’t want to have to pay a subscription service to consume music I already own.

So the (well publiced)  65k limit is your only software problem?
 

Have you tried Plex?

You make the 65K limit sound like a trvial matter!  When, in fact, there are issues, which I believe are related to this, which are causing more than just search result issues.  For example, I am trying to add a secondary library on another network share...but when I do that, I cannot then Shuffle Play from either Library, it says the queue is full and that it can’t add the shuffle play tracks to the queue!  If I remove the second library...all works as expected.  

The other issue (and I have seen this raised in these forums) is that when you remove a speaker from the playback queue, when shuffle playing, 6the music pauses, then the shuffle play queue starts back at the first track

I haven’t tried Plex...but will certainly investigate this...thanks.

I think 65,000 tracks, at an approximate 3 minute track length is somewhere in the region of 135 days of music playback and that’s if playing the music for 24 hours a day.. so in real terms it will likely take a year or two to (or far longer) to listen to such a library.

My thoughts would be to simply streamline any main-played tracks and create a library, then have an archive for any other rarely played tracks, which can still likely be played through Airplay or UPnP/DLNA anyway even if stored separately on the LAN.

A relatively easy management scheme could revolve around separate seasonal shares. For example Christmas music could be excluded most of the time.

The workaround is Plex.