Zp 24/96

Or one could conclude that formerly very content Sonos customers are telling the company to evolve. Since buying the Sonos ZP90, I have heard competition that were able to sell products at similar prices or cheaper than Sonos that sounded better when coupled to a good and reveiling DAC.

So please explain: Since when may customers no longer be critical on products they buy? The Logitech Touch sounded better when the external powersupply is used, but is no longer available. The simple Audio solution sounded good, but isn't there yet development wise. So blame it on me to still be looking out for a better product for the buck. And if that means replacing my ZP90, that's OK by me.

Offcourse: You do not have to be as picky as me when it comes to sound quality, but you do not need to be so touchy when somebody is critical on the performance of a Sonos product. Are you a Sonos deveopler, or what? A Sonos product is okay soundwise, but I for one am expecting a better product this year than the one from a few years ago. I also want to be taken serious as a customer, and not be told what to need or not to need. Not Sonos, not any other company, nor you will be the judge of that.

When someone disagrees with you, it does not automatically make them an employee (especially when Sonos employees are denoted with a '- Sonos' after their names). Besides, I didn't even debate your points, some of which I agree with. All I did was point out that you have been here previously with the same bluster about the latest and greatest product that was going to spell certain doom for Sonos; yet here you are back again. My post was simply pointing out the fact that although your threats to ditch the product are quite vocal, they also seem to be mostly idle in nature. If that makes me a company shill, then Sonos has been quite delinquent in sending my checks. :rolleyes:

When someone disagrees with you, it does not automatically make them an employee (especially when Sonos employees are denoted with a '- Sonos' after their names). Besides, I didn't even debate your points, some of which I agree with. All I did was point out that you have been here previously with the same bluster about the latest and greatest product that was going to spell certain doom for Sonos; yet here you are back again. My post was simply pointing out the fact that although your threats to ditch the product are quite vocal, they also seem to be mostly idle in nature. If that makes me a company shill, then Sonos has been quite delinquent in sending my checks. :rolleyes:

I understand your point of view. Just commenting on your own words and the obvious rolleyes smiley you added. The fact I didn't find my next step in streaming yet and am explaining my frustration with Sonos at this time, doesn't mean that you can shove it aside because I am of this conviction longer than just this week. You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I. I just expect my opinion to be respected as much as the next guys' is.

Again. If I thought Sonos sucked, I wouldn't have bought it. However, I don't feel that decision pressures me into staying with it. I really think Sonos could do better in the department of sound quality and see no reason why not to ask the question. Every company needs to develop it's business and also redevelop existing products as time goed by. Sonos saw the benefits of streaming before others and were better than the rest then. Now they seem to be standing still and others might pass them. In my opinion they should strive more towards better sound quality. And maybe I am alone in that and it's time for me to move towards bigger and better things. That's okay too.

And for those who are searching for a good streaming product, I will post again as soon as I made up my mind about Sonos. Just thought the info I started with a few days ago would be interesting to other music lovers. Just didn't expect to get so much negativity from some at the Sonos discussion board. Just wanted to share a new development.

What is holding you back? Buy I decent or high-tec DAC with build-in reclock function and connect it to the digital out of the ZP90.
You won't get anything better than that. No Sonos "improvement" needed to get the highest standard.

And for the HD material discussion, it won't be the first or the last one, but this is an interesting article: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

That's just it. I tried the NAD M51 DAC with my Sonos ZP90 and had high hopes. I then tried the M51 with the Logitech Touch. The Touch clearly won. Which means Sonos (which is more expensive than Touch including external powersupply together) isn't as good as I hoped. Not even when playing Redbook files. I also tested against a Linn Majik DS which has it's own DAC and is also way better (but in a different financial leage).

I love the Sonos interface though, so I still have high hopes for Sonos to develop a Zoneplayer that actually sounds the part with a top external DAC. Again, I like Sonos a lot, but want them to develop their products and feel I deserve better quality for the money. If not, I may indeed chose the better sound quality above the better interface.

And for those who are searching for a good streaming product, I will post again as soon as I made up my mind about Sonos. Just thought the info I started with a few days ago would be interesting to other music lovers. Just didn't expect to get so much negativity from some at the Sonos discussion board. Just wanted to share a new development.

It isn't negativity in blind defense of Sonos. It is just that many of us are just as convinced that 24/96 isn't the answer to better sound, and want to make sure that music lovers understand that a lack of this feature isn't something to worry about while evaluating Sonos as a streaming solution.

And for those who are searching for a good streaming product, I will post again as soon as I made up my mind about Sonos. Just thought the info I started with a few days ago would be interesting to other music lovers. Just didn't expect to get so much negativity from some at the Sonos discussion board. Just wanted to share a new development.

People have been "sharing new developments" of impending Sonosian doom since I first purchased Sonos 5 years go. First it was the Transporter, then the Duet, then the Linksys, then Airplay, then the bogus Apple story about supporting 24/96, then the Touch, then Simple Audio. In that time, Sonos has grown to 2.5 million sold. Now, the latest "killer" is the Olive One, and to tell the truth, I sure hope it works better than any of the others. Because then every self-proclaimed golden ears (with their always accompanying Kryptonite-like allergy to blind testing) can go spew their snake oil "it's like night and day" nonsense over on their boards.

That's just it. I tried the NAD M51 DAC with my Sonos ZP90 and had high hopes. I then tried the M51 with the Logitech Touch. The Touch clearly won. Which means Sonos (which is more expensive than Touch including external powersupply together) isn't as good as I hoped. Not even when playing Redbook files. I also tested against a Linn Majik DS which has it's own DAC and is also way better (but in a different financial leage).

I love the Sonos interface though, so I still have high hopes for Sonos to develop a Zoneplayer that actually sounds the part with a top external DAC. Again, I like Sonos a lot, but want them to develop their products and feel I deserve better quality for the money. If not, I may indeed chose the better sound quality above the better interface.

Nonsense. The Sonos has been tested by Audiophile magazine to be bit-perfect to the source when set to fixed output. Jitter issues in the Sonos (as if they are audible :rolleyes:) would be taken care of by the reclocking in the DAC. If you are hearing differences, it is because you have not level matched, you have not set the Sonos to fixed output, you have some sort of leveling/equalizer setting in the tracks, the Touch is coloring the sound, or you are hearing things. But it is not the quality of the output of the Sonos which is making the difference, because Sonos cannot change the bitstream when set to fixed-output; it merely passes it through. So any differences are in the track settings, or downstream of the Sonos.

And before you start in on this, please note that every person who has claimed "my xyz player sounds better than the Connect through my DAC" has eaten a big plate of crow when it turns out they had some setting wrong. After fixing the cause for the unfair comparison, they've heard no differences.

Nonsense. The Sonos has been tested by Audiophile magazine to be bit-perfect to the source when set to fixed output. Jitter issues in the Sonos (as if they are audible :rolleyes:) would be taken care of by the reclocking in the DAC. If you are hearing differences, it is because you have not level matched, you have not set the Sonos to fixed output, you have some sort of leveling/equalizer setting in the tracks, the Touch is coloring the sound, or you are hearing things. But it is not the quality of the output of the Sonos which is making the difference, because Sonos cannot change the bitstream when set to fixed-output; it merely passes it through. So any differences are in the track settings, or downstream of the Sonos.

And before you start in on this, please note that every person who has claimed "my xyz player sounds better than the Connect through my DAC" has eaten a big plate of crow when it turns out they had some setting wrong. After fixing the cause for the unfair comparison, they've heard no differences.

You're sure of yourself! I knew when I posted you would have to respond with an answer like you did. But to post a statement this strong I didn't even expect from you. What is it you just have to defend Sonos till the end? It's a good product, but the best ever? There's more needed than bit perfect file transfer to get better sound.

I for one try to be curious of nature and have tried these products out in my own home on my own equipement. There are no wrong settings. Connected like you describe. Just a simple connection between the tested streamers and DAC. And I also try to leave room for other peoples' believes. As I am allright with it that you believe there's no difference between these systems.

But if that makes you happy I will leave this discussion be, for it is a clear as crystal that you do not want to hear anything critical about Sonos. Why still eludes me, but for the sake of it, let's by any means stop this discussion. It's obvious that when you cannot hear the difference, there's no question in your mind you're right and everybody else is wrong, so wrong. Well enjoy your bit perfect and supreme Sonos equipement that can never be bettered.

Ignorence is bliss. Let's just agree to disagree. Bye!

There's more needed than bit perfect file transfer to get better sound.

For those of us who are curious, like you, could you explain what more is needed?

That's just it. I tried the NAD M51 DAC with my Sonos ZP90 and had high hopes. I then tried the M51 with the Logitech Touch. The Touch clearly won. Which means Sonos (which is more expensive than Touch including external powersupply together) isn't as good as I hoped. Not even when playing Redbook files. I also tested against a Linn Majik DS which has it's own DAC and is also way better (but in a different financial leage).

I love the Sonos interface though, so I still have high hopes for Sonos to develop a Zoneplayer that actually sounds the part with a top external DAC. Again, I like Sonos a lot, but want them to develop their products and feel I deserve better quality for the money. If not, I may indeed chose the better sound quality above the better interface.

Hmmm...interesting.

I’ve done a similar test: connect a ZP90 and a Linn DS to one and the same DAC (at that time a Wolfsson with reclock)
DAC was connected to some studio grade active speakers. There was no audible difference whatsoever, using AIFF files.
Our conclusion was that the digital out of SONOS is identical to the digital out of the Linn. Only improvement (read: difference) can be achieved by choosing a DAC with the audible characteristics of your personal choice.

Last week I read a paper of someone who was looking for “better” sound and bought the Linn DS to replace his SONOS + DAC.
Guess what: after three days of blind testing he send back the Linn since it gave him no improvement at all (he was already using a very decent DAC).
He performed his blind test by disconnecting the optical fibers and reconnecting them without looking which device was connected to what input.

One thing he noticed during these tests: both his Linn DS as well as the software needed to be reset at least once a day while Sonos proved his reliability.
Talking about quality :-)

What I’m trying to say and what is backed up by at least a couple of tests: as long as you use the digital out of Sonos there is no difference with other brand names Qsound wise. It all depends on the used DAC (and off course the amplifiers and speakers).
However, there is one aspect that Sonos excels in: reliability

Hope this helps in your search for better sound.

What I’m trying to say and what is backed up by at least a couple of tests: as long as you use the digital out of Sonos there is no difference with other brand names Qsound wise. It all depends on the used DAC (and off course the amplifiers and speakers).
However, there is one aspect that Sonos excels in: reliability

Hope this helps in your search for better sound.

My experience with admittedly personal and therefore limited testing is that the used DAC can well be the one in Sonos - provided level matching is accurately done to less than 0.2 db difference.

And music files can be lossy as long as they are 192kbps or above.

PS: Caveat - like the rest of me, my hearing is over 50 years old, so maybe I don't hear so good:-). But accepting that has allowed me to now focus more on music and reliability than stay on the SQ improvement treadmill.