Zp 24/96

Cheating? Gaming the numbers? I'm simply putting that if you want something, ask for it. And I suggested this forum is one of many places you can do this.

Certainly you can. Anyone can put their +1 here. The thing to realise is that if a few dozen people do this (what ever incentives them to do it), it's not going suddenly going to make Sonos sit up and listen.

The fact is, these forums are not a good representative sample of Sonos's market, for both demographical and statistical reasons.

You seem to be suggesting that there is no way to ask for hi-res, if you post then you're doing it cos you were told to. If lots of people do then Sonos won't listen cos they'll all been bitten and infected. Dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

The request has been made already. You are free to show your support for it, but I'm saying that trying to organize a campaign to try to drum up support isn't going to help your cause much.

As I said before (but which you seem to have either not read or not understood), Sonos knows that there is a subset of users who want hires. Based on other data, that number is probably pretty small. Sonos will know this through market research which will extend beyond Internet forums. Unless there is a huge latent demand for hires which hasn't shown through in Sonos's market research (almost certainly not true) then the market is what it is, and there's no a damn thing you can do to change it.

Ranting about it or lobbying others to come on here and rant about it may make you feel better, but it's not going to change the size of the market for hires and it isn't suddenly going to make Sonos start developing it. That applies to any other feature too.

You offer no valid way to ask...

No asking is needed. It's already a known feature request. If you want to show your support, feel free to +1 or "me too" to this thread, or contact Sonos directly. You can even invite your mates if you want. ;)

(The question is, if someone else campaigned for users to come on these forums to state why they didn't care less for hires support, would you be happy with that?)

But what you seem to be looking for is a "valid way" to make Sonos start developing hires. There isn't one, and quite rightly too.

There also isn't a good way to get a specific answer from Sonos about their plans for hires support, again for good reason.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your little tantrum.

Cheers,

Keith

And link to forums from their official website, under the "Support" heading, no less and they make official announcements here.

You can dress it up any way you like but these ARE the official Sonos forums.

Yes, but they are provided by Sonos primarily for users. They also post official announcements from the customer support team on Facebook and Twitter.

And, regardless, Sonos has a company policy not to publicly comment on potential future developments. It's a very sensible policy and one which is shared by just about every company I can think of, for good reason. This has been stated many, many times but people don't seem to get it. They seem to think that if they shout loud enough Sonos will make an exception just for them. They won't!

That's their policy folks. If you don't like it, tough!

Cheers,

Keith

Certainly you can. Anyone can put their +1 here. The thing to realise is that if a few dozen people do this (what ever incentives them to do it), it's not going suddenly going to make Sonos sit up and listen.

The fact is, these forums are not a good representative sample of Sonos's market, for both demographical and statistical reasons.



The request has been made already. You are free to show your support for it, but I'm saying that trying to organize a campaign to try to drum up support isn't going to help your cause much.

As I said before (but which you seem to have either not read or not understood), Sonos knows that there is a subset of users who want hires. Based on other data, that number is probably pretty small. Sonos will know this through market research which will extend beyond Internet forums. Unless there is a huge latent demand for hires which hasn't shown through in Sonos's market research (almost certainly not true) then the market is what it is, and there's no a damn thing you can do to change it.

Ranting about it or lobbying others to come on here and rant about it may make you feel better, but it's not going to change the size of the market for hires and it isn't suddenly going to make Sonos start developing it. That applies to any other feature too.



No asking is needed. It's already a known feature request.

If you want to show your support, feel free to +1 or "me too" to this thread, or contact Sonos directly. You can even invite your mates if you want. ;)

(The question is, if someone else campaigned for users to come on these forums to state why they didn't care less for hires support, would you be happy with that?)

But what you seem to be looking for is a "valid way" to make Sonos start developing hires.

There isn't one, and quite rightly too.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your little tantrum.

Cheers,

Keith

OK, so Sonos will only respond to their market research. The individuals can say +1 (which I have already done) but they're not really looking. There's a bigger picture for Sonos.

So with the market research, do you have any ideas why the results/action on the results are different to all their main competitors? Either everyone else thinks its something that a decent proportion of their client base want or they find its not too hard/expensive to do at the design stage so might as well put it in. Are the client bases drastically different? Why do you think Sonos' market research comes back with different findings?

Lastly, the babyish comment at the end? I guess that's in response to my precious comment. Well making me out as a whiney child doesn't help that. I know it's been 4 years of this over an over again but can we be civil? 😮

So with the market research, do you have any ideas why the results/action on the results are different to all their main competitors? Either everyone else thinks its something that a decent proportion of their client base want or they find its not too hard/expensive to do at the design stage so might as well put it in. Are the client bases drastically different? Why do you think Sonos' market research comes back with different findings?

I only have intelligent guesses:

1. if you are comparing with newer devices (which I suspect you are) then Sonos was designed 6-7 years ago, when even lossless audio was highly uncommon.

2. if you are comparing with standalone or wired streaming systems, the problem is much, much easier to solve for such a device. I would say it's almost trivial to do so. Sonos is a wireless multiroom system. Solving the bandwidth and sync issues is likely to be very complex.

3. I'm guessing their market stats aren't that different, but perhaps they are aiming at a specific niche of the market, or maybe felt that if it was so easy to add (see 2 above) it would be daft not to. For reasons I state above (1 and 2) that wouldn't have applied in Sonos's situation.

In any case, other than the Transporter which isn't exactly a mainstream product, I've not seen any other streaming solution actively marketing themselves as a hires player (having it on the spec sheet and actively marketing it are different things).

Lastly, the babyish comment at the end?

I'm glad you admit to it!

Cheers,

Keith

Well anyway, I am disappointed in the outcome of this discussion and I wish SONOS good luck in the hard competition for customers with or without hires.

1. if you are comparing with newer devices (which I suspect you are) then Sonos was designed 6-7 years ago, when even lossless audio was highly uncommon.

Lossless audio was very common; most people where primarily using cd-players for their home-audio.

Lossless audio was very common; most people where primarily using cd-players for their home-audio.

Put it in context though, this is a streaming forum.

I'm glad you admit to it!

Cheers,

Keith

Some of the moderators on here seem to use rather immoderate language, such as "I'm not going to respond to the rest of your little tantrum."
The original post by therixonator was a well thought out analysis of several years discussion on this thread. However, the response from Majik in particular was neither constructive or even handed.

Another component in the SONOS decision to support 24/96 are the support and loss of business costs.

Mostly wireless systems in congested WiFi areas may be working just fine now, but will be pushed off the edge with the increased data demands of 24/96. There will be a "cost" associated with these units dropping off the edge. The direct costs will be calls to the support desk and indirect costs as complaint levels rise and drive away current and potential customers.

Will the new or retained customers result in enough additional revenue to offset the development costs, increased support costs, and the loss of retained or potential customers driven away by the resulting bad press? From a crass business standpoint SONOS must weigh all of these options.

There are a number of very vocal 24/96 advocates pressing their case and they feel that there is no valid argument that a reasonable, intelligent person can present for not going 24/96. What I don't know is how many equally vocal advocates would appear if 24/96 support "broke" their systems or reduced the maximum zone count to four or eight units, or (worse) forced these users to wire their units. I can imagine the uproar -- "I bought a WIRELESS system and now I'm, told that I must WIRE my units if I want the system to actually work!!" It would be hard to deny these points too.

Personally, I don't think that 24/96 is currently technically practical at a reasonable "cost" on the scale required to fulfill the SONOS vision of 24/96 music everywhere. However, wireless technology is improving and products that were not practical a year or two ago are suddenly moving into the mainstream. I am willing to change my position when enabling technology arrives.

---

In another market segment there is a huge pent up demand for wireless HiDef video and one can argue that "brain dead" manufacturers "don't get it" for not bringing out the products. Believe me, a lot of very good people are working very hard to develop this product. Yes, there are some expensive fringe products available now, and have been for many years, but the technology is not yet ready for the general market. In a year or two someone might finally "get it" and wires will be gone forever.

Mostly wireless systems in congested WiFi areas may be working just fine now, but will be pushed off the edge with the increased data demands of 24/96.
....

Will the new or retained customers result in enough additional revenue to offset the development costs, increased support costs, and the loss of retained or potential customers driven away by the resulting bad press? From a crass business standpoint SONOS must weigh all of these options.

There are a number of very vocal 24/96 advocates pressing their case and they feel that there is no valid argument that a reasonable, intelligent person can present for not going 24/96. What I don't know is how many equally vocal advocates would appear if 24/96 support "broke" their systems or reduced the maximum zone count to four or eight units, or (worse) forced these users to wire their units. I can imagine the uproar -- "I bought a WIRELESS system and now I'm, told that I must WIRE my units if I want the system to actually work!!" It would be hard to deny these points too.

Personally, I don't think that 24/96 is currently technically practical at a reasonable "cost" on the scale required to fulfill the SONOS vision of 24/96 music everywhere.

I am willing to change my position when enabling technology arrives.



This is a reasonably put and well rehearsed argument.
Although I am not entirely convinced by the "I bought a WIRELESS system and now I'm, told that I must WIRE my units if I want the system to actually work!!" This is because customers who bought a system for 24/96 support (which is still it has to be admitted a niche market) would likely understand that it imposes greater demands on any wireless network; whereas the majority who wanted to stream MP3s or even standard FLAC files would not experience any difficulties (or would they?). You should treat your customers (or contributors to this forum) like grown-ups.