Sonos is forcing people to buy new hardware as they've broken the Connect:Amp and they refuse to fix it

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jgatie


Fair enough - but if you were working on a banking and financial transaction system then the reason it was kept alive for 20 years and interfaced with 1960s style systems is that the core of what you were replacing was so mission critical that the risk of tampering with it was far greater than leaving it alone. 
 

And by the time it was left alone for long enough, the original programmers had to be brought out of retirement. 

Given your vintage, I suspect that you of all people can appreciate that coders today don’t have to exercise the skill that you did back in the day as processing power and storage has become so cheap. Unfortunately, hardware advances are the source of unnecessary obsolescence. After all, is today’s Sonos offering a better SQ than the units from a decade ago? I doubt it. Just as my hifi system is an equal quality match for any modern day equipment and the newest component in my hifi dates from 2002. 
 

 

 

I wish it were as complicated as that, when it was really two simple things 1) The powers that be are cheap, and 2) Nobody high up wants to make a decision, so the void is filled by idiot sycophants.

As to your last point, like Sonos, a significant portion of my work is embedded, so we are always concerned about efficiency.  As far as the cost of processing and storage, like any other industry, as resources expand, so does the usage of those resources.  Cheaper/faster processing and storage aren’t the direct cause of so called “bloat”, and it’s really more the tools used rather than laziness of the developers.  Modern languages use more resources, that’s a fact.  The debugging tools available today are 100x what I was doing with inserted printf() statements back in college, and the industry is better for it.  But those things take up space and/or processor cycles. 

As to Sonos’ sound quality?  I watched Mission Impossible: Dead Reconning on an Arc/surrounds/Sub system last night, and not only was it far better sound than my Playbar/surrounds/Sub from a decade ago, it was better than my receiver/satellites/sub from 5 years ago.  Part of that was the mix and addition of Atmos, but regardless, it was outstanding.  I also prefer a pair of Ones and a Sub to my pair of Play:5’s and Sub from a decade ago.  YMMV.

buzz

 

 

Cheaper/faster processing and storage aren’t the direct cause of so called “bloat”, and it’s really more the tools used rather than laziness of the developers.  Modern languages use more resources, that’s a fact.  The debugging tools available today are 100x what I was doing with inserted prinf() statements back in college, and the industry is better for it.  But those things take up space and/or processor cycles. 

 

I don’t know the current “rule of thumb”, but at one point programmer productivity was calculated at about six lines of code per hour. Sure, you might be able to jot down a few hundred lines of code in that hour, but there was prior planning, flow charting, and such, then testing and documenting. You haven’t actually been “productive” until the package is operational and deployed. Now, these six lines can pull together many, many man years of coding.

In the consumer area there is a demand for “free support forever”. This is very attractive for consumers, but it’s not a great long term business model for a company. Eventually, more resources will be expended for “free support” than developing new products that generate sales to fund the “free support”.

Audio equipment is in a unique niche. We have become accustomed to buy once and use forever. Lots of equipment from the ‘60s ‘70s and before is still functional for playing records, CD’s, listening to the radio and even playing audio from a cable box. We shouldn’t try throw a system like SONOS in to this bin because standards are rapidly changing and few potential customers will want to buy 70’s technology because it lacks current features in demand, features now required to sell equipment. Witness the number of posters in this Community who are incredulous that ten year old SONOS designs are not equipped with Bluetooth.

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

My Sonos gear has outlasted two “other brand” AVR systems.

My old non-computerized audio stuff from the 80s is still in service, now with the grandson.

K


Just as my hifi system is an equal quality match for any modern day equipment and the newest component in my hifi dates from 2002. 
 

 

I agree and here is another data point - when I quit audiophile pursuits in 2011 I gifted one of my stereo amps and speaker pair, Rotel+KEF bought in 2002, to my daughter for her home. This past festive season at a party at her home, the sound was thunderous enough to drive the dancing, distortion free. And later, do just as well while playing classic jazz from the golden years of jazz including 1959. But this system of 2002 vintage had been brought completely up to date by just adding an Echo Show 8 playing Spotify, wired to an audio in pair of jacks on the Rotel. Song selection by voice command, ditto volume control, with album art for the song being played visible on the Show, and the sound was brilliant because the speakers are very capable in the large enough enclosures needed for drivers of that time. In 2015, updation had been done by a Connect that was surplus with me, but when the Echo Show and Spotify became available, my daughter found Sonos to be obsolete for her needs and returned the Connect to me.

That Connect now does duty for me to use an Echo Show 8 to drive a play 1 pair + Sub, via the line in jacks on Connect. Most of my listening is by casting from the Spotify app on my phone to the Sonos set up via the Echo Show. Where neither S1 nor S2 is relevant. The only time I use S1 is when I want to play music from my local NAS. But the Sonos hardware at the pointy end, the play 1 pair + Sub, optimised by true play, is as good as I need it to be, even when the listening is in the near field, late at night. Sonos hardware is built to very high standards, I find, for both SQ and service life.

Occasionally I swap around the set up for this zone for a Connect Amp with the Sub, and a Quad speaker pair. There is very little to differentiate the sound I get from either set up - the Sub brings the play 1 pair up to the sound that the Quads can do minus Sub. When Sub is used for both set ups, midrange from Sonos and Quad is very close to excellent.

I therefore find this S1/S2 to just be a distraction that does not disturb my world.

 

K

My Sonos gear has outlasted two “other brand” AVR systems.

My old non-computerized audio stuff from the 80s is still in service, now with the grandson.

I am not surprised; I have seen amps from HiFi brands like NAD failing far too early these days and there is very little service available. Quad is perhaps rare in still supporting kit that is decades old, but their service centre is only in the UK. Shipping costs can therefore be high.

When I bought Sonos, I expected 7-8 years of service life based on its price point; much of my Sonos is now ten plus years old, and I now expect another 5 years from it!

A
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

I just want to add my name to this issue.  I know I had initially posted elsewhere so apologies for posting here also.  I’m not usually active in these forums and I’m usually very good at resolving my own IT issues.  What I hadn’t noticed was the bloody obvious, that it is the 3 Connect:Amps with the issues and the 2 modern Amps are solid.  All running S2
 

Everyone excepts the C:Amps are not cutting edge kit but their age shouldn’t enter into the equation when the issues appear to be resulting from a firmware push.  IMHO anyway.

Andrew 

K

@Andrew-s : my comments

  1. Home audio is settled tech and does not need cutting edge. Streamed audio from the net was the last innovation here, and even that is now settled tech. As is wireless grouped play.
  2. Spending GBP 2000 to deal with a Sonos blunder is not a good idea that will suit everyone.
  3. Sonos has accepted their mistake and have said they are working to fix this on highest priority. However that does not tell you if and when you may expect the fix.
  4. Your immediate fix is to roll those Connect Amps back to S1. Yes, that means that they will no longer play as a part of the S2 system, and I suspect that your modern amps cannot be rolled back to S1. If they could, that would be a complete fix for you if your modern amps are not being used for TV audio. This fix will work better for some users than others, based on the mix of S1/S2 units in their systems.
  5. As a minimum Sonos should allow you to roll back S2 to before the version that broke your Connect Amps. I have no idea if they will enable this solution; you can roll back to S1 but you cannot roll back within S2 unfortunately. The issue with this solution will be a loss of any further S2 enhancements but IMO these will be of dubious value. The bigger problem is accidentally upgrading a rolled back S2 system sometime in the future and breaking the Connect Amps again.
A
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Thanks Kumar.

 

i think that the key thing here is that this is no longer speculative, as it has been acknowledged by Sonos and we have to take their word that a fix is urgently being looked into.

i can live with it for now, with the occasional reboot to get things stable again.  Swapping out for a new Amps would be a last resort (though I’d settle for a boosted upgrade <hint><hint>😋).

Andrew 

K

i think that the key thing here is that this is no longer speculative, as it has been acknowledged by Sonos and we have to take their word that a fix is urgently being looked into.

 

Another thread says that there has been an update today that should perhaps fix things for you and others in the same boat.

K

More on said update, using unedited words from Sonos Staff elsewhere today:

we're close to releasing an update that fixes certain conditions with older players. I still recommend that you do not get your hopes up, however, as things will still likely vary on a device-by-device basis.

 

K

For those that have found rolling back to S1 to be a workable solution, I suggest you close down your system to any more S1 updates. All that these do now is address potential security issues, but I do not lose sleep over a hijack of my bank accounts via running Sonos at home on S1, on version 11.12, till Sonos hardware dies at end of life. 

My bigger concern is on the chances of memory on my 2010-2014 vintage Sonos units driven to failure by having to deal with further updates to S1 beyond 11.12.

Hence the full stop at 11.12.

Ken_Griffiths

I recall when the S1/S2 split occurred that Sonos mentioned they would do their best to keep S1 secure with updates, but they (perhaps more importantly for some users) stated that they would also reflect the changes to the existing music services within the S1 App and try to keep those running for as long as possible, but that there would be no new features/services etc.

My thoughts are that not upgrading may not only risk network security matters, but also some music services may stop working if an update is not applied. I assume aswell that Sonos support would not be available for those running older software/firmware and after several updates are missed, there’s ‘sometimes’ no option to update a system without the help of Support Staff if a system has fallen too far out of date. 

So stopping receiving any updates may ‘for some users’ also quickly cause problems. My own preference is to continue receiving updates for my S1 system and to receive the Support that Sonos provides.

K

Nah; I will take my chances with the streaming services. I don’t trust Sonos Support to fix my play 1 if it is broken by a future S1 update beyond 11.12. I trust Sonos less than others here do.

I remember people - that don't come here anymore - running 8.2 or such without a problem for all the time they were posting here.

But others here should know this: I now largely use Echo devices as front ends for all my music, wired to line in jacks on Connect Amps and Connects; as long as my Sonos units work from a line in analog signal, I am good till my Sonos hardware dies a natural death. I see no sense in consigning it to a landfill because of a flash memory card defect that has been exposed by Sonos software updates.

J
Badge +1

Just to add another voice. I’m also having drop out problems with several Connect Amps where audio frequently cuts out for a few seconds and then comes back.

All other Sonos components (not Connect Amps) on my network are fine. I’m running the very latest firmware (build 76249050). 

S
Userlevel 2

I have this problem with a Connect. 

E

Hi, I have been experiencing the same Connect:Amp music drops since May or June of 2023.     We have two 5-6 year old Connect:Amps as well as three newer 1 year old Amps.  Since the update both the Connect:Amps drop periodically for about 5-10 seconds, the newer operate fine.   Frustrating that the only solution is to drop another $1400.00 for two new amps.   

Bumper
Userlevel 6
Badge +13

Hi, I have been experiencing the same Connect:Amp music drops since May or June of 2023.     We have two 5-6 year old Connect:Amps as well as three newer 1 year old Amps.  Since the update both the Connect:Amps drop periodically for about 5-10 seconds, the newer operate fine.   Frustrating that the only solution is to drop another $1400.00 for two new amps.   

You can wait and see if they are able to fix the firmware issue with an update. They say they are working on one so you never know. 
 

IMO Sonos  really should do the right thing and let owners know about the flaw so that they don’t trash units or waste time chasing non existent network errors. This is an eight month old problem at this point,  not just connect amps. The usual little to no communication from Sonos for this is bs IMO.

K

This is an eight month old problem at this point,  not just connect amps. The usual little to no communication from Sonos for this is bs IMO.

I agree. Sonos comms are never very good. But, at this point it is already more than connect amps?!

A
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

This is an eight month old problem at this point,  not just connect amps. The usual little to no communication from Sonos for this is bs IMO.

I agree. Sonos comms are never very good. But, at this point it is already more than connect amps?!

Yes. It seems to be affecting Play 3 as well. 
 

Anyhow, apologies to those who are on mixed S1 capable and S2 only hardware - you’ll have to wait for the Sonos fix. In the meantime, if you can roll back to S1, my amps have been constantly powered up for five weeks now since the rollback. They’re totally stable, the amps are found immediately by the control apps, they play immediately and apart from one hesitation when switching from group to individual play and one episode of a few seconds of initial dropout after an overnight pause, the amps have been flawless. 
 

If you can do it, I strongly suggest the rollback to S1. 

A
Userlevel 1

Hi,

We have been a SONOS dealer for years and have sold hundreds of setups each year.

Count me in on tracking this issue. Since last summer we have had multiple clients reporting audio interruptions. This has been affecting multiple different devices across multiple different setups we have sold. The most common device we’ve witnessed having this issue is the Connect Amp. Although we have also seen similar issues with the new Amp as well.

 

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

K

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

From personal experience in my early years of using Sonos, and from thousands of posts here I know that a large majority of such issues are in fact down to network issues, fixed by user intervention with their network. How do you distinguish between these usual issues in the cases you refer to, and this specific issue, that is down to Sonos? Quite a challenge, I would think, and not one that I envy you for having to address. For instance, the new Amp cannot be affected by this issue, from all accounts of what the issue is.

Ken_Griffiths

Hi,

We have been a SONOS dealer for years and have sold hundreds of setups each year.

Count me in on tracking this issue. Since last summer we have had multiple clients reporting audio interruptions. This has been affecting multiple different devices across multiple different setups we have sold. The most common device we’ve witnessed having this issue is the Connect Amp. Although we have also seen similar issues with the new Amp as well.

 

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

Pity you did not join the forum here sooner and report your issues, as it may have helped others (and Sonos) to have identified the issue sooner, rather than later. I assume (hope) you’ve been in touch with Sonos since the Summer in an effort to resolve the matters you encountered with your installations?

A
Userlevel 1

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

From personal experience in my early years of using Sonos, and from thousands of posts here I know that a large majority of such issues are in fact down to network issues, fixed by user intervention with their network. How do you distinguish between these usual issue in the cases you refer to, and this specific issue, that is due to Sonos? Quite a challenge, I would think, and not one that I envy you for having.

You are correct that the network is paramount. Majority of the homes we service the network as well as A/V and security equipment. From large homes to the simplest of setups. However when my client’s network consists of a router and a switch which SONOS has had no problems with since the installation around 2017. Now they and a wave of others are reporting the same issue and timeframe. I have to seek out what has changed.

Especially after the holidays we have gotten an increased number of calls.

A
Userlevel 1

Hi,

We have been a SONOS dealer for years and have sold hundreds of setups each year.

Count me in on tracking this issue. Since last summer we have had multiple clients reporting audio interruptions. This has been affecting multiple different devices across multiple different setups we have sold. The most common device we’ve witnessed having this issue is the Connect Amp. Although we have also seen similar issues with the new Amp as well.

 

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

Pity you did not join the forum here sooner and report your issues, as it may have helped others (and Sonos) to have identified the issue sooner, rather than later. I assume (hope) you’ve been in touch with Sonos since the Summer in an effort to resolve the matters you encountered with your installations?

I personally have had to call SONOS support about this issue twice last week. The best I can get from them is to try and mitigate the problem by hardwiring any devices not already on the physical network. Else they will suggest upgrading. Which is an extreme shock for clients to hear that the system needs to be replaced after 6-7 years of use for $700 each amp.

K

 

Especially after the holidays we have gotten an increased number of calls.

Understood; but the new Amp should not be suffering from the issue on this thread is what I gather from all said here so far.

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