Specifically, it concerns how the S2 app responds to an S1 device on a separate network. My S2 network consists of two Fives (stereo pair) and a One, connected via wi-fi. There is also a separate Play:5 (first generation) hardwired via Ethernet and accessible via S1.
Sometimes -- depending on my location in the house, my S2 app ‘sees’ the Play:5 device first. Quoting from the original post:
I invoke S2 and get the message Sonos found on <my network name>. This system includes products that aren’t compatible with Sonos S2. (In other words, it’s found my S1 system first.)
My options are (a) Open S1 controller or (b) More options
Do I want to open the S1 controller? Nope. I’m in S2 and want to get to S2. So that leaves More options.
Let’s examine those options. There are basically two:
Forget Current Sonos System. Does this mean forget the S1 system (which the S2 app has just found) or the S2 system (because I’m in the S2 app)? If the latter (which I think is the case), I definitely don’t want to do that.
Reset App. Kill the connection and attempt to re-connect to S2, with no guarantee of success? Nope.
Both choices are confusing, and neither is straightforward. As I said at the beginning of this thread, there really should be a third option:
Never attempt to connect to this incompatible product again.
The S2 app could place this product’s serial number on a ‘do not connect’ list that it maintains internally. Or, if that’s too drastic, at least
Ignore this incompatible system and keep trying to find a valid S2 system instead.
With the S1/S2 approach, Sonos has gone to a lot of trouble to allow people to set up configurations that allow older systems to coexist nicely with newer ones. If that’s a real commitment, it seems to me that ultimately, S2 will have to get smarter about how it deals with legacy equipment.
That last sentence says it all. There is no reason why I would ever want to deal with a legacy device on an S2 network. The S2 app should completely ignore such devices, rather than presenting the user with a series of useless, annoying, and somewhat confusing options.
Why can’t this be the case?
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I have no issues with legacy devices. I recommend that you re-install both the S1 and S2 controllers on your pad/phone/computer(s). Power down all of the S1 players as you install the S2 controller(s) Likewise while installing the S1 controllers. Take care while installing a new controller. You want to join an existing system, not setup a new system.
Thanks for this.
I’ve done exactly as suggested. Will monitor things over the next several days and report back if the problem is still occurring.
Sorry to report that the issue is still occurring.
I run an S2 system and two S1 systems on the same network, and have never seen this.
I run both S1 and S2 systems on the same WiFi network/LAN subnet and never had the issue where one controller sees the other devices, but whereas some users in the early days of the S1/S2 split, migrated from an S1 system over to S2 and left their ‘legacy’ devices in the original S1 Sonos Household, which apparently has the same HouseholdID as the new S2 setup, I opted to destroy the S1 legacy setup and created a brand new S1 system with a new HH ID and so "never the twain shall meet”.
I’ve never had an issue of ‘System cross-contamination’ - both systems have performed really well and have remained entirely separate ever since.
I run both S1 and S2 systems on the same WiFi network/LAN subnet and never had the issue where one controller sees the other devices, but whereas some users in the early days of the S1/S2 split, migrated from an S1 system over to S2 and left their ‘legacy’ devices in the original S1 Sonos Household, which apparently has the same HouseholdID as the new S2 setup, I opted to destroy the S1 legacy setup and created a brand new S1 system with a new HH ID and so "never the twain shall meet”.
I’ve never had an issue of ‘System cross-contamination’ - both systems have performed really well and have remained entirely separate ever since.
This is a great point: if both of your systems did have the same household id, then the S2 app would “see” the S1 devices and get confused. The Sonos apps show a “Sonos ID” under Settings/About, but I don’t know if that can be used to diagnose this specific situation.
The only way I know of to see the actual household id of any device is using my iOS app (see profile).
Thanks very much for these inputs. I confess that the household ID issue was never clear to me… when I split my system initially, I thought I was following directions to the letter, but maybe I did something that unwittingly kept the two split systems with the same ID.
In any case, I’ve just factory-reset my one S1 product and (via the S1 iOS app) set up a new S1 system for that product. I then had to use the S2 iOS app to reconnect each of the three S2 devices to the existing S2 system.
Everything is working. I’ll report back in a couple of days whether this has solved the problem.
My Android S1 controller sees all of my S2 speakers and my Android S2 controller sees my S1 speaker. Each shows the others’ speakers as ‘incompatible’ but still lists them all
Is household ID the same as Sonos ID?
I have always thought the reason was because my Sonos/Household ID is the same in each. The reason was when I finally did the S1/S1 split, I wanted to keep my Sonos playlists in the S1 system. If I ever need to do an update I need to power the other system off as the updates seems to install but fail at the last step. Once updated they behave fine.
I may do the reset soon as I’m using the original Play 5 (the only speaker in the S1 system) less now - although I really would like to have my Sonos Playlists available in the reset S1 system.. I assume I just reset it and then create a new system - but I can still use the same email details etc. This will create a new system with a new Sonos ID?..
The HH ID isn’t visible via the App, it’s a ‘behind the scene’ reference and the Sonos ID is a user reference so that stays the same. Anyhow the answer is to reset the S1 devices and App and to create a new system from scratch (use same Sonos account), but sadly it does wipe playlists etc. but there are tools out there to export/import playlists from S2 to S1 but I have not used them but I think @controlav’s App will/might do those things.
Don’t factory reset the PLAY:5 because this will trash your SONOS playlists on the PLAY:5. Critical data is stored in the players, not the controllers..
My suggestion is to power down the S2 SONOS units, remove the S1 controller from all devices and re-install the S1 controller on each device. Take care to join an existing system, don’t create a new system. Next, do the reverse with the S2 controllers. It certainly would not be wrong to uninstall all (S1 and S2) controllers before starting the re-install. The important part is to have all of the ‘other’ system’s units powered down as you install controllers. It’s best that you temporarily have at least one unit wired to the network as you re-install the first controller for its system.
I went through this drill early on and have not had major issues since. Occasionally, marketing will remind me that I haven’t yet ‘upgraded’ the older S1 unit, but I ignore or dismiss the messages.
I’m going to tentatively say that the solution described by Ken Griffiths has solved the problem for me. The solution suggested by buzz did not work for me -- the S2 app still sometimes saw the S1 device, as I reported yesterday.
I’ve not experienced the problem after factory-resetting the S1 device and setting up a new S1 system for that product, as suggested by Griffiths.
All of my playlists are set up in iTunes, so when I re-established my library they all properly appeared. And I had only a couple of saved stations under TuneIn radio, so no big problem there, either.
If by any chance the issue reappears, I’ll report back -- but for now I consider the problem solved. And thanks to everyone…..
Honestly, if I were to see an S1 device in an S2 controller, I’d immediately run a system diagnostic, and call Sonos Support to discuss it. It should never happen. I’m not saying it didn’t, though, but providing them hard data to look at so that the issue could be fixed would be my priority.
The only way I know of to see the actual household id of any device is using my iOS app (see profile).
Go to http://{address of player}:1400/support/review, open a player, and go to it’s Zone Player Info. At the bottom is HouseholdControllD
I’ll note that my S1 and S2 systems are different. This agrees with Ken’s point and throws some clouds on my controller re-install scheme.
Honestly, if I were to see an S1 device in an S2 controller, I’d immediately run a system diagnostic, and call Sonos Support to discuss it. It should never happen. I’m not saying it didn’t, though, but providing them hard data to look at so that the issue could be fixed would be my priority.
Here you go, here’s my S1 and S2 screens….
S1: (shows S2 speakers that ‘Needs update’). All are up to date.
S2: (shows Front Room as incompatible)
I arrived at this position by upgrading to S2 while the Front Room S1 speaker was powered off.
Interestingly, each system shows a different HH ID in the Zone Player Info screen. Without a fuller understanding of how the HH ID is derived, I’d have expected them to be the same as I still have all playlists etc. available on each system. The Single Play:5 (Front Room) connects to the network through Sonosnet too.
Maybe I need to take the plunge and reset the S1 system and set it up again and lose the playlists etc.
Honestly, if I were to see an S1 device in an S2 controller, I’d immediately run a system diagnostic, and call Sonos Support to discuss it. It should never happen. I’m not saying it didn’t, though, but providing them hard data to look at so that the issue could be fixed would be my priority.
Here you go, here’s my S1 and S2 screens….
S1: (shows S2 speakers that ‘Needs update’). All are up to date.
S2: (shows Front Room as incompatible)
I arrived at this position by upgrading to S2 while the Front Room S1 speaker was powered off.
Interestingly, each system shows a different HH ID in the Zone Player Info screen. Without a fuller understanding of how the HH ID is derived, I’d have expected them to be the same as I still have all playlists etc. available on each system. The Single Play:5 (Front Room) connects to the network through Sonosnet too.
Maybe I need to take the plunge and reset the S1 system and set it up again and lose the playlists etc.
You can always export your Sonos playlists and play them between S1 and S2 systems with my iOS app.
@sjw,
My thoughts are to take the plunge and reset the S1 system, but first I would look around at the 3rd party options online to export/import the existing playlists that you have now and (hooefully) that may help to reduce the work needed to recreate the existing S1 setup.
I don't have (or have access to) an iOS device unfortunately.
