Placing In-Ceiling Speakers vs Ceiling Mounted Era 300s for Surrounds

Welcome!

The Era 300’s can only officially be mounted on a wall either on the side or rear of the seating area. By official I mean there is no approve ceiling application for mounting.

The other option is to use Era 300 stands on either side of seating area.

Also, in-ceiling speakers do not provide Dolby Atmos as do the Era 300’s.

Edit: Nice diagram but it’s difficult to determine where the TV is placed in reference to the seating area and walls. Sometimes a less detailed diagram is better. We just need a crude representation of walls and TV placement 😊

Thanks! I know there’s no official Sonos ceiling mount for the 300s but I did see that they now support upside down mounting in software so was hoping that that might make it a decent possibility. Ideally for aesthetics the In-Ceiling speakers would be better of course but I’m just curious on if anyone knows how they might sound with the modified placement of the left speaker (or bringing both speakers in equally).

Unfortunately floor stands aren’t an option so I’m limited to the ceiling.

Edit: updated the diagram to include the TV and rough couch placement! The diagram was the one from our electrician so it was what I easily had haha. Hope it’s a bit more clear now but can try and make a simpler one

I've never been impressed with ceiling speakers for other than background music. As surrounds the placement is suboptimal and you get no Atmos, something I really like.

Maybe in-wall speakers, still no Atmos but maybe a better position for surrounds.

If stands are not possible then the ceiling or wall mounted 300s would be my choice. I have two 300 Pairs well positioned and one very poorly positioned, all sound a lot better playing stereo than ceiling ones. The Atmos, even on the worst positioned ones is great to not-bad. Couldn't fit them in our TV room so we use 100s as surrounds, good but a BIG step down in surround and Atmos sound.

On a small screen so can't say much a out the drawing.

That definitely helps. Yeah I was really hoping for the 8” speakers as I thought those might be adequate enough but have been worried about the sound from the 6” - especially without perfect symmetrical placement or having them be too close to each other

Hearing horses running onto the rear of the sound stage, overhead is odd, helicopters there are fine. I'd find that first bit a lot more aggravation than slightly weak sound from the 6 inchers or minor placement issues.

You could add a two six inch ones to each channel. Three if you use the Sonos/Sonance ones.

Full Trueplay (supported Apple device required) might mitigate the placement issue.

Yeah I was definitely going to do the Sonos/Sonance speakers and TruePlay them if I went with the in-ceilings. When you say add two six inch to each channel what do you mean exactly? Can’t quite picture what you’re describing 

Yeah… ​@Stanley_4 what are you suggesting here? The mention of “three” has me confused as we are talking about surrounds.

The Amp can drive two conventional 8 Ohm speakers or three of the Sonos ones on each channel. You simply wire them in parallel on each channel. You get more sound (air moving) from the increased cone area, but a less precise sonic image, really not something ceiling speakers are good at anyway.

The trade is that in going with multiple speakers you'll not be driving the speakers as hard, keeping them in their optimum sound quality range instead of maxing out cone movement.

Bigger, well big enough, is better but multiple ssmaller are better than over-driven single small ones.

​@harperpeck 

Looking at your new diagram 😊 I see what you mean about the speakers being asymmetrical in placement. However if you don’t plan on re-arranging furniture (which is also a downside to in ceiling speakers) you could bring the in-ceiling speakers closer to the ends of the couch and 1 foot behind which could give you a better surround effect.

Yeah I considered that but I think we’ll also likely have some chairs around the right side and also something just mentally feels weird to me to not have the speakers centered around the TV even though I probably could get a bit of better sound by centering them around the couch positions. But furniture will likely move around so I think the safest bet is to center the soundstage around the center of the TV.

I guess at this point I really just need to decide if I should go with the in-ceilings having either the left one misaligned or pull the right one in to match - or ceiling mount Era 300s in my original spots (or really anywhere that would work best since electric isn’t installed yet)

Whoa…are you planning to place surround speakers on either side of the TV? If so you won’t have any surround effect. In fact the resulting audio may be completely muddled.

Also, even you were planning not to use them as surrounds but using them to compliment the soundbar will create an echo effect due to a 75ms delay with TV audio. 

​@AjTrek1 sorry maybe I didn’t accurately describe it. Attached another drawing that might be more clear. The Sonos/Sonance in ceilings connected to the Amp would be used at the rear surrounds for the Arc Ultra. As far as I thought that was a compatible setup and wouldn’t result in any delay?

edit: just to clarify when I said centered on either side of the  TV I meant behind the couch but equally spread from the center line of the TV

Thanks for clarifying 👍

Do you have any thoughts on what might sound better between having the in-ceiling speakers like the above diagram (or even pulling the right speaker farther to the left to make it more symmetrical with the left one) vs. ceiling mounting 2 Era 300s?

You have several challenges that I wouldn’t have easy answers for…first, ceiling mounts are a challenge for the Era 300. Sonos doesn’t make any, so it’s questionable how effective third party version would be with the sound field that the Era 300 projects.

Then there is the whole Atmos issue. If you go with ceiling speakers, they won’t be capable of playing Atmos. 

I’d really be tempted to put Era 300s on  speaker stands, situated behind the couch. Perhaps more intrusive, but certainly more capable. 

Huh. Flexson seems to have Era 300 ceiling mounts. 
 

Yeah I definitely agree that floor stands would be best. Unfortunately there’s a kitchen island just behind the couch to the right and the pathway is already narrow as is and adding anything back there even as minimally invasive as floor stands would reduce an already narrow walkway (in addition to it being vetoed by the family for aesthetic reasons) so I’m kind of limited to only in-ceiling speakers or ceiling mounted speakers…

edit: ​@Airgetlam yeah those Flexson ceiling mounts were the exact ones that I would consider if I didn’t do the in-ceiling speakers

I hear you, and feel for you…but in ceiling surround speakers would need to be powered by a Sonos Amp, which can’t do Atmos. 

Yep that’s the tradeoff. It’s either no atmos with a non-optimal placement for 6” in-ceilings (although I would trueplay everything for whatever that’s worth), or I get atmos by ceiling mounting the 300s (which also isn’t ideal for those speakers). Just really not sure what will sound better. Also worth noting that the ceiling is pretty high (I think it’s like 11’) so it’s really non-ideal all around

The 300s are going to sound better.

The 300s support invented wall mounts so I don't see the ceiling ones being a problem.

Two pairs of six inch ceiling speakers would likely give you similar sound levels but the positioning, either non-symetrical or compressed spacing, won't be great for imaging.

​@harperpeck 

Just FYI….Dolby Atmos effects depend heavily upon surfaces to reflect sound back to the viewer/listener to create a bubble. Larger rooms will struggle to achieve the same results as a room that is more compact. Looking at the diagram below the room on the left (#1) represents sound waves that are properly reflected by room surfaces (walls and ceilings). The room on the right (#2)  illustrates sound waves that travel but have less reflectivity.

The irregularity of the design of your space may not yield the desired effect of Dolby Atmos; as the reflective surfaces appear to be very distant. That’s just to say that your experience with Dolby Atmos may be less dynamic than would be in a smaller/differently shaped space.

None of my Atmos capable rooms are good ones for sound but in every one of them Atmos music is noticeable and seems to fill the room better than stereo. Atmos TV I have far less experience with and mainly with 100s as surrounds, but I'd still say Atmos sounds better than normal 5.1 material. I had 300s as surrounds for a few days and they were a lot better than the 100s, even poorly positioned. Never found a spot the spouse would accept, leading to the 100s instead. 

Playing Dolby Labs test tracks has helped me arrange and balance things as well as possible. I'd love to have a better room  and be able to get more out of Atmos but that isn't happening.

​@harperpeck 

Just FYI….Dolby Atmos effects depend heavily upon surfaces to reflect sound back to the viewer/listener to create a bubble. Larger rooms will struggle to achieve the same results as a room that is more compact. Looking at the diagram below the room on the left (#1) represents sound waves that are properly reflected by room surfaces (walls and ceilings). The room on the right (#2)  illustrates sound waves that travel but have less reflectivity.

 

The irregularity of the design of your space may not yield the desired effect of Dolby Atmos; as the reflective surfaces appear to be very distant. That’s just to say that your experience with Dolby Atmos may be less dynamic than would be in a smaller/differently shaped space.

Thats super interesting to see. Makes total sense but I never really thought about it that much. Yeah this room definitely won’t be getting the most dynamic sound.

​@Stanley_4 I think you’re making quite the case for the 300s. I think I just realized what I should probably do. I think my electrician should be able to run both speaker wire and electric quite easily so why don’t I just put in both. Try them both out. See what sounds better. If the era-300s are better then I can either just return the in-ceilings and put a speaker grill to cover the hole or just have an extra pair of speakers in my ceiling which isn’t the worst problem to have.

I really would prefer the aesthetics of the in-ceilings but if the Eras do end up being a vast improvement then it’s not the end of the world.

Only question left is what I should do about the positioning for the in-ceilings. Pull in the right speaker a bit to match the left or leave it like the diagram and have the left one closer to center

If you decide that the Era 300’s do sound better then here’s a suggestion (assuming the budget will allow).

Keep the in-ceiling speakers and set them as a separate room. You can then use then alone for music as an ambient source and/or group them with the Arc Ultra for music and blast the room 😂

​@AjTrek1 I was thinking that exact thing 😂 would definitely be fun to have it all lol

In regards to the in-ceilings though do you think I should pull the right speaker in to match the left? And then maybe place the 300s farther out where I had originally planned to put the in ceilings (and maybe a little bit farther back too)