This must surely be a function of the Airplay volume setting on the device that you playing from?  Just make sure that is low when you start.  I don’t think Sonos speaker volumes reset themselves.

It’s a puzzler. It doesn’t matter what the volume is set to on iPad or Sonos speakers before I connect to sonos with AirPlay. As soon as it connects the volume of both speakers leaps up to loud. 

In an effort to be more precise, the Play:3 volume leaps to about 75% and the One SL volume leaps up to about 25%. This suspiciously adds up to 100%. Very odd. I just tested it again. All was playing happily. I switched to play BBC Sounds from Sonos via AirPlay back to playing on my ipad, then switched back to Sonos via AirPlay. The One SL unmuted and jumped to 25% and the play:3 jumped up to 75%.

it makes the dog jump.

have just submitted diagnostics to Sonos, not sure what that achieves, 293342727.

Just tried a further test.

played the music quietly on iPad then switched to Sonos via AirPlay. The volume on Sonos jumped up.

played the music loud on iPad then switched to AirPlay. The volume on Sonos lowered.

this is doing my head in. 

I suspect it’s an issue with the BBC sounds app and/on on whatever device you are using that from rather than the Sonos device.  But i could be wrong.

When playing via Airplay the volume on the iPad/Phone changes to a different volume setting denoted by an Airplay symbol on the volume graphic.  So when you next play via Airplay be sure to set the volume using the iphone or ipad volume buttons, and once you disconnect and reconnect this will be the volume Airplay will play at.  This is different to the volume set when playing on the iPhone speakers or the Sonos app.

OK.  I don’t usually use Airplay, or indeed anything Apple, but I borrowed my wife’ iPad to have a play with this.  I think this is how it works.

If you start playing on the iPad, then the Airplay volume slider will control the volume on the iPad.  Or you can use the physical buttons on the iPad but it will still move the slider (of course).

In a ‘normal’ scenario of then switching playing to an Airplay-compatible Sonos speaker, the existing Sonos volume for that speaker will be ‘adopted’ by the iPad airplay volume slider.  (If you think about it for a moment, this is the only sane protocol to have.)  So if the volume is jumping up or down, this is because it is using whatever volume the speaker is currently set to for launch. Thereafter any change to the iPad volume slider will be mirrored for the Sonos slider and vice versa.

In your situation, it seems to me that you have to play to the Airplay speaker and then group, so the initial volume will be determined by the setting on the One.  Once you group, the existing Sonos volume on the Play;3 will determine what it starts at.  The iPad volume slider appears to follow the Sonos group volume slider.

That’s how it looks to me, anyhow.  I think the takeaway for you is: set the volumes in the Sonos app before you start and continue to control volume from there.  Just use the Apple device to start the Airplay stream.

So i think my initial, earlier guess was incorrect.

I don’t think this is correct.  When you switch from playing on the device to Airplaying to a speaker, the speaker volume setting determines the initial play volume.  The Airplay volume control jumps into line.

The two volume sliders then move in sync.  Device physical buttons move both sliders, as it has to be.

The volume at which you are playing on the iPad / iPhone before you engage Airplay is totally irrelevant to the volume you get when Airplay starts.

At least, that is how it looks to me.

Thank you both very much for your input. I remain baffled really.

BBC Sounds app does not have a volume control in it and the One SL and Play;3 are permanently grouped.

just tried it this morning starting off with the volume low on my iPad and noticed that when I connected to Sonos via AirPlay the Sonos volume started low (probably at the last volume it was set to) and then within a few seconds leapt up way high. I could see the group volume sliders start low and then leap up.

It’s barmy and I think I’m gonna blame AirPlay since the Sonos volume seems to change after it has started playing.

The inverse relationship between iPad volume and where Sonos ends up is even more weird.

I’m a software developer and am used to testing software interactions but this has me beaten - it is so hard to figure out which of the three bits of software is going wrong.

Mine works absolutely consistently, and in the way I would expect, and I cannot reproduce the behaviour you describe.  Also, I tried to reproduce your scenario by Airplaying to an Airplay-compatible speaker grouped with a non-Airplay compatible speaker.  As soon as the Airplay started, the group broke apart and the music played only on the Airplay-compatible.  I had to group the non-Airplay compatible speaker to the Airplay compatible one after play started. So I am puzzled by your saying that these speakers are ‘permanently grouped’.

I seem to observe this behaviour irrespective of what I am playing -- YouTube, BBC Sounds, whatever.  I don’t think BBC Sounds has anything to do with this.  Again, this is what I would expect.

Edit: Just realised there is an option for keeping non-Airplay products grouped.  I don’t normally use Airplay!

Are you using the control centre on the iPad as illustrated in this screenshot?

@John B Do you have Group Non-Airplay Products set on in the settings?

Hi @bockersjv .  Thanks for that.  I discovered this shortly before your post and edited post above.  Subsequent experiments are making me think the issue the OP is having are related to the unusual situation of Airplaying to an Airplay speaker that is muted, grouped with a non-Airplay compatible speaker that isn’t muted.

@Iggit .  As an experiment, please take the mute off of the Airplay compatible speaker and see how the volume behaves when you switch between iPad audio and Sonos.  Airplay doesn’t know your Play:3 speaker exists, and i suspect you are confusing it by asking it to play to a muted speaker.

Still a bit speculative, but seems to fit the experiments i have done.

Edit: a possible workaround may be to slide the One’s volume slider to zero then tap once on the bar to leave the speaker virtually inaudible rather than muted.  Or maybe you can set a very low volume limit on that speaker.  Depends on how you subsequently control volume.

Or sell the Play:3 and get a Five, or a One SL to make a stereo pair.

I owe you both many thanks for your help so far. @John B , I am indeed using the iPad control centre to switch to AirPlay. @bockersjv - I have it set to group non AirPlay speakers so they do indeed stay grouped.

I have tried @John B  suggestion to unmute the One SL, and that was a very good idea. With the One SL(AirPlay compatible) speaker unmuted the volume does not change when I switch to AirPlay and your explanation makes a lot of sense.

As far as the iPad is concerned, I am telling it to send the audio to a muted device so either Sonos or AirPlay then unmutes the OneSL.

Either Sonos or AirPlay then makes the amusing decision to increase the volume of the One SL to an almost random (certainly not restoring it to the setting it had when I muted it) level and Sonos then increases the play;3 volume because it is grouped with the One SL.

The subsequent drawback with having the One SL unmuted is that it’s volume increases when I increase the group volume if it is not muted. If I start off quiet (when wife is asleep) and then increase volume  (when wife is awake) the loud One SL tinniness becomes noticeable.

I only have the one AirPlay device so can’t test with non-Sonos devices but my money is on Sonos causing all this behaviour. I would much prefer the software to do what I tell it and leave any extra behaviour to be configured via settings. So, I would have everything leave the AirPlay speaker as it is set, muted or unmuted, and have a Sonos setting under the AirPlay settings to unmute when switching source to AirPlay. That would leave the locus of control with the user, which is a recommended objective for software developers. As it stands I am not in control as I do not feel it is doing what I am telling it to do.

Buying new kit is the obvious solution but has the drawback of being rather expensive for me right now. I should have followed the Sonos chief exec’s (?) very amusing suggestion a while back by replacing all my Sonos kit (circa £1000) because he had decided it was all obsolete two years after I had invested in it. Remember the uproar after that one?

I’ll make do with what I have for now but I am pretty sure it’s down to a failing of Sonos since Sonos is doing the grouping and most likely it is Sonos that is trying to adjust the volumes in response to an activation from AirPlay. 
 

Thanks again for all your help on this.

Oops, missed off the volume limit idea. Have set extremely low volume limit one One SL. This works just as I need it, genius.

With volume limit set to naff all, I can leave the One SL unmuted and the Play;3 volume does not jump up. Brilliant, problem solved. 
 

I have finally found a use for a volume limit setting, having avoided them for 50 years!

Hi.  I am pleased to have helped, but I have to challenge a couple of points.  In particular:

“I should have followed the Sonos chief exec’s (?) very amusing suggestion a while back by replacing all my Sonos kit (circa £1000) because he had decided it was all obsolete two years after I had invested in it. Remember the uproar after that one?”

I do indeed remember the uproar, but you have totally misrepresented it here.  Neither of the speakers mentioned here was in any way affected by that - both are compatible with the S2 system, are fully supported and can benefit from future enhancements.  Even the devices that were affected - older devices having only 32MB of memory - are still usable in an S1 system.

Airplay is a different matter.  This was a free upgrade when brought in.  Sonos made it available on all speakers that had the hardware necessary to support it.  So my gen 2 Play:5s got a freebie.  But some speakers simply could not have this added.  Nevertheless, Sonos made it possible to Airplay to speakers that could not do Airplay, by grouping.  Big tick for Sonos, in my view, and the opposite of trying to force people to upgrade.

Your use case of trying to Airplay to a muted speaker is very rare and I am not surprised things go a bit haywire.  This is not, IMO, a ‘failure’ of Sonos.

In short, your criticism is wholly unjustified.

I guess we remember it differently. My Play:5 1st gen  and bridge are not Sonos 2 compatible and at the time of the first announcement there was no mention of S1 and S2 apps - they just said all old kit will stop working. That’s what the uproar was about. The result of the uproar was the creation of two apps and I recall getting an apology from Sonos saying that they got it wrong and were sorry.

I guess I’m still upset about the way they handled it.

 I was incorrect to say that I would have to replace all my kit. Just the Play 5 and bridge - a total of £600. Later they offered upgrade discounts to bring that down to £460. 

I’m fine with old kit not getting new features just less fine with it ceasing to operate after two years, especially when it is otherwise such great kit.

There is a bug in there somewhere because, in my opinion, unmute should restore the previous volume setting, but I happily accept that my use case is an odd one.

I think there is still a bug in there somewhere as unmute should restore the previous volume setting rather than choose a new one.

This is getting off topic, so enough said. Thanks so much for helping with my problem - I no longer surprise the dog or wake my wife when I turn on the radio.

Hi - OK.  I think there was a lot of misunderstanding around at the time, and Sonos certainly handled the communications badly.  But there was never any suggestion that the devices affected were any other than the Bridge, Play:5 gen 1 and some older Connects and Connect:Amps and their predecessors, all of which had to be at least five years old, and in many cases were much older.  Sonos can operate with any Sonos device wired, or with none - a replacement for the Bridge is not required. 

You also need to bear in mind that when you use Airplay, you are not really using the Sonos system, just a bunch of Airplay compatible Sonos speakers.  And thanks to Sonos you are airplaying to a speaker that isn’t Airplay compatible, and controlling its volume from the Airplay control centre (which doesn’t even know that speaker exists).  I think its an achievement that it can be made to work at all, not that it is imperfect.

But anyway, I am very glad we managed to find you a workable solution.  

Btw, the Five is a much better speaker than the gen 1 Play:5, and definitely worth the upgrade!  £350 with the upgrade discount, less whatever you can recoup by selling the Play:5.