So with Sonos integrating Amazon Echo within their eco system a couple of questions:
- If I install an Amazon Echo Dot in each room that I have Sonos speakers in will I be able to assign that particular dot to that rooms speakers? For example, I don't want to ask Alexa a question and then have all of the households Sonos speakers respond.
- I assume using the Dots that as well as having full control of Sonos Music system I will also have full use of the usual Amazon Echo services i.e. Alexa, what's the weather forecast, and it will use that particular rooms Sonos speakers to respond?
The potential is quite compelling if it's implemented well but good to get some clarification.
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"They'll release it when it's done" is a banal and sarcastic answer and doesn't add anything to the discussion. I think people are asking if anyone has heard anything about when that will be, and unfortunately it seems like no, Sonos has left us hanging since saying 'early 2017' last year.
I wish they'd come out and give us some more info. Even an updated guess would be appreciated.
I wish they'd come out and give us some more info. Even an updated guess would be appreciated.
I wish they'd come out and give us some more info. Even an updated guess would be appreciated.
Sonos never said "early 2017". They said "general release in 2017". Some, me included, assumed it would be early 2017. We were incorrect in our assumptions. That's not Sonos' fault, for they have never said anything except that it will be released to the general public sometime in 2017.
https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-alexa-coming-to-sonos-music-systems/
This article says "expanded to public release in early 2017". Maybe the article was wrong, but I'm pretty confident I heard this from multiple sources last year.
https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-alexa-coming-to-sonos-music-systems/
This article says "expanded to public release in early 2017". Maybe the article was wrong, but I'm pretty confident I heard this from multiple sources last year.
Sonos won't release, even to Beta(s), until/unless it is in a fit state so to do.
Unfortunately there is no agreed definition of the word "early". In the parlance of Sonos development "early" could simply be a label they put on anything that happens before Christmas.
https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-alexa-coming-to-sonos-music-systems/
This article says "expanded to public release in early 2017". Maybe the article was wrong, but I'm pretty confident I heard this from multiple sources last year.
The only official Sonos document stated what I quoted. Everything else is second hand, which given the state of the press nowadays, can be assumed to be sketchy. There are in fact articles where the original "quote" of "early 2017" has been subsequntly corrected. Me, I also assumed early 2017 and was wrong, so now I trust only the original source.
Either way, it's coming. Kvetching over the intended release dates isn't going to add or subtract a single minute on the engineering development time. It will be here when it is ready, no sooner.
Cute and cutting commentary, as is your shtick. Too bad nobody from Sonos has ever used the words "early 2017" in regards to the Alexa integration release. Mayhaps you should try "poking" them somewhere else.
Wow, only one official document exists on this? I'd love to see a link!
Right, see my original post. I'm a software engineer, I'm very aware of how dates work in engineering ha. Novembuarytoberish.
Wow, only one official document exists on this? I'd love to see a link!
This is a link to the official Sonos press release for the Alexa integration:
http://press-us.sonos.com/134980-sonos-with-partners-and-industry-leaders-ushers-in-new-era-of-connected-home-listening
If you can find another official press release that says differently, feel free to post it.
I don't buy the idea that stand alone Echo devices would cut into Sonos sales. Yes you may have someone who just uses a regular echo and doesn't buy a Play:1 or who uses a Dot and avoids having to buy a Connect. So yes you would lose sales there. But when those people purchased those entry level Echo devices..... you just put Sonos capability into probably 10 million homes. When those people decide to go buy a more critical listening speaker where do they then go (Bose....Samsung....Denon) .... they go out and start buying Sonos units. So you may lose several hundered thousand units sold where people didn't buy a Play:1 or Connect. You potentially added millions of units in sales to people who would never have joined the Sonos echosystem.
With Amazon's announcement of the new Echo having multi-room capabilities, you still think Sonos isn't losing sales?
There are probably 2 different markets for these speakers. There is the home theater/stereo market. Then there's the multi-room market. Amazon (Google and Apple too) are taking a large chunk of the multi-room market. If people go to Amazon for the multi-room aspect, then they might be less likely to go to Sonos for the "high end" speaker.
Sonos has quality speakers. But their real selling point, what set them apart form their competitors, was the multi-room aspect. Now I fear they've missed the boat by not getting into voice control sooner and on a larger scale.
*double post
With Amazon's announcement of the new Echo having multi-room capabilities, you still think Sonos isn't losing sales?
Actually, the updated the firmware on existing echos, it's not just new echos that can do this.
There are probably 2 different markets for these speakers. There is the home theater/stereo market. Then there's the multi-room market. Amazon (Google and Apple too) are taking a large chunk of the multi-room market. If people go to Amazon for the multi-room aspect, then they might be less likely to go to Sonos for the "high end" speaker.
I don't think it's quite that simple. First off, people have varying levels of quality requirements. That means many won't us echo speakers until they vastly improve the quality. Second, people are going to look for different features in the same speaker system. Meaning, some may be fine with amazon for multi-room, but what it incorporated in home theatre, so opt for sonos. Then there is cost as a factor.
That said, I think you are generally right. There are people who may have gone for sonos that will be satisfied with Amazon echo system now. No doubt. However, I'd argue that Amazon expanded the market and will bring more customers to Sonos that may never have been in the market if it were not for voice control. I'd guess Sonos will gain as many customers as it theoretically loses...if not more.
Sonos has quality speakers. But their real selling point, what set them apart form their competitors, was the multi-room aspect. Now I fear they've missed the boat by not getting into voice control sooner and on a larger scale.
I'd say it is part of it. There is also ease of control and music selection, as well as good quality. Really, sonos was losing some customers to echo before echo went multiroom, just because echo was even easier to control.
If I were to guess who the 'big losers' are in the changes in the audio market, I'd say it's the amp/receiver makers and to a lesser extent, the passive bookshelf speaker makers. That really has been happening for a while as people start using Bluetooth speakers and such.
Very very little actually runs on an Echo Dot or Alexa client (embedded Alexa clients in apps like Amazon Music are a slightly different story.) The Alexa skills almost completely running in the Alexa cloud.
Anyway, the Sonos "voice control" event is Wednesday, this week, let's see what happens before making any losers or winners decisions. We might get the date for the firmware update allowing Alexa control of all existing Sonos hardware.
We might even get the firmware update itself!
We might! Wouldn't that be cool?
On a more general point, why do companies play this cat & mouse game regarding product launches? We are grown ups, so why not just announce what new products you are intending to launch with approximate launch dates so customers know what is coming, what they might buy and when?
Instead we have to make do with gossip, rumour, leaked photos etc. We are treated like children awaiting Christmas and the anticipation of what to expect in terms of presents we may or may not receive.
Do Sonos and other tech companies reap any advantages from this attitude? Even if they do, what about the customer?
Instead we have to make do with gossip, rumour, leaked photos etc. We are treated like children awaiting Christmas and the anticipation of what to expect in terms of presents we may or may not receive.
Do Sonos and other tech companies reap any advantages from this attitude? Even if they do, what about the customer?
@biffta, I'd disagree with that. Although many can understand that the process of bringing a new product or upgrade to market is completely under control, there are many customers that really don't want to hear it. They just want it now and think the company should move the moon, no matter the cost, to bring it to them. There are still customers out there are upset that Sonos didn't do this in the first qtr of this year, even though Sonos never said they would. They were bothered enough by it that they promised to switch to Apple homepod, even though it doesn't exist and wasn't likely to come out before Sonos integration.
Then there is the fact there is a company has to be concerned about the track record. A customer may be ok with a missed deadline once, but if it becomes a pattern, then they start losing faith in the company. It makes more sense to avoid that.
Then there is marketing. What's going to keep customers more interested? You could argue that Apple's early announcement of the Homepod is going to make the actual realize feel a little anti-climatic. Rumors and gossip can keep customers interested for longer...it seems.
But where is the downside to all this? It's possible customers may buy something else why they wait, but I don't know that it applies for this release, since there isn't something else to buy at the moment. Not equivalent anyway.
That said, I do like how Amazon seems to do it. They don't do press releases till they are very close. And then they give themselves a buffer and deliver early if it's possible.
Then there is the fact there is a company has to be concerned about the track record. A customer may be ok with a missed deadline once, but if it becomes a pattern, then they start losing faith in the company. It makes more sense to avoid that.
Then there is marketing. What's going to keep customers more interested? You could argue that Apple's early announcement of the Homepod is going to make the actual realize feel a little anti-climatic. Rumors and gossip can keep customers interested for longer...it seems.
But where is the downside to all this? It's possible customers may buy something else why they wait, but I don't know that it applies for this release, since there isn't something else to buy at the moment. Not equivalent anyway.
That said, I do like how Amazon seems to do it. They don't do press releases till they are very close. And then they give themselves a buffer and deliver early if it's possible.
I agree entirely with @melvimbe. It is certain customers who are themselves acting like children who can't wait for Christmas. ''I want it NOW - waaaaaaa'.
Are we nearly there yet?
Are we nearly there yet?
There are probably 2 different markets for these speakers. There is the home theater/stereo market. Then there's the multi-room market. Amazon (Google and Apple too) are taking a large chunk of the multi-room market. If people go to Amazon for the multi-room aspect, then they might be less likely to go to Sonos for the "high end" speaker.
I don't think it's quite that simple. First off, people have varying levels of quality requirements. That means many won't us echo speakers until they vastly improve the quality. Second, people are going to look for different features in the same speaker system. Meaning, some may be fine with amazon for multi-room, but what it incorporated in home theatre, so opt for sonos. Then there is cost as a factor.
I think we're saying the same thing here. I mentioned there are 2 markets, 1)multi-room and 2)high end home theater.
That said, I think you are generally right. There are people who may have gone for sonos that will be satisfied with Amazon echo system now. No doubt. However, I'd argue that Amazon expanded the market and will bring more customers to Sonos that may never have been in the market if it were not for voice control. I'd guess Sonos will gain as many customers as it theoretically loses...if not more.
I disagree with this. Sonos' key feature was the multi-room aspect, which previously led people to buy their higher end products because they already had the Play1. Now, if customers get an Echo rather than a Play1, they're not tied in to having to get the higher end Sonos product.
Sonos has quality speakers. But their real selling point, what set them apart form their competitors, was the multi-room aspect. Now I fear they've missed the boat by not getting into voice control sooner and on a larger scale.
I'd say it is part of it. There is also ease of control and music selection, as well as good quality. Really, sonos was losing some customers to echo before echo went multiroom, just because echo was even easier to control.
I'm speaking directly from my experience in this regard. I was originally intrigued by Echo. But the fact that Sonos was able to do multi-room while Echo could not, was absolutely what caused me to go with Sonos.
Are we nearly there yet?
Blame the customer doesn't seem like the best strategy. Sonos could have said "late" 2017 way back at the August 2016 announcement and set expectations correctly. If they delivered early they would have been heroes and if they didn't they still would be right on time. I think they just didn't want to admit how long this was going to take for fear people would jump ship so they kind of let people talk publicly about early 2017 without attempting to correct them.
I do agree that Amazon has been very market savvy this year:
-They release some new product or feature every month so people's focus doesn't wander.
-When they announce something it is available within weeks not months. Sometimes it is available immediately.
Also they have been very good at quickly responding to new market challenges:
-Google Home added phone calling - Echo can now do in-app phone calls, video calls, calls to any outside number and soon make and receive calls from a land line.
-Apple said any digital assistants should have a screen - Amazon released (not just announced) the Show.
-Google bragged that you can change the skin on a Google Home - Echo Gen2 has interchangeable skins.
-Apple emphasized speaker fidelity - Echo Gen2 and Echo+ have improved fidelity AND at a lower price not only than Apple but lower than their own Gen1 product AND will ship at the end of this month while Apple is still shooting for December. All the new Echos also have a line-out jack so there is plenty of flexibility to connect to upscale amps and speakers if desired.
-Amazon was criticized for not providing a way to block unwanted callers on their new phone feature. They didn't argue with users trying to justify their bad design but rather just fixed it within a couple of weeks.
-The Echo was not taken seriously by many because you could not group them to play in sync. Now you can and as a bonus those sync groups are persistent and do not have to be undone to play a speaker by itself if you want.
I don't know how long they can keep it up but so far Amazon seems to have the right formula for delivering what they promise at a pace that matches customer expectations.
I disagree with this. Sonos' key feature was the multi-room aspect, which previously led people to buy their higher end products because they already had the Play1. Now, if customers get an Echo rather than a Play1, they're not tied in to having to get the higher end Sonos product.
How many of those echo customers are buying it for multiroom? I'd bet few, since Amazon barely even mentions it as a feature. How many echo customers then discover that they like multiroom, but really wish they had better sound quality, or that they can't get sound from the tv, or what have you?
Personally, I don't think there are a lot of customers that really care about multiroom, but aren't interested in sound quality beyond what an echo can provide. They may use the mutiroom because it's there, but it wasn't a selling point for them.
But it's opinion, so, whatever.
I'm speaking directly from my experience in this regard. I was originally intrigued by Echo. But the fact that Sonos was able to do multi-room while Echo could not, was absolutely what caused me to go with Sonos.
And other customers are going to come from different angles. I was interested in sonos originally because of their ability to play mp3 wirelessly. I wasn't interested in multiroom at all. I did eventually get a couple more for multiroom, but still wasn't interested in sonos speakers. I ended up inheriting sonos speakers and bought a few more after that point.
I know another person who was only interested in an easy to control home theatre, so when with that setup. No interest in multiroom whatsoever. Then there are other s who chose echo for voice control. I would not be surprise if they upgrade to sonos with voice control after a point, for the better sound quality. The seal is broken for them and a sonos systems doesn't seem to far out of reach.
But again, it's opinion.
How many of those echo customers are buying it for multiroom? I'd bet few, since Amazon barely even mentions it as a feature. How many echo customers then discover that they like multiroom, but really wish they had better sound quality, or that they can't get sound from the tv, or what have you?
Personally, I don't think there are a lot of customers that really care about multiroom, but aren't interested in sound quality beyond what an echo can provide. They may use the mutiroom because it's there, but it wasn't a selling point for them.
But it's opinion, so, whatever.
Of course people buy products for various different reasons. But I don't think there's any denying that voice controlled speakers are one of the hottest tech products right now, if not the hottest.
It may seem like I'm coming across as bashing Sonos. That's not my intent. I love my Sonos speakers. I just don't want them to become extinct.
Anyway, the Sonos "voice control" event is Wednesday, this week, let's see what happens before making any losers or winners decisions. We might get the date for the firmware update allowing Alexa control of all existing Sonos hardware.
For the multi room experience I think we can probably pick a winner. Yes, there is a sound quality difference. But you can get a Play1 for $199 and an Echo Dot for $50. Or, you can get an Echo for $100 (or a Dot for $50). If you expand that to 5 rooms, that's $1,250 for Play1/Dot, or $500 for Echo.
History has shown that the cheapest product is not always the market winner, even when features are similar. Apple products are a good example. The Beats headphones may be a better example. Perhaps bluetooth speakers may be the best. There is wide range of quality and price, and plenty of room for all needs.
And absolutely, that doesn't mean that the cheapest isn't the best or market winner. I think Amazon does have a decent reputation for quality and will very well satisfy a lot of people. Then again, I'd argue that the person who is satisfied with an Amazon multiroom system likely was never going to by a Sonos system to begin with.
Lastly, Sonos doesn't have to win. They don't have to have to most sales or largest % of the market. They only need to be profitable.
And absolutely, that doesn't mean that the cheapest isn't the best or market winner. I think Amazon does have a decent reputation for quality and will very well satisfy a lot of people. Then again, I'd argue that the person who is satisfied with an Amazon multiroom system likely was never going to by a Sonos system to begin with.
Lastly, Sonos doesn't have to win. They don't have to have to most sales or largest % of the market. They only need to be profitable.
For the multi room experience I think we can probably pick a winner. Yes, there is a sound quality difference. But you can get a Play1 for $199 and an Echo Dot for $50. Or, you can get an Echo for $100 (or a Dot for $50). If you expand that to 5 rooms, that's $1,250 for Play1/Dot, or $500 for Echo.
Comparing a Dot to a Play:1 is like comparing the single earphone that I used to listen to my transister back in the 70's to a pair of Sennheiser headphones. The Dot by very definition is low fidelity meant for voice responses only. Comparing that to the Play:1 is disingenuous at best. Will there be people happy with the Dot for music playback? Sure, but those types iof "cheaper is best, the hell with sound quality" are not Sonos' market in the first place.
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