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Seeking Advice: Upgrading Legacy Sonos System

A
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Hello Everyone,

After a decade of learning from this forum, I'm excited to make my first post.  I’m seeking feedback on my planned strategy to upgrade my Sonos System. This Thursday, I intend to transition from my legacy Sonos hardware, which operates on my 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi mesh network, to the latest models that will utilize my 5 GHz network and operate at 802.11n or better.  I am particularly interested in hearing your thoughts on the potential challenges of switching between these two sets of hardware and these two frequency bands.

Current Setup: My existing system includes three Play:5s (Gen 2), two Subs (Gen 2), a Play:3, a Play:1, a Connect (Gen 2), and an Era 300, all running without SonosNet.

New Setup: My upgraded system will have three Fives, two Subs (Gen 3), two Era 100s, a Port, and continue using the same Era 300.

Networking Gear: I use a Verizon-provided CR1000A router and an AiMesh network setup consisting of an Asus GT-BE98 Pro and three Pro ET12s. Each access point shares the same Wi-Fi channel per frequency. The 2.4 GHz band has one SSID, while the 5 and 6 GHz bands share another. I am confident in my 5 and 6 GHz setup and coverage.

Upgrade Plan:

  • Network Transition: I'll start by renaming, unplugging, and hiding all devices except the Era 300. Then, I'll update the network credentials to the 5 GHz network and remove the 2.4 GHz settings. The Era 300 will then be rebooted to ensure it connects properly.
  • Device Setup: I will gradually introduce the new devices, reassigning the old names to them and configuring static IPs for each via my router's DHCP server.
  • Device Reboot: After setting up all the new devices, I'll perform a system-wide reboot to ensure everything is properly synchronized.
  • Reset: Once I confirm the system is stable, I will perform a hardware reset on my old devices before giving them away. 

Concerns:

  • Sonos Not Found: Over the years, I've learned that Sonos devices can be VERY sensitive to network changes. If my Sonos app struggles to find the ERA 300, I plan to temporarily switch to a wired Ethernet connection to get it online. My final fallback is reconnecting one of my legacy devices to “retrieve” my Sonos System settings, factory reset my Era 300, and iterate to a solution.
  • Changing IP: What’s the best way to assign a new static IP to my devices? Should I reboot each device after I set its static IP so each will have its new IP address before adding the next device? Or should I wait until they are all added and reboot them all simultaneously?  What problems should I anticipate?
  • Can’t Connect to Older Hardware: Will Sonos allow me to change the system's network credentials without updating the network credentials of the legacy devices? Even if they are offline? Do I need to wait a few days, or is hiding them good enough?
  • What Else: Are there any other roadblocks I should prepare for?

I'm eager to learn from your experiences and any insights or recommendations on the order of operations for adding and configuring new devices, handling potential network issues, and the best practices for factory resetting the old devices.

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Best answer by AlexPermit 2 May 2024, 07:03

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AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Hi @AlexPermit 

Welcome to the Community! What took you so long 😂

I’m going to start this post by describing my network:

Xfinity/Comcast Modem/Router in Bridge Mode

  • Router side does not send Wi-Fi

Asus Ai Mesh

  • Three (3) Zen Wifi Pro ET12’s
  • 2.4Ghz, 5Ghz, 6Ghz
  • Same SSID and password for all bands
  • Ethernet (wired) Backhaul

The difference that I see between our AiMesh networks are:

  • One of your Asus routers is connected to the Verizon CR1000A router which is connected to a modem (either yours or Verizon’s)
  • Actually, the Verizon CR1000A (IMO) is an unneeded component as one of your Asus routers could be used as the main node connected to your modem
  • The other two (2) Asus routers would be used as satellite nodes to extend the AiMesh
  • In your setup one of the 6Ghz bands would be used to create the (wireless) backhaul; unless you decide to connect all via Ethernet.
  • Advantage of Ethernet backhaul allows each router in the Mesh to send the maximum Wi-Fi signal across all bands

Suggestion I:

  • You could name all bands with the same SSID and password
  • Allow Sonos to select the band 
  • The above works for me with no issues

My Sonos consists of:

  • Amp’s, Sub Gen 2’s and Port that work on Sonos S2/S1
  • Arc’s, Era 300’s, Era 100’s, Beam2, Move2’s and Sub Gen 3’s that require S2.
  • FYI, I have a total of 32 Sonos products on my network

Now, regarding your current Sonos gear:

  • You have NO legacy (S1) products per se
  • All are Sonos S2/S1 compatible with the exception of the Era 300 which requires S2
  • View S2/S1 Product compatibility here

Recommendations:

  • Power down all your Sonos; as you intended
  • Remove the Verizon CR1000A
  • Reset your Asus routers to factory settings
  • Connect the most advanced Asus router to your modem (wihich appears to be the Asus GT-BE98 Pro)
  • Set the SSID the same for each band
  • Power on the ET12’s 
  • Follow the Asus instructions under AiMesh to setup your network (Note: The ET12’s must be at factory default.)
  • After your network is up and running follow the instructions here to setup your existing Sonos
  • Add your new Sonos products as normal in settings under_”Add a Product”

Below is a guide I posted on how to assign reserve/static IP Addresses for Sonos products using an Asus router

 

Suggestion II: 

  • The Sonos app refresh will be launched on May 7th bringing new features that will make the Sonos app even more user friendly. So, you may want to wait until then before moving forward. It’s your decision 😊 
  • Preview it here (if you haven’t done so already).
Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
A
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

Thank you very much, AjTrek.  Your reply was quick and detailed.

I haven’t posted for ten years because for ten years I could find my answer by searching the forum 😁

Here are some clarifications on my network setup and the reasons for my upgrade:

  • Network Setup:

    • I use Fios TV One service through FIOS, which requires Verizon's NAT router to manage the public IP Address.
    • My current setup uses an Ethernet backhaul.
    • The 6 GHz band is reserved for my Wi-Fi 6E devices.
    • My GT-BE98 Pro is set to AiMesh Router/Access Point mode, and my three ET-12s function as AiMesh nodes, totaling effectively four access points.
    • While somewhat unconventional, I prefer to have split SSID’s between my 2.4 and 5 GHz networks.  In my setup, I have found some devices that I want on my 5 GHz band mistakenly choose the 2.4 GHz band, and visa versa.
    • I have no such problems with devices between 5 GHz and 6 GHz and use the same SSID for those bands.  In my most used locations (which mostly coincide with my Sonos Devices), my tablets and phones work seamlessly at 6E and transition seamlessly to 5 between these locations.

  • Reasons for Upgrading:

    • My home is a 3500 sq ft duplex condo apartment in a densely populated area, suffering from significant 2.4 GHz interference.
    • Although the system works on 2.4 GHz, it struggles with reliability issues, such as being unable to run all speakers simultaneously and experiencing music drops when streaming high-resolution tracks from Tidal on a speaker-sub pair.
    • Most devices being replaced support 5 GHz but only under the 802.11a standard, I prefer not to have anything less than 802.11n on my 5 GHz network.  I apologize for calling such devices “legacy”.
    • More and cleaner network bandwidth for my Sonos can’t hurt :-)

  • Question about IP Address Configuration:

    • Thank you for your link.  I noticed you used the current IP address as the static/reserved IP.  Have you ever tried assigning a different IP to each Sonos device. Do you have any experience with this, or tips on how to best implement it?  I routinely do this for all my static IP devices and would like to do so with my Sonos products as well.
  • New APP
    • I wasn’t aware that the Sonos App is going to have a refresh.  That’s very useful for me to know.  It’s actually motivating me to get my system up and stable before then!  I just don’t have the brain cells to deal with two Sonos changes at the same 😀

 

Thanks again for your help!

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@AlexPermit

Thanks for the follow up👍

OK…I now understand your reasoning much better. Outside of having the same SSID for all bands our networks appear to be simpatico 😊.

Regarding IP Address assignment for Sonos. When you enter the DHCP tab you’ll notice that all Sonos devices are listed as Sonos. That is very generic and one has no way to know if the device is a sub, Five, Era 30O etc. 

However you can see the serial number. If you open the Sonos app in your phone or tablet you can go to About My System and once there you can match the serial numbers for each device that you see in the DHCP tab. You will also see the current IP Address.

I decided to use the IP address that was already assigned to each device rather than change the last number to something different. The upside is that I didn’t have to concern myself as whelther or not the new IP Address was already being used. Besides it was much easier considering I have 32 Sonos products.

While making the IP Address assignments I also decided to change the identifier from just Sonos to Sonos Arc_LG or Sonos Five L_Stereo. The info after the underscore identified the Room. The letter “L” for the Five identified it as the Left speaker in a stereo pair.

To verify that each IP Address was assigned and stayed with the device… I would on occasion unplug a product for a few hours then later plug it in again to see if the assigned IP Address was retained. Each time the previous assigned IP Address was given back to the device.

I hope I answered your question. Feel free to post again. Besides…maybe you have some useful information to share. I’m always interested to learn more 🤔

Regarding the app refresh. Think_driving a sedan and moving to a Porsche. You already know how to drive…the Porsche is just more refined.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
A
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

@AjTrek1

Thank you,  It seems we have even more in common. Like you, I also set static leases in my existing system using the current IP addresses. I used mnemonics such as SONOS_LivR to keep things organized in my head. It was a while back but I remember using the System Matrix to map the MAC addresses to Sonos devices, mainly because I handled the assignments from my PC and it was easier to look up.  This approach, however, required the Sonos device to be already up and running. My concern is that once a Sonos device has its IP assigned, it or the app might not react well to having it changed.  My Sonos devices can be quite finicky.

You’ve given me a great idea. Since the MAC address is the same as the serial number, which is printed on each Sonos device, I could set up static leases for my new devices before I first power them up.  This way, the device will be configured correctly  “out of the box” 😀

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@AjTrek1

You’ve given me a great idea. Since the MAC address is the same as the serial number, which is printed on each Sonos device, I could set up static leases for my new devices before I first power them up.  This way, the device will be configured correctly  “out of the box” 😀

Hmm…let me know how your idea works. I’d be concerned that the router seeing the device for the first time might still try to assign an IP Address thinking the MAC address may have been spoofed. But great idea if all goes well. That will save me time as well if I replace any of my 32 Sonos products 😂

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Depending on your router you may have options for setting IP addresses, inside or outside the DHCP pool, sometimes both are possible.

I prefer to assign my static/reserved addresses outside my DHCP pool and group like devices in sequential IP order, it isn’t likely required but it does look neater on the screen.

It also makes it easy to scan the DHCP logs and identify any unknown client device, almost always some new toy the grand kids brought along and not an intruder.

A
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

 @Stanley_4 

Thank you for the observation. 

From my previous experiments, the CR1000A GUI will allow the static binding of a Mac address to an IP address even when the IP is outside its DHCP range. However, the router will not assign the device this address if it is outside its DHCP range. Specifically, it will not respond with a DHCPOFFER when receiving a DHCPDISCOVER message from such a client.

Perhaps I did something wrong, or my memory is faulty.  But it does make some sense to me. Strictly speaking, a static IP is set on the device, while a static DHCP lease is set on the DHCP server. The CR1000A’s apparent behavior is consistent with this distinction. From what I can see, Sonos devices do not support setting a static IP, meaning you can’t set the IP address on the device. However, they do support receiving a static DHCP lease from the DHCP server. 

In my current network setup, I don’t set static IP’s.  I set static DHCP leases (sometimes called static reservations).  Left on its own, my router tends to set relatively high IP addresses, e.g., 192.168.1.100 or higher.  I set my DHCP reservations to relatively low addresses, e.g., 192.168.1.50 or lower.  It may just be luck, but I’ve been lucky so far.

I like to group IPs by their “type”.  Network infrastructure (access points, switches, etc) get an address between 2 and 10.  Computers, NAS, and other devices I use as servers get between 10 and 19.  Computer peripherals like my Elgato lights are between 20 and 29.  I’d like to reserve 30-49 for my Sonos devices.

Like you, I also look through DHCP logs for errant devices.  Luckily for me the only errant devices are devices I forgot I had 😂 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Yes, Sonos only uses DHCP to set IPv4 addresses, haven’t looked to see what they use for the IPv6 ones.

I try to remember to type “static/reserved” when talking about DHCP server configuration, hoping to lessen any confusion with device set / non-DHCP assigned addresses.

I don’t know that router, my pfSense is happy to set up reservations but only outside the DHCP pool(s):

https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/services/dhcp/ipv4.html

This IP address is a preference, not a reservation. Assigning an IP address here will not prevent another host from using the same IP address. If the IP address is in use when this client requests a lease, the server will instead assign the client an address from the general pool. For this reason, the GUI does not allow assigning static IP mappings inside of the DHCP pool.

 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

A shot of my DHCP server config screen

 

A
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

 @Stanley_4 

Thank you.

That’s consistent with how I remember pFSense working. I used to run pFSense on a Netgate FW-7541 (a step up from my PePlink balance 310, which I used before that).

 

I had to “unlearn” some things when I “went back” to an ISP router 😁

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

Took one look at my Quantum Fiber router and grabbed the manual so I could flip it to transparent bridging. I’d hate to have to live with a low function router.

I’m starting to look at moving from the SG-3100 I have now to something newer, too many projects are dropping 32 bit Arm support. Maybe a 64 bit Arm or a bit more expensive Intel based box

A
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

I ran the G1100 in bridge mode for a few years. Setting it up is pretty straightforward.  I’m sure there are still guides online for how to do it.

You lose some functionality, such as Remote DVR programming.  My biggest issue was having to reset the router as primary whenever I needed any sort of tech support from Verizon. If memory serves me correctly, I think I had to release the public IP everytime I swapped devices.  I remember cloning MAC addresses to address that.  My connection to the ONT was through ethernet.  If your connection is through Coax the steps may be different.

One day, my Netgate died, and I swapped in my “spare” G1100 router.  It was supposed to be a temprary fix, but I got lazy and used that setup until I upgraded to Fios TV One.  When I did, I  lost the option to use my own router.

A
Userlevel 2
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 Transition Complete!

Crutchfield delivered earlier than I expected, so I completed today.  It was a seamless transition.  I can't believe everything worked.  I renamed, unplugged, and hid all devices except the Era 300. Then, I updated the network credentials to the 5 GHz network and removed the 2.4 GHz settings. I proceeded to change the DHCP reservation for the ERA 300, and rebooted it. I then set up static leases for my new devices before powering them up and added them to my network.

For posterity, I'll note the following:

  • I needed to split the pairing between the left and right speakers and their subs before disconnecting and hiding.  Without doing that, I could not hide "missing" devices.
  • Sonos took a while when I changed network credentials on the ERA 300 and complained that I didn't alter network credentials on the devices I disconnected and hid.  I just ignored the message.

I am now streaming Tidal High Def on all my speakers, and it is rock solid.

I have never had such a pleasant experience making such a significant change to my Sonos system.  I suspect my substandard 2.4 GHZ network caused all my previous headaches.

Thanks @AjTrek1 and @Stanley_4  for giving me the comfort and confidence I needed

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