UPDATE: I have just realized there is an “advanced setup” section of the forums. But I don’t know how to move my existing question. If a moderator can move it, please do! I’ve had a Sonos system for a while (all Play3s) always with one wired to my home network. Times have changed, my home network has grown more complex and now I’m in the situation where I have several APs all using the same SSID but on different channels. This is a common practice to increase coverage, but the end result is on 2.4Ghz, the APs are already broadcasting on either 1,6, or 11. Letting Sonos use SonosNet, just ends up causing interference both to my wifi network and to Sonos. I use my wifi network for a lot more things, so I’m not very tolerant of interference from Sonos here. I’m comfortable with the reliability of the wifi network, so I decided to try moving Sonos to my wifi network. A few things surprised me, so I thought I would ask here: I’ve got at least one spot it would be easy to use a wired connection with a Sonos player, but it looks like if any Sonos devices are wired, then the whole system uses SonosNet? It seems like it would be better to let all devices be on wifi or wired, as long as they are all reachable on the same subnet. When switching to wireless, I put in the SSID from my Sonos mobile app. I assumed each device would join the AP nearest to it, but it looks like all Sonos device want to join the same wifi channel, which puts a couple of them pretty far from their AP. I verified this by checking: http://X.X.X.X:1400/status/proc/ath_rincon/status for each of the devices. In my case this is channel 6. Two of them are sitting very near APs using channels 1, and 11, but they’re staying fixated on the farthest AP, which uses ch6. Is this right? What I’m looking for is some advice for Sonos co-existing nicely with a multi-AP network that already uses Ch1, 6, 11.

Contributor III

Answered

Using Sonos on home wifi same SSID, different channels

16 replies
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UPDATE: I have just realized there is an “advanced setup” section of the forums. But I don’t know how to move my existing question. If a moderator can move it, please do!

I’ve had a Sonos system for a while (all Play3s) always with one wired to my home network. Times have changed, my home network has grown more complex and now I’m in the situation where I have several APs all using the same SSID but on different channels. This is a common practice to increase coverage, but the end result is on 2.4Ghz, the APs are already broadcasting on either 1,6, or 11. Letting Sonos use SonosNet, just ends up causing interference both to my wifi network and to Sonos. I use my wifi network for a lot more things, so I’m not very tolerant of interference from Sonos here.

I’m comfortable with the reliability of the wifi network, so I decided to try moving Sonos to my wifi network. A few things surprised me, so I thought I would ask here:

I’ve got at least one spot it would be easy to use a wired connection with a Sonos player, but it looks like if any Sonos devices are wired, then the whole system uses SonosNet? It seems like it would be better to let all devices be on wifi or wired, as long as they are all reachable on the same subnet.
When switching to wireless, I put in the SSID from my Sonos mobile app. I assumed each device would join the AP nearest to it, but it looks like all Sonos device want to join the same wifi channel, which puts a couple of them pretty far from their AP. I verified this by checking: http://X.X.X.X:1400/status/proc/ath_rincon/status for each of the devices. In my case this is channel 6. Two of them are sitting very near APs using channels 1, and 11, but they’re staying fixated on the farthest AP, which uses ch6. Is this right?

What I’m looking for is some advice for Sonos co-existing nicely with a multi-AP network that already uses Ch1, 6, 11.

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John BAnswer

I believe Sonos uses direct routing between devices where it is preferable to following the paths determined by STP. And I think that requires them to be on the same channel.

That's the design. Pros and cons I guess.

I believe Sonos states that the system is not compatible with enterprise deployments. It is certainly the case that this is not a common deployment in Sonos' target market.

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John B

Hi. SonosNet is part of the original Sonos design and is still the best way to run Sonos in most situations. If one device is wired then the whole system shifts to the SonosNet mesh. Mixing SonosNet and WiFi is generally less stable.

Why use all three channels for your WiFi?

Yes Sonos prefers being on the same channel. Which is why it is better off the Wifi.

J

John B

Btw none of us notices which section of the forum a question appears under

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kbyrdAuthor

Contributor III

Hi. SonosNet is part of the original Sonos design and is still the best way to run Sonos in most situations.

Thanks for the reply! I’m in a situation where I believe it is doing more harm than good.

Why use all three channels for your WiFi?

This is a pretty common strategy to get good wifi coverage with multiple wifi APs. Many enterprise deployments use it. It is showing up more in more in the Prosumer/Home Mesh wifi products too.

Rather than a single AP blasting as much power as you can, you place multiple APs in various locations, the coverage for these APs overlaps but if you use the same SSID but non-overlapping channels, most wifi clients will naturally roam from one AP to the next as they are moved around. If you have more than 3 APs, you swap the use of channels in such a way to keep the same channels as far away from each other as possible.

Right now I have three APs, each on their own 2.4 (and also 5Ghz) channel, so great coverage, no interference. With SonosNet active, I have a single channel taken over by SonosNet, spread out thru my house, which cuts against the “avoid interference” design. I knew this would be a problem, so I decide I which switch my old Play3s to wifi, that SonosNet and wifi are not interfering, it’s up to the wifi system to be reliable enough for Sonos. I’m ok with that tradeoff.

But, then I was surprised that all Sonos gear wants to be on the same wifi channel. This makes no sense in a modern wifi client and is completely counter to most wifi clients operate these days. Some old (broken) wifi clients used to be locked to a channel, but that’s broken behavior. The client should join the “best” AP that has the configured SSID. Best is decided by the client. But most of them choose the best RSSI for their band.

I know I’m stuck with the capabilities of the physical hardware, but I bet the choice of wifi channel is in the Sonos firmware, not the radio itself. It’s clearly capable of being changed by the mobile app, so each Sonos device should be capable of being on different channels.

J

John BAnswer

I believe Sonos uses direct routing between devices where it is preferable to following the paths determined by STP. And I think that requires them to be on the same channel.

That's the design. Pros and cons I guess.

I believe Sonos states that the system is not compatible with enterprise deployments. It is certainly the case that this is not a common deployment in Sonos' target market.

ratty

Sonos also tries to use direct routing between grouped peers in WiFi mode, for which the nodes would need to share a channel. If the nodes are connected to different APs, on different channels, direct routing can’t happen and group performance can suffer. Note that a stereo pair with/without a Sub is a special type of group.

K

kbyrdAuthor

Contributor III

Sonos also tries to use direct routing between grouped peers in WiFi mode, for which the nodes would need to share a channel.

Is this “direct routing” at the wifi level or is it a normal layer 2 thing, like broadcast or multicasting on the same subnet? Does having wifi station isolation turned on break this?

It’s looking like my wifi setup has outgrown the environment Sonos was built for. Unfortunately I value the wifi setup more than I do Sonos these days, it’s been a good 8-9 year run, but habits have changed.

jgatie

Sonos also tries to use direct routing between grouped peers in WiFi mode, for which the nodes would need to share a channel.

Is this “direct routing” at the wifi level or is it a normal layer 2 thing, like broadcast or multicasting on the same subnet? Does having wifi station isolation turned on break this?

It’s looking like my wifi setup has outgrown the environment Sonos was built for. Unfortunately I value the wifi setup more than I do Sonos these days, it’s been a good 8-9 year run, but habits have changed.

Or you could buy a Boost, wire it in and carry on just as before (only with better range/coverage).

K

kbyrdAuthor

Contributor III

I didn’t know about the Boost until right now (I stopped following Sonos gear a couple of years ago), and reading about know I don’t see how it helps. AFAICT, Boost creates a new dedicated wireless network for Sonos devices. That’s exactly the problem I’m trying to avoid. I have taken care to create a good wifi network using several of APs and channel choices, there isn’t really room for another Sonos-dedicated network. What I was hoping to do was put Sonos on my existing wifi network and live with any Sonos performance problems if they showed up.

I just checked my wifi clients and it looks like one of the Play3s chose the AP right next to it which is a different channel than the others. That’s exactly what I wanted, so it appears this is possible! I’ll see how it goes.

Smilja

A multiroom system is slightly more demanding than a cell phone that neither can be grouped nor play in sync with other cell phones. Wire all Play:3s to the router and disable the WiFi module on each unit.

How to disable or enable WiFi on your Sonos players

Or sell them on ebay and buy yourself a traditional HiFi system.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)

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John B

It’s looking like my wifi setup has outgrown the environment Sonos was built for. Unfortunately I value the wifi setup more than I do Sonos these days, it’s been a good 8-9 year run, but habits have changed.

You are entitled to your purist view of your home network. I suspect that you could have a perfectly functioning home WiFi and Sonos set up without using all three 2.4GHz channels on WiFi, but you know your system and your aims. Fortunately, for 99.9999% of Sonos users, this sort of setup is unnecessary, and your concerns irrelevant.

So good luck with however you decide to provide your whole home audio in future.

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