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Sonos Matrix Bunches of Red


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I have 30 Sonos components hooked up in this house. Two Playbars, Five Subs, One new Amp, Two Play 3, the rest mainly Sono Ones G1 with one Sono One G2, and a handful of Play 1s. Two boosts.

 

Main problem is when I switch from Pandora to Apple Music. The devices cut in and out for one to two minutes. Also I’ve noticed that on my downstairs Playbar surround sound when playing music it gets a half second lag after a few songs. This is the only room that has ever played out of sync. Only way to correct is by powering off the room and then bringing it back into the fold.

 

I looked at my Sonos Matrix and so much of it is RED RED RED.

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Best answer by Ken_Griffiths 10 March 2020, 09:30

'Red’ is obviously WiFi interference that's either surrounding the device, or between connections.

Some things you can perhaps consider are...

  • Run your system on Sonosnet with one device wired to the main router.
  • Set the routers fixed 2.4 GHz non-overlapping WiFi channel to at least 5 channels away from the Sonosnet channel, ensuring both are least-used by neighbours.
  • Keep wireless devices at least 3 feet away from each other and objects that might interfere with signals.
  • Set all WiFi access points, hubs, extenders etc; to use the same SSID, credentials and channels as the main router.
  • Consider wiring Sonos devices to the local network where interference remains high after  exhausting all other options.
  • Add all Sonos IP addresses to the main routers DHCP Reservation Table.
  • Ensure that the 2.4ghz WiFi credentials are not stored in the Sonos App network settings and if using the Sonos Move speaker consider using that connected to the 5ghz band.
  • Place other wireless network devices around the home onto the 5ghz band where it's practicable to do so.
  • Review the network WiFi channels in use from time to time in case neighbours alter their WiFi settings, which may then introduce interference.
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'Red’ is obviously WiFi interference that's either surrounding the device, or between connections.

Some things you can perhaps consider are...

  • Run your system on Sonosnet with one device wired to the main router.
  • Set the routers fixed 2.4 GHz non-overlapping WiFi channel to at least 5 channels away from the Sonosnet channel, ensuring both are least-used by neighbours.
  • Keep wireless devices at least 3 feet away from each other and objects that might interfere with signals.
  • Set all WiFi access points, hubs, extenders etc; to use the same SSID, credentials and channels as the main router.
  • Consider wiring Sonos devices to the local network where interference remains high after  exhausting all other options.
  • Add all Sonos IP addresses to the main routers DHCP Reservation Table.
  • Ensure that the 2.4ghz WiFi credentials are not stored in the Sonos App network settings and if using the Sonos Move speaker consider using that connected to the 5ghz band.
  • Place other wireless network devices around the home onto the 5ghz band where it's practicable to do so.
  • Review the network WiFi channels in use from time to time in case neighbours alter their WiFi settings, which may then introduce interference.
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  • Run your system on Sonosnet with one device wired to the main router.

I am running Sonosnet, Boost hooked to Router. Even tried Black Amp hooked to same router. No change.

 

 

  • Set the routers fixed 2.4 GHz non-overlapping WiFi channel to at least 5 channels away from the Sonosnet channel, ensuring both are least-used by neighbours.
  • I have a Eeros Pro mesh network. Eeros separates the bands extremely well. Neighbors are over 200 meters away. That is just property lines, so much further device to device.
  • Keep wireless devices at least 3 feet away from each other and objects that might interfere with signals.
  • Will try that, much easier said than done with so many Sonos and other devices
  • Set all WiFi access points, hubs, extenders etc; to use the same SSID, credentials and channels as the main router.
  • Set by Eeros
  • Consider wiring Sonos devices to the local network where interference remains high after  exhausting all other options.
  • Tall order, will do for troubleshooting purposes. Sort of defeats purpose of Sonos wireless and SonosNet. :(
  • Add all Sonos IP addresses to the main routers DHCP Reservation Table.
  • Can do, will take some time, not sure why this would make a difference when using SonosNet
  • Ensure that the 2.4ghz WiFi credentials are not stored in the Sonos App network settings and if using the Sonos Move speaker consider using that connected to the 5ghz band.
  • No Sonos Move
  • Place other wireless network devices around the home onto the 5ghz band where it's practicable to do so.
  • ​​​​​​​Eeros and devices generally will do this automatically
  • Review the network WiFi channels in use from time to time in case neighbours alter their WiFi settings, which may then introduce interference.

 

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What happens if you switch to another WiFi channel, 1, 6 or 11 and check the Matrix again?

You could submit a diagnostic and contact Sonos Support with the number it gives you to get them to look under the hood. We users can’t see that data.

The static/reserved IP tweak solves a lot of problems at reboot and update time so it is well worth doing. The larger the system the more likely it will avoid a future issue. It should only take a few minutes in your router’s DHCP settings, take an extra moment and give each Sonos a meaningful DNS name while you are there.

 

Pick a slow day and start unplugging stuff, not just stuff that has a radio in it, and see if you find one or more devices causing much of your unwanted RED color.

Things like WiFi cameras, baby monitors and such are prime suspects so maybe start with them.

Suspect everything! My offending device has no radio so I ignored it and wasted hours poking at devices that were not a problem. The device was a Western Digital Ethernet connected external hard disk. No radio, just crap, noisy electronics. 

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What happens if you switch to another WiFi channel, 1, 6 or 11 and check the Matrix again?

Wifi channel on routers and access points? I believe the Eeros do that automatically.

You could submit a diagnostic and contact Sonos Support with the number it gives you to get them to look under the hood. We users can’t see that data.

I have seen other folks do that. Will be most happy to.

The static/reserved IP tweak solves a lot of problems at reboot and update time so it is well worth doing. The larger the system the more likely it will avoid a future issue. It should only take a few minutes in your router’s DHCP settings, take an extra moment and give each Sonos a meaningful DNS name while you are there.

:thumbsup:

Pick a slow day and start unplugging stuff, not just stuff that has a radio in it, and see if you find one or more devices causing much of your unwanted RED color.

I’m sure my situation is something like that. Some of the devices in red are not near anything that I think would cause interference.

Things like WiFi cameras, baby monitors and such are prime suspects so maybe start with them.

Suspect everything! My offending device has no radio so I ignored it and wasted hours poking at devices that were not a problem. The device was a Western Digital Ethernet connected external hard disk. No radio, just crap, noisy electronics. 

 

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Routers auto switching WiFi channels does not mix well with Sonos that uses a fixed channel.

Switching the Sonos channel will allow you to see if the red is coming from a device on a single channel or is broadband in nature. Knowing that you can likely narrow your search for problem devices a bit.

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Matrix Part One

Initially when I posted this, I might have not understood how to read the matrix. I’m still pretty clueless, lol. What had me alarmed at first was all the red along column one. Looking at the actual rows and columns in the matrix every thing is a mix of mainly GREEN, some YELLOW and sometimes one or two ORANGE. Am I safe to assume that even though the column header shows mainly RED, some Orange and a few GREENS, that I am getting good signal between the two devices that converge in the matrix.

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Had to spit up in to screenshots

 

Matrix Part Two

 

Am I safe to assume that even though the column header shows mainly RED, some Orange and a few GREENS, that I am getting good signal between the two devices that converge in the matrix.

Signal strengths are okay/good. Everywhere is being slammed with interference though. It’s sufficiently widespread that something very noisy must be active. It’s likely to be a non-WiFi actor in the 2.4GHz band. Proprietary wireless or high strength Bluetooth perhaps.

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Did you try using the three clear channels 1, 6 and 11 to see if they made any difference to the red cells?

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Did you try using the three clear channels 1, 6 and 11 to see if they made any difference to the red cells?

Thank you for your reply, I did and seem to make minimal difference.

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Am I safe to assume that even though the column header shows mainly RED, some Orange and a few GREENS, that I am getting good signal between the two devices that converge in the matrix.

Signal strengths are okay/good. Everywhere is being slammed with interference though. It’s sufficiently widespread that something very noisy must be active. It’s likely to be a non-WiFi actor in the 2.4GHz band. Proprietary wireless or high strength Bluetooth perhaps.

Only thing I can think of is some of our Direct TV boxes are “wireless” I do know that we have a special DTV router that sends the signal to them. I’m pretty surprised at the coverage that it provides.

Short_Market_Paul,

Noise floors in the -1xx range are very good. I personally have never seen any lower than -116,  Your “Den Play 3” is lower than any that I’ve seen. It is unlikely that you’ll see any noise floors higher than about -70, because SonosNet falls apart at these high levels.

ODFM ANI level is an indication of how hard the unit is working to overcome interference. ‘9’ is maximum effort. I live a difficult area and will see ‘9’ at times on some units, but the system usually works fine. Your matrix is worse than anything that I’ve seen at my location. Next door to me is a medical facility. I assume that they have something in that building that is a bad neighbor. I’m also suspecting that there is something traveling on the power line that runs by the house. My interference varies from minute to minute. Note that the matrix is a static snapshot. You must reload the page to view the results after a change. Be sure to track this issue at different times of day because this might give you a hint about locating the interfering device.

Make sure that your 2.4GHz WiFi channels are 20MHz wide. Wider channels will increase interference.

If you can wire more SONOS units to your network, this will help.

In System Settings what is the Audio Compression setting? While I don’t expect this will be an issue, fuss with this setting as an experiment.

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Yes, I do refresh the webpage before each test of the matrix. I’m sure the interference is cause by something in my household. Not sure what, the speakers with interference span the entire home. I see that almost ALL my speakers are working very hard to overcome the interference. Interesting how the backyard beam and it’s associated sub/surronds have no interference.

 

I don’t have any line-in devices so Audio Compression was set to auto, I did not notice a difference with switching it to on/off/auto.

Interesting how the backyard beam and it’s associated sub/surronds have no interference.

Beam contains the latest radio module, which doesn’t offer ambient noise data in a form compatible with the matrix. (The same is true of models released since Beam debuted, such as One/gen2.)

Sub and surrounds are on 5GHz, hence unaffected by 2.4GHz interference.

 

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I sure am learning quite a bit from you all. I appreciate ALL your responses. So safe to say, Beams, New Amps, One SL and One 2nd Gen are not going to be of any help with this ambient noise matrix data. Subs and surrounds are only going to be as weak as whatever speakers or soundbars they are connected to.

Subs and surrounds are only going to be as weak as whatever speakers or soundbars they are connected to.

It depends what you mean by “weak”. Their 5GHz connection to the main home theatre speaker should be strong and unaffected by any 2.4GHz interference. The ensemble as a whole will perform -- or not -- depending on the main speaker’s network connection. TV audio of course arrives at the main HT player directly.

Baby monitors and microwave ovens are suspects in this sort of drama as are wireless security cameras. I can also imagine that some security systems might cause issues. There was a generation of PANASONIC cordless phones that were bad neighbors. DECT cordless phones are not usually an issue.

Another possibility is a device that has gone rogue and is emitting spurious radiation. These will be harder to find because you’ll need to selectively power down potential suspects, then check the matrix. Rogue Bluetooth devices are candidates for this, but their power levels are usually relatively low and they are not likely to uniformly blanket the house.

It is a very interesting hint that the interference source is inside the house, due to the low interference levels observed outdoors.

You could use a ONE S1 as a probe because they are easy to move around. Move the unit to various locations in an attempt to develop a gradient. 

Here’s a wild idea (I have an active imagination): Try to create a very directional ONE by placing it inside a metal pail. The ONE will be limited to receiving radiation mostly from the open end of the pail. Rotate the “antenna” and attempt to determine a “vector” for the interference. If this works, then you can triangulate from several locations to locate the source. While in college I noticed a rogue broadcast station. A roommate and I drove around town with a dipole antenna (they are somewhat directional) and developed a few vectors vaguely triangulating to a potential area. We then used raw signal strength to zero in on the exact location.

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