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Sonos AMP Trueplay?

Mike231
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  • Mike231
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Do we know yet whether the new Sonos AMP supports Trueplay?
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Best answer by Ryan S 8 November 2018, 18:44

The Sonos Amp will support Trueplay in some specific configurations and with specific speakers.

It's buried in a few pages in this thread.

Reposting the specifics here,

Ryan S wrote:

Trueplay can currently be used with Amp in two setups:
1. When it is operating as the surrounds for a Beam, Playbar, or Playbase.
2. When the Amp is configured on its own with the Sonance speakers we're working with them to produce.

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Ryan S
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The Sonos Amp will support Trueplay in some specific configurations and with specific speakers.

It's buried in a few pages in this thread.

Reposting the specifics here,

Ryan S wrote:

Trueplay can currently be used with Amp in two setups:
1. When it is operating as the surrounds for a Beam, Playbar, or Playbase.
2. When the Amp is configured on its own with the Sonance speakers we're working with them to produce.

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Mike231
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Thanks Ryan, that's clear. Do we know whether Sonance will be producing any freestanding speakers imminently or will they be 'in wall' / 'in ceiling' type? Failing that, Is there any chance any time soon that Connect will be upgraded to support Trueplay on 3rd party (non-Sonance, non-Sonos) speakers?
Ryan S
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We're working with Sonance to make outdoor, ceiling, and in-wall speakers, no bookshelf type or free standing speakers have been announced at this time, but I'll pass the note along at you're interested in that.

Trueplay requires a lot of information about the sonic footprint of the speaker that's being tuned. That's why the Amp is only really able to handle things when we know what the speaker connected sounds like. Because of this, the Connect can't do any tuning for third party speakers. I'll also pass along a suggestion for this, but I don't have any details or rumors to let you in on if this would be possible in the future.
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Mike231
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That's clear, thanks. One final question if I may. Can Sonos AMP connect to Play 3s (or anything else) wirelessly with the same low latency (c 30ms) that Playbar has when bonded to Play 3's as surrounds? i.e. could Sonos AMP drive a pair of Play 3's as FL and FR with 30ms (rather than the usual c 83ms) latency? Or is the idea that Sonos AMP is for wired speakers only?
nsfbr
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I'd like to ask why the Amp + Trueplay is limited to some yet to be developed speakers? There would not seem to be a technical reason for this since the filter would reside in the Amp, not the speaker. Would Sonos reconsider this approach, which appears counter to the entire idea of Amp as a means to incorporate speakers of one's choosing into the Sonos ecosystem?

Just to be clear, my Amp arrives in Tuesday. Purchased to power a pair of high quality speakers in a room that does not have any other source. I have 6 Ones, a Play 3 and a Playbase sprinkled throughout other parts of my home, so I have already made a sizeable investment here.
jgatie
nsfbr wrote:

I'd like to ask why the Amp + Trueplay is limited to some yet to be developed speakers?



I suggest you read 2 posts back, the one authored by Sonos Community Manager Ryan S.
Ryan S
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Mike231 wrote:

That's clear, thanks. One final question if I may. Can Sonos AMP connect to Play 3s (or anything else) wirelessly with the same low latency (c 30ms) that Playbar has when bonded to Play 3's as surrounds? i.e. could Sonos AMP drive a pair of Play 3's as FL and FR with 30ms (rather than the usual c 83ms) latency? Or is the idea that Sonos AMP is for wired speakers only?


I missed this question, sorry for the delay. The answer is yes. The Amp can have surrounds bonded with it just like you can do with a Playbar or Playbase already (using a pair of Play:1, Sonos One, Play:3, Play:5 gen 2, or another Amp). It'll have the same minimal/unnoticeable difference in playback.

jgatie wrote:

nsfbr wrote:

I'd like to ask why the Amp + Trueplay is limited to some yet to be developed speakers?



I suggest you read 2 posts back, the one authored by Sonos Community Manager Ryan S.


As jgatie suggested, I tried to answer that same question up above. To do the tuning, we need to know about the speakers beyond what we simply listen to during the testing.

If you were using the Amp as surrounds for a Playbar or other home theater device, Trueplay tuning is available, no matter what speakers you're using, but the adjustments it can make are more limited, it's more about how loud to play each channel and a few minor tweaks.
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nsfbr
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jgatie wrote:

nsfbr wrote:

I'd like to ask why the Amp + Trueplay is limited to some yet to be developed speakers?



I suggest you read 2 posts back, the one authored by Sonos Community Manager Ryan S.



I highly doubt that is factual. There may be some speakers that could not be tuned this way, but deriving a transfer function based on the output should not require this. It may be how they currently do it, but it should not be required. That is, they may need to take longer, use different tones, etc., in order to do it, perhaps even make it a two step process (step one is a set of near field measurements), but I would be surprised that it can not be done.

Sorry, I didn't see Ryan's response. Not meaning to be contrarian at all - but I would bet you guys can figure this out. Again, it might not be as consumer friendly as the normal trueplay tuning, but Amp is for audiophiles and installers.
jgatie
nsfbr wrote:



I highly doubt that is factual. There may be some speakers that could not be tuned this way, but deriving a transfer function based on the output should not require this. It may be how they currently do it, but it should not be required. That is, they may need to take longer, use different tones, etc., in order to do it, perhaps even make it a two step process (step one is a set of near field measurements), but I would be surprised that it can not be done.



Everyone believes what they want to believe. If it helps you to feel better, or justify some type of animus you have, feel free. Myself, I tend not to fret over functionality that was neither advertised, nor promised.
nsfbr
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jgatie wrote:

nsfbr wrote:



I highly doubt that is factual. There may be some speakers that could not be tuned this way, but deriving a transfer function based on the output should not require this. It may be how they currently do it, but it should not be required. That is, they may need to take longer, use different tones, etc., in order to do it, perhaps even make it a two step process (step one is a set of near field measurements), but I would be surprised that it can not be done.



Everyone believes what they want to believe. If it helps you to feel better, or justify some type of animus you have, feel free. Myself, I tend not to fret over functionality that was neither advertised, nor promised.



So confused why you think I have any animus. :? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to find someone who actually knows the answer to a technical question. If this is run as a Sonos fanboy board, I'm actually glad that I found out sooner rather than later.

In the off chance it is possible to get a real technical person associated with the company to respond, I would value the opportunity to understand whether Sonos would consider implementing this improvement to its newest, and potentially most significant product. I'm an engineer who has some significant experience in signal processing and acoustics engineering (although my field is spacecraft electrical systems.) I'd be happy to help or beta test any such development. Thanks.
jgatie
Ryan S from Sonos answered your question. You don't believe him, so now you want a "real" technical person? How condescending can you be?
nsfbr
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jgatie wrote:

Ryan S from Sonos answered your question. You don't believe him, so now you want a "real" technical person? How condescending can you be?



Do you get badges or something for pointless responses? Just trying to learn the norms of the community. Thanks again for all the help!
jgatie
nsfbr wrote:



Do you get badges or something for pointless responses? Just trying to learn the norms of the community. Thanks again for all the help!



Pointless? I thought my point was quite clear . . . I considered your response to be condescending. Guess I need to work on my bluntness.
melvimbe
Userlevel 7
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I would guess that Ryan knows plenty about the tech aspects of Trueplay that he is not at liberating to share on this public forum, and with customers in general. Trueplay is surely patented. @nsfbr, your best option is probably to contact one of the support staff through PM to ask if they can give you a more technical answer to your question, but I would not be surprised at all if they are not allowed to give you any more details, even under an NDA.
Danny
nsfbr
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Thanks melvimbe, I think you are probably right about being able to discuss things. I do hope they consider implementing the technology, or a modified version of it, to Amp and existing speakers. I understand about the profitability of restricting things to selected speakers, but they'd sell a heck of a lot more Amps if Trueplay, let's call it "style" capability were added to it.
russelk
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I thought Trueplay was Sonos' version of room correction. AV receivers are able to implement sophisticated room correction using ANY brand of speaker. I find it disappointing that Sonos' latest amp is unable to do something that AV receivers have been doing for so long. I think they definitely missed a trick here.
jgatie
Trueplay is not the same as A/V receiver room tuning. Room tuning of A/V receivers sets the volume level and delay of the speakers and sub. There is no equalization going on, so it does not need to evaluate the acoustical properties of the speakers, only volume and distance.

Trueplay, on the other hand, does adjust equalization and DSP values, and without knowing the characteristics of the speakers, it is unable to make the proper adjustments.
russelk
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It looks like your knowledge of A/V receivers is out of date. That used to be the case many years ago. Modern A/V receiver tuning does include equalization, and it does evaluate the acoustical properties of the speaker and room from the measurement and analysis of test tones.
russelk
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Here's a brief intro to Audyssey, which has been running on Denon and Marantz receivers for quite a while now:

https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/32/~/audyssey-multeq-xt

Similarly, Yamaha and Pioneer have their own systems that include EQ.

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