External DAC with Connect

Agreed, but I've always been more of a Dead Head than a Belafonte fan 🙂

I was ending my clarification of my point, ... . I think I am well within my rights to do that.


OK, sorry for the misunderstanding about that. I was perhaps a bit abrupt.

Good question - I look forward to reading answers!


I think this is answered by my post #253 in response to Magik's question which crossed with your post.

What is the truth, the philosopher would ask?
Every scientific fact is nothing but a hypothesis that is yet to be proved wrong, to be then substituted by a better one. The all swans are white hypothesis/fact is easy to be proved wrong by finding just the one black swan - but where is that in this case of amplifiers/DBTs?
Surely if you are going to make such postulations, they remain just speculations until you find the black swan? While the white swan hypothesis has been constructed by many people that have done these tests over the years and are satisfied to its quality. Anyone that doesn't agree has the burden of finding the black swan to destroy it.
Over at Harbeth UK, Alan Shaw for some time now has offered a free pair of his flagship speakers to anyone that can turn up one in controlled conditions, with any two amp of the claimants choice that are in working condition and meet a frequency response/distortion criteria that almost all modern ones do. No downsides, no entry fee, except for travel costs. And yet he has seen no takers, not even from people living in the UK where travel costs/time may not be the investment it would be for people elsewhere. Where are the black swans hiding?

Well, unless we know how many times Mr Shaw's test has been attempted the simple fact that the test exists gives us no information about the presence or otherwise of black swans. If you were to tell me that it had been attempted (say) 100 times with no success, then it might start to be interesting and have a bearing on my belief about the particular hypothesis it tests.

If no-one has taken the test, you can't assume that it's because no-one is confident of a positive result.

My feeling is that the reward for success is actually very low - and by that I mean no disrespect at all to Mr Shaw or Harbeth's range of speakers - compared with the effort required to meet the entry criteria. As I understand it, Mr Shaw's criteria are not simply that you turn up with two amplifiers and plug them into a test set-up that he/Harbeth provides. Rather you have to provide the whole test set-up yourself, except (I think) for the speakers.

For a commercial organisation to do this, I think it's reasonable to say that the value of winning a pair of some other manufacturer's speakers has essentially zero value. You might argue that there would be a publicity coup in winning, but again with due respect to Harbeth and their user community, I doubt that this challenge has a sufficiently high profile or marketing value to warrant the effort required to enter.

The number of individuals who have the expertise and wherewithal to provide two qualifying amplifiers and the associated test set-up is probably quite limited. The number of those individuals that want a pair of Harbeth M40.1s will be much smaller. Then from that small number, how many have the motivation to choose Mr Shaw's challenge rather than simply buying a pair of his speakers?

So my (slightly tongue in cheek) answer to your question "where are the black swans hiding?" is "in plain sight", because no-one's really bothering to make a point of looking for them in a disciplined way. And that may be because it doesn't particularly benefit anyone to settle the question of whether or not they exist.

Worst. Thread. Ever.

The same holds true for music.
Another good point. If you attend enough live performances where you are sitting close enough to hear the instruments directly, the difference in quality between that experience and high end systems is stark and much more than that between high end and those that are merely capable.
If one can still enjoy music at home it is because the brain compensates for this difference - if you let it. And compensating for the second difference is much less of a stretch than for the first.
Women "get" this right away, I suspect.

As I understand it, Mr Shaw's criteria are not simply that you turn up with two amplifiers and plug them into a test set-up that he/Harbeth provides. Rather you have to provide the whole test set-up yourself, except (I think) for the speakers.

While I can't speak to all his motivations, I know that you just have to turn up with two amplifiers, not the test set up. Harbeth claim to make speakers that are benign loads, needing power deliveries ranging from about 60 wpc to about 150 wpc depending on the model, to perform as designed at up to moderately loud sound levels without getting the amp to clip . Which amplifier isn't relevant, the power delivery rating is - so there also may be a subtle form of speaker marketing here. All I know is that to date no one has turned up.

There also have been other such offers by other people, and no black swan has turned up.

Based on how many times I have fooled myself to justify amp changes, expensive heavy DACs, and allied stuff in the past, I now prefer to apply the DBT route, even if imperfectly done at home, to evaluate equipment changes. Most of the time I don't bother now, where equipment is in good working order.

While I can't speak to all his motivations, I know that you just have to turn up with two amplifiers, not the test set up. Harbeth claim to make speakers that are benign loads, needing power deliveries ranging from about 60 wpc to about 150 wpc depending on the model, to perform as designed at up to moderately loud sound levels without getting the amp to clip . Which amplifier isn't relevant, the power delivery rating is - so there also may be a subtle form of speaker marketing here. All I know is that to date no one has turned up.

There also have been other such offers by other people, and no black swan has turned up.

Based on how many times I have fooled myself to justify amp changes, expensive heavy DACs, and allied stuff in the past, I now prefer to apply the DBT route, even if imperfectly done at home, to evaluate equipment changes. Most of the time I don't bother now, where equipment is in good working order.

The Amazing Randi offered $1 million U.S. to an audiophile journalist if he could distinguish between low price speaker leads and a set costing $7000+. The challenge was agreed to, then both the journalist and the cable manufacturer backed out.

Worst. Thread. Ever.
You think?:D. Have you seen the 24/96 thread?!

While I can't speak to all his motivations, I know that you just have to turn up with two amplifiers, not the test set up.

Not according to this article in Stereophile, which quotes the challenge Mr Shaw laid down. His challenge includes the following (verbatim):

However, I don't have the time to play around. You have to conceive of the test, design the switch over system and bring it to us here and we'll cooperate fully.